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1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

 

Again Mike.  How many parents?  Where do you get £800 from?  It would be helpful if you could tell us.

One or two parents, no matter

 Weekly rates high level are mobilty & care components total. £145.35p per week plus Carer's allowance of £64.60p per week making a total weekly payment of £209.95p

 

This information is readily available anywhere on line.

n addition to this tax free benefit there is free travel available on buses & trams & ferries & trains in some areas also Blue Badge availability too.

 

Subsidised car leasing with free road tax & insurance etc. via the Motorbility scheme.

I'm all in favour of supporting genuine people with a genuine disability / mental health issue but there are those who like to bleed the system if they can get away with it. I personally know of some of these who blag the system & get away with it.

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Although we dont live in the UK and it may be a different point of view. Here over the years employment or the lack of it has been very different to that in UK. My husband has worked since he was

I used to be called Victor Meldrew at work so I have been mostly avoiding this thread until now but here are a few things that really pee me off:   # Drivers who don't acknowledge you when y

T'was the night before Christmas and Santa's a wreck... How to live in a world that's politically correct? His workers no longer would answer to "Elves," "Vertically Challenged" they were call

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Those of us born from the late 40s to the 60s have been blessed. We have been able to achieve things our parents were not, in many cases. University, good health for which we didn't have to pay privately, affordable mortgages to enable home ownership, employment and the chance to save.  Some of us, myself included, now have pension ages of 66 but, if we've been careful, are able to retire before this.

 

The younger generation sometimes looks at us enviously, perhaps, but we didn't achieve any of it without hard work. Certainly, nothing was ever handed to me on a plate and I wouldn't expect it to be.

 

We've been lucky.

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The other advantage we older ones have is that we know how to economist when needed. Unless they can shove it in the microwave or have it delivered a lot of the younger generation wouldn't be able to feed themselves. Instead of the schools pushing the modern subjects like social studies and dramatic art they would be better off teaching basic human survival and the essentials of life.

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I agree with your sentiments entirely Jill I'm glad I was a 50s baby not a Millennial !

As far as employment goes we were made but we were always underpaid.

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Mike, of course there are some who 'play' the system. Bottom line though surely is that there are tough rules surrounding all benefits and and actual fraud is pretty low. Any other 'inappropriate' payment of benefits is most likely to be caused by poor administration, which results from the incessant cuts made by Govt. into not only benefits, but the offices and staff who administer them.  The whole system is clearly in crisis, which is why that (insert expletive of your choice) Esther McVey got herself tangled up in lies last week and should be sacked... again...

 

This below from:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_fraud_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

 

Quote

 

Definition of benefit fraud

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) define benefit fraud as when someone obtains state benefit they are not entitled to or deliberately fails to report a change in their personal circumstances. The DWP claim that fraudulent benefit claims amounted to around £900 million in 2008–09.[1]

The most common form of benefit fraud is when a person receives benefits, but continues or begins employment. Another common form of fraud is when the receivers of benefits claim that they live alone, but they are financially supported by a partner or spouse.

In 2002, the DWP launched a 'Targeting Benefit Thieves' advertising campaign to spread their message that benefit fraud carried a criminal sanction. The most recent campaign makes claims about the likelihood of getting caught and the consequences of committing benefit fraud using ‘And they thought they’d never be caught’ as the leading slogan.

Examples of alleged benefit fraud

In recent years the term benefit fraud has been used by the DWP to encompass a wider range of behaviours, beyond simultaneously claiming unemployment benefit whilst working in the informal labour market. Their 2007 'No ifs, No buts' campaign emphasised other activities that could lead to prosecution. This includes failing to inform the state that your partner is now living with you, or that you have moved house, or that a relative has died, leaving you some money.[2]

Since the introduction of the Welfare Reform Act 2007, councils can now independently investigate a number of Social Security benefits.

Public opinion on benefit fraud

The State of the Nation report published in 2010 by the Government of David Cameron estimated the total benefit fraud in the United Kingdom in 2009/10 to be approximately £1 billion.[3] Figures from the Department for Work and Pensions show that benefit fraud is thought to have cost taxpayers £1.2 billion during 2012–13, up 9 per cent on the year before.[4] A poll conducted by the Trades Union Congress in 2012 found that perceptions among the British public were that benefit fraud was high – on average people thought that 27% of the British welfare budget is claimed fraudulently;[5] however, official UK Government figures have stated that the proportion of fraud stands at 0.7% of the total welfare budget in 2011/12.[6]

