Recommended Posts

I'm like you ayeup. I have little to no confidence in the medical profession.

Just read of a guy in our local paper who developed a brain tumor. He had surgery, radiation, chemo, the works. He has now been sent home and given TWO weeks to get his affairs in order.

The answer to cancer seems to be poison, slash, and burn and when that fails as it almost always does. Tough luck! The medics have made their money.

If I ever come down with that dread disease, I will try natural cures while possibly taking meds to control any pain. If that doesn't work so be it I'm ready to go. The cure seems to be worse than the disease.

Does anyone remember how things were in the UK before the NHS. I seem to remember my grandparents talking about paying the doctor years ago but I was only a kid so did not pay much attention. I do not seem to have heard about doctor visits bankrupting anyone in the UK in years gone by.

Maybe I should start a separate thread.

Dave

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 131
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Enjoyed y'all's replies:  I think we have been able to discuss this without getting nasty political.   I don't think it is political to say I do not think Mr. Trump had a fair shake from the

No real desire to visit America...........except perhaps couple of days in New York and some of the old west........but thinking about it most of us grew up watching American TV series and films......

If Nottingham folks have questions, or relatives, or observations about Nottingham / US connections I don't think the thread has reached its end.  The election is over.  Mr Trump won.  The media of bo

I'm like you ayeup. I have little to no confidence in the medical profession.

Just read of a guy in our local paper who developed a brain tumor. He had surgery, radiation, chemo, the works. He has now been sent home and given TWO weeks to get his affairs in order.

The answer to cancer seems to be poison, slash, and burn and when that fails as it almost always does. Tough luck! The medics have made their money.

If I ever come down with that dread disease, I will try natural cures while possibly taking meds to control any pain. If that doesn't work so be it I'm ready to go. The cure seems to be worse than the disease.

Does anyone remember how things were in the UK before the NHS. I seem to remember my grandparents talking about paying the doctor years ago but I was only a kid so did not pay much attention. I do not seem to have heard about doctor visits bankrupting anyone in the UK in years gone by.

Maybe I should start a separate thread.

Dave

I can understand exactly how you feel LL and in some ways I share a lot of your reservations. Sometimes that hard, hard cure does work though. A friend of mine in the States is celebrating five years from ending his Chemotherapy and Radiotherapy treatment for cancer over there. His is a truly remarkable and inspirational story worth a look at.

A Special Day: James Murtha

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ayup and Loppylugs,

You have both raised very valid points. I am a very slow typist and it would take me days to write a full reply.Suffice to say`alternative doctors/naturopaths are in my opinion `quacks' who merely delay diagnosis, or once a person has delayed diagnosis themselves by not attending their doctor early enough ,prevent proper treatment. The quacks then take over again with their useless remedies.

Treatment of cancer especially in the early stages has improved out of all recognition. Indeed some,e.g. cervical cancer can be prevented by vaccination. It is impossible to explain to the average layman the vast increases in understanding of advances over the last 50 years.

In answer to Loppy,I can remember the time when we would pay 6 pence to visit our local family doctor in St. Anns before the worst disaster ever to hit the UK,i.e. the Socialist welfare system and the appalling NHS.

A large number of cancers are now `cured' if caught early. Other cancers are preventable due to increased understanding,e.g. asbestos related cancers,smoking and alcohol related cancers. In time the vast complexities of cancer will be understood and prevented/treated.

I do not pretend to understand the brilliance of the scientists working on NASA`s space research, may I respectfully suggest you may not understand the complexities of modern medical care.

Finally ,sorry to hear about your awful problem with Lyme disease Ayup. It is a poorly understood and only recently described problem.

The full syndrome now known as Lyme disease was not recognized until a cluster of cases originally thought to be juvenile rheumatoid arthritis was identified in three towns in southeastern Connecticut in 1975, including the towns Lyme and Old Lyme, which gave the disease its popular name. This was investigated by Dr. David Snydman and Dr. Allen Steere of the Epidemic Intelligence Service, and by others from Yale University. The recognition that the patients in the United States had EM led to the recognition that "Lyme arthritis" was one manifestation of the same tick-borne condition known in Europe.

I will stop now as my fingers are down to the bone.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Stan, you should read Dr Lorraine Day's web page, she is a Professor of Orthopedic Surgery at a California teaching hospital. She is at the top of her profession and teaches alternative medicine. Not exactly a quack or charlaton.

She had breast cancer, her collegues urged her to have a total mastectomy, chemo etc. She refused all invasive surgery, chemicals and radiation etc and went her own way. A picture of the tumour is on her web page! She doesn't believe germs cause illness's, she believes the bodies defences being low cause the illness and the immune system needs boosting.

Andrew Weil (sp) is also a highly respected MD who treats people with alternative style medicine, he has successfully "cured" aids patients, cancer patients who the medical profession has given up on. He maintains he didn't cure anyone, but that the patient did it themselves with a change in lifestyle, diet etc..

There are many Doctors of medicine who don't go along with mainstream licensed drug dealers or the establishment.