Claims of disproportionality

The political scientist Adam Taylor claimed that the targeting of benefit fraud was disproportionate and was evidence of "government using strong-arm tactics on the weakest members of British society": the disabled and the poor.[7] Taylor argued that the amount of money lost to false benefit claims was small compared to the huge amount lost to tax fraud which he estimated as costing the UK economy £150bn (this compares to the HMRC estimate of £4.1bn[8]), yet he believed that comparatively little and in most cases nothing at all was done to pursue corporate tax evaders who defraud the people of the UK. Taylor argued that the crucial difference between these two practices is that "the former is committed by the weakest and most vulnerable of society, while the far more damaging crime is being committed by the richest (and the most corrupt traitors) in the UK."[7]

 


 

 

I'd go further than Taylor, quoted in the lasta para. above and say that in my opinion, whilst it is right (of course) to target and prevent deliberate fraud, the present Govt. has deliberately and cynically used the whole idea of benefits as both an excuse for cuts, but also a deliberate way to drive a divisive 'wedge' into society, which sets one sector against the other.. feeds off misinformation, rumour and prejudice, and ultimately diverts public attention from what Govt. is really up to.  Classic 'divide and rule' tactics and the 'Great British Public' fall for it hook line and sinker every time.

 

Col

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1 hour ago, FLY2 said:

We'll never resolve this problem on here, as its far too complex. Also, as the majority of us on here are well over 60, and totally entrenched in our views, there's minimal chance of anyone changing their minds.

It's mainly down to parenting, as the blinkered working class ideals of the post war period were eroded by more wealth and affluence.

However, the yobs of the 50's produced yobs, who in turn produced further yobs, and so it goes on. 

Of course, there's bad education, peer influence, born plain evil etc. Then there are cuts by various governments over the last twenty odd years which haven't helped. Ignoring mental defects, it's basically down to good parenting.

Certainly more overall discipline wouldn't go amiss.

 

Of course we won't Fly.  But It's nice to see a debate where views are sincerely put and nobody ( so far) has taken it personally.  The standard is also much higher than the frequent "Black is White.. that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it!" sort of rubbish which pops up here too often.

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I'm not going to start copying & pasting every available document on the internet Col. There are plenty of people creeping under the radar regarding benefits, not all fraudulent claims but having a easy assessment for benefits where mental health is a problem. Not always easy to disprove in fact a Snowflakes dream.

Anway there are plenty of corrupt MPs around anyway !

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1 hour ago, Jill Sparrow said:

The young of today have it rough? Perhaps they do. What about our parents who lived through the 20s and 30s, years of depression, unemployment, no social care, no NHS, no job seekers' allowance. When they reached 18, they were conscripted to fight in a war from which many didn't return and others were scarred for life.

 

Then they faced years of rationing, food, clothes and everything else. When they married, they couldn't afford mortgages or rent so many lived with their parents for years in cramped, unfit conditions. They had fathers who had lived through even worse during 1914-18.

 

The young folk today may have it tough but they aren't the first...they probably won't be the last either!

 

What you say is of course correct.  We are also already seeing elements within Govt. attempting to create the impression that young people today are struggling because we 'baby boomers' have eaten all the pies and have now closed the pie shop.  This is of course just another Govt. diversionary tactic to support both pension cuts and the notion that it is anybody's fault but their own...

 

In the wider sense, society has changed hugely since 1914.  There used to be a relatively small 'upper class' lording over a huge working/lower class.  Most of the latter worked.  They had little choice or alternative, unless of course the Upper Classes decided to bugger up the ecomomy, start a war etc.  Up until maybe the 70's the bulk of the UK was working class.. and there was work, until the Upper Classes and the politicians decided that there wouldn't be..rthen set about blaming the victims.

 

40 years on and we see a much bigger gap between the have's and the have nots.  The North South Divide and the Rich Poor Divide are very apparent.  It is not surprising given this  real injustice, that there is a real sense of injustice among many at the bottom. the problem IMHO, is that the victims are encouraged to blame other sections of society  ( The old, the young, the unemployed, immigrants, etc., etc.) for their problems, rather than placing blame where it really lies.....  With Governments and the International Corporate/ Media Cabal which pulls their strings.

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Well, I said I wouldn't say nowt else but ya'll know me.  I can't resist another bark.

 

First I think there are some good posts here which show us Nottstalgians can have a respectful discussion.  Couple of things.

 

1. The news media is notorious for picking out the most extreme situations and then getting their facts wrong even on these.

 

2. Personal experience.... When my second daughter was born, we soon observed after a few months that she was not a happy child like the first one.  She seemed to have a short attention span,. Cried a lot.  Easily got angry, didn't seem to have normal sleep patterns.  My wife discussed it with the Doctor who recommended a guy at the children's hospital.  With very little investigation this guy decided she was hyperactive.  ADHD today.  He prescribed Ritalin.  Made her like a zombie but it did keep her quiet.  We did not like drugging a nine month old!

 

 

My late wife being the academic type did some pretty heavy research on this issue and decided that the problem could be artificial food colours and  flavours.   We took her off the drug and the old behaviour returned after a day or two.  Then Janet read the labels on all foods and removed anything containing artificial colours etc.. A couple of days later I came home from work and thought she had swapped her for a different kid.  Quiet, happily playing with her toys and no longer whiny (Mardy).  After this she lived a normal life.  We did find that some perfumes could set her off as well.  My wife joined up with another group who had found out the same things with their kids.

 

A Dr. In the US wrote a book on the topic and developed a diet. (The Feingold diet). This book has helped many folks.

 

I ask ask myself what would have happened to this little girl, who is now a normal adult, if the late Mrs L had not done her homework.

 

Could this then be a factor in many behavioral problems today and could be why we saw less of it fifty years ago.

 

I think we would all agree that many kids today just about exist on junk food because mom can't or doesn't want to cook a natural nutritious meal.

 

I am not suggesting that this I the only cause of problems either, but it does need looking at before we turn to drug therapy.  Needless to say the big food conglomerates don't like it and try to discredit it.

 

BTW.  As a family we all got of the artificial stuff as much as we could and we all felt better for it.  I suspect it could be at the root of many medical and behavioral issues.

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Jill, I would have given you a like, except for the last sentence. I don't think luck has anything to do with it. It was a time of full employment, and everyone was eager to leave school, and start on the long road of adult life.

I personally have worked every hour God sent from 16 - 65. Rented a house first, two kids, buying our first terraced house, then on a modern estate, a country cottage and so on. I've never had a brand new car. My current one is over ten years old, and has done nearly 120k miles. 

I live relatively comfortably and have no debts.

Lucky, no, I don't think so. Just reasonably well educated, a realistic view of things, and a low tolerance of leeches, parasites, druggies, theft and other unsociable activities. 

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A very good friend  of mine had a son who was an absolute nightmare, when ever they came to our house if I saw them in time I would be tempted to hide under the kitchen table ! I remember on one visit he sat quietly & unbeknown to anyone dismantled a double electrical socket in my living room until he got a 240v kick he was quiet that is.

 this lad had serious problems & was referred by his GP to see a consultant at the QMC, all whet he needed was a diet change he said. This was rigidly carried out, remember those naughty E numbers, all left out with no fizzy drinks etc only good wholesome food etc.

The transformation in this lad was incredible & has grown up to be a hard working father of his own two kids. just because his parents took the time & trouble to do something about his behaviour.

 

My suspicion these days is that the benefit system is too generous & too much of a temptation to some unscrupulous parents, again I will say I have no problem with the benefit system if it is shared out like it was supposed to have been, not an easy way of life to some.

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4 hours ago, Jill Sparrow said:

Those of us born from the late 40s to the 60s have been blessed. We have been able to achieve things our parents were not, in many cases. University, good health for which we didn't have to pay privately, affordable mortgages to enable home ownership, employment and the chance to save.  Some of us, myself included, now have pension ages of 66 but, if we've been careful, are able to retire before this.

 

The younger generation sometimes looks at us enviously, perhaps, but we didn't achieve any of it without hard work. Certainly, nothing was ever handed to me on a plate and I wouldn't expect it to be.

 

We've been lucky.

Although we dont live in the UK and it may be a different point of view. Here over the years employment or the lack of it has been very different to that in UK.

My husband has worked since he was 11 yrs old. He was born in Sicily the eldest of 7. . They had a shop but had to sell up as his younger brother developed typhoid and was hospitalised for months. No NH service then. 

They lost everything so when my husband could he left school at 11 (compulsory until at least that age) and went to work with an uncle on a fishing boat. He later worked the fields with builders and shepherds not going home in weeks. When he eventually went home he found work with a building site, come pay day he was expected to kiss the hand of the " boss" he refused. His mother said he had to do it but he was adament  that was what  he wasn't going to do. When he was a bit older the role of provider arose as his father was unemployed . He tried every way he could to get a decent job but coming up from Sicily to Piemonte he came upon problems. In those days sicilians werent  welcome and made no bones about telling them so. He went into the oldest bar in this village and they threw him out. ( quietly telling himself he would buy it one day)

However he did manage eventuall y to get a job  and when he could he made the decision to try in UK and ended up in Jersey from there to Nottm. We had only been married a few years when he opened his first restaurant. After that he opened 4 more. We returned to Italy in 2000 and he bought the bar as he said he would.

So after a very traumatic beginning he succeded and I'm very proud of him. So if someone is determined to work hard they will work. Jobs dont fall off trees you have to search for them as theres always a job how ever humble.

Theres no dole money here. Study study study is the norm here but then at the end students cant find jobs. Many will do bar work or waitering , builders mates etc anything that brings in money. There arent many youngsters that live off their parents because many dont have the earnings to support them.

Sorry Ive gone on a bit but I think some youngster s think they must have everything on a plate.

My husband hasnt a degree but hes been very successful in other ways. Hes very hard working. Well respected in Nottingham. He helped our daughter getting her restaurant on its feet and also my sons restaurant. Hes still there now and for the last 2 years he keeps saying I'll call it a day. He loves the work and I wonder if he ever will retire.

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Yes, so many things that were not available to us fifty years ago. As well as artificial coloroungs and flavourings, smart phones and tablets.  24 hour tv.  Many more violent and sexually explicit movies, the Internet. 

A politically correct system that refuses to call anything wrong.

 

There are other issues, but they would be considered religious so in the interests of peace I won't go there.  If you want to pursue that you'll have to pm me.

 

in our responses.  As someone mentioned earlier, most of us here are in middle to older age.  We mostly grew up what would be considered poor today.  Our idea of games was playing outside with the other kids.  We mostly respected our parents even if we didn't like their rules.  As a result we tend to hold a position that strict discipline will solve the problems.  I remember in our school the worst crime was a crafty smoke in the bogs.  That could bring a public caning.  Sounds trivial compared to today's problems.

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Problem is that not only do they expect it on a plate they get it. Menial jobs are beneath them and then they complain about being bored. I have a mate who can't get a job who has this attitude and doesn't want to put himself out. As I have pointed out to him more than once any job is better than no job and pays more than basic dole. If you do not like your job there is nothing stopping you looking for another one but don't jump ship until you get something else. The nanny state culture has got a lot to answer for, a lot of people lose sight of the fact it is their responsibility to support themselves in the long term, nobody else's. If they have genuine problems fair enough but a lot are just bone idle.

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What I like more than anything else about this discussion is that we can actually do it.  We can have an intelligent discussion where we don't agree on everything, but can each put our point of view without falling out.  To me, this is a HUGE step forward from what I have seen previously on here.  I was, frankly, fed up of 'walking on eggshells'.

 

I'm pretty sure that we've all had our hard times, been hardworking, determined to succeed, etc.  We will have all 'come at it' from different perspectives, and maybe therefore developed different opinions, but I think there is more to unite us than divide us.

 

 

 

 

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Beautiful hot sunny day. My daughter and I set about clearing the mess left from the builder, sand and gravel every where even in the pool.  Its finished albeit for the tiling around and someone coming tomorrow to see to the elettrolisi for the salt water that apparently turns it into a form of chloro so after the clean up we deserved a swim , it was sheer heaven. Water comes up to my chin so it cooled me down perfectly. Did 12-14 lengths so it put my back into some sort of comfort. The best part was whilst swimming a swallow swooped down to drink and I could feel its wings on my face. Going out again tonight when its dark.Hope theres no bats around.

 

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We've all cursed drivers who don't indicate, but I was very nearly wiped out exiting Tescos this morning. I drove down the slope, indicating to turn left. A young twerp in an old Astra came racing up from my right, and was indicating to turn left into Tescos. I pulled out slightly, then noticed he wasn't slowing, so luckily I stopped. He raced by infront of me still indicating left, and missed my front by the thickness of my number plate. I gave some good old Anglo Saxon, and hoots, but he  left me at the lights fuming.

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Which reminds me of an incident the other evening. I was driving along Mansfield Road from Sherwood towards Valley Road. The traffic lights at Woodthorpe Drive were on green for me so I sailed through, (within the speed limit as I had a speeding ticket there a few months ago!) out of nowhere about 4 motorbikes, without number plates or helmets,  zoomed out of Woodthorpe Drive right in front of me, then turned off left into an estate.  Must admit it shook me a bit but what annoyed me was that these idiots are amongst us all the time and they’re getting away with doing wheelies through Sherwood and Mapperley Top regularly.  Unless the local cops have motorbikes there is no way they’ll get punished.  

 

 

 

 

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Sad. I don't think Nottingham has a Traffic Division these days. Not that they'd do much if we did have one.

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Idiot drivers have always annoyed me........wife tells me ignore...which mostly i do,,but a few years ago i was taking daughter to work in a crappy car which was hers lol,, when a bloke in a big flash 4 wheeler got up me ass flashing and hooting.in Bulwell........eventually over took me and slammed brakes on, he got out and come storming towards me,,little fat twat,, i chinned him, thru him back in his car then did several dints with my boots in his prised motor,,he screamed ive got your number and am getting the Police............police visited me  and said well done he asked for it''........no action taken,,small man with oversized ego because he drove top of the range motor..........pillock...........

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