My own wife wouldn't be here if she'd adhered to her own Doctor, luckily her Doc went on maternity leave and she was being seen by a stand in Doctor who recognised her problem with artificial hormones and advised her to use herbal suppliments, which to this day are still working extremely well after about 12 years of using them. I know when she hasn't been taking them too!

American Indians, both north and south, African bushmen have been using natural methods and herbal treatments for thousands of years successfully, many of these remedies are only just being understood. But synthesizing them loses something and they are never as potent as the real ones.

Asprin came from American Indians, Curare from the South American Indians, both invaluable drugs.

We prefer to "amputate the leg" rather than cut the ingrown nail these days Stan. The key to curing illness is not to poison the body, but to find out why the body became ill, and correct the shortcomings.

Are you aware the actual treatment for aids kills the patient????

There was a Doctor in Texas who had a cure for cancer, he specialised in brain tumours. He had an almost 100% cure rate too! He's doing time in prison right now because he was too successful and wasn't using big pharma's drugs! Shameful isn't it! BUT, government has to protect it's most powerful lobbyist, the Pharmacutical and establishment medical industry. Both these industries make billions a year out of human suffering.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a good friend in Nottingham some years ago.

Abdul Shakoor, He lived at Lenton, an electronics engineer.

I visited him on a number of occassions at his home, and was

always made to feel very important.

Asian families often keep their front rooms special, like our parents used to.

I was always seated in the front room, and tea was brought.

Abdul took a risk and invested money by buying the old Coop Supermarket

on Church Square Lenton.

The last time I saw him his eyes were very yellow, and he stated he was ill and taking treatment.

It was some months before I returned to his supermarket, to be told by his relatives that sadly he had died.

This was a great shock to me, as he was a guy I respected for his hard work, and respectability.

A couple of years later, by chance, I caught sight of a TV documentary about him.

He was treated by a Chinese herbalist and given stuff to boil up and drink.

Not only was the concoction not doing his condition any good, but it was poisoning him as well!

Abdul died in his mid 30's!

RIP Abdul.

Hey! I just found this on Wikipedia!

Shakoor v. Situ

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

Shakoor v. Situ (t/a Eternal Health Co) [2000] 4 All ER 181; [2001] 1 W.L.R. 410; (2001) 57 B.M.L.R. 178; Independent, May 25, 2000; is a first instance case in English tort law on the standard of care appropriate for an alternative medicine practitioner. Its controversial ruling elaborates on the "responsible body of medical men" test from Bolam v. Friern Hospital Management Committee.

Facts

Mr Abdul Shakoor went to a Nottingham based Chinese herbalist, which traded as the "Eternal Health Co."[1] Mr Kang Situ, who ran the herbalist had trained for five years in China, gaining both a traditional "medicine" and "modern" medical qualifications. His grade was "excellent". He had no British professional medical qualifications. In November 1994, Mr Situ prescribed a course of Chinese herbal remedies for Mr Shakoor's benign lipomata, a skin condition, which produces fatty tissue that lies just below the skin, but causes no risk to health. There is no treatment in the UK, except surgical removal. Mr Shakoor was given a mix of twelve herbs in ten sachets which were to be taken on alternate days after a meal. After nine doses Mr Shakoor got ill, nauseas, his eyes went yellow and he suffered heartburt. He vomited, and had abdominal pain. He went to hospital, and was diagnosed as having "probably hepatitis A". His liver failed, he had hepatic necrosis. He had an operation, but he died in January 1995. In the post-mortem, his liver was found to contain Bai Xian Pi, or dictamnus dasycarpus, which some evidence suggested could be hepatotoxic.

Judgment

Bernard Livesey QC found that there was no way to establish that the herbs could be known to contain toxic substances. Yet on the balance of probabilities, the herbal concoction was the cause of death. It was held that Mr Shakoor had an "idiosyncratic" reaction, a rare and unlucky allergic response to the herbal mix. He noted,

"unlike some alternative therapies, TCHM has a long and distinguished history; it has an oral tradition extending back some 4,000 years or more and a written tradition extending back some 2,000 years. It is practised alongside modern medicine in China and accordingly, I am told, a larger proportion of the world's population is treated by it than is treated by modern or western medicine. However, I learned little during the course of this trial as to the extent of current teaching, research, monitoring and verification of its practices in China or elsewhere."[2]

He considered the argument that a herbalist should be held to the same standard as a normal NHS doctor, but disagreed.

"The Chinese herbalist, for example, does not hold himself out as a practitioner of orthodox medicine. More particularly, the patient has usually had the choice of going to an orthodox practitioner but has rejected him in favour of the alternative practitioner for reasons personal and best known to himself and almost certainly at some personal financial cost. Those reasons may include a passionate belief in the superiority of the alternative therapy or a fear of surgery or of reliance (perhaps dependence) on orthodox chemical medications which may have known undesirable side effects either short- or long-term or both.[3]

So long, said Livesey QC, as the herbalist complies with the UK's laws, does not prescribe prohibited or regulated substances under the Pharmacy and Poisons Act 1933, the Medicines Act 1968 or the Abortion Act 1967, so long as the herbalist takes steps to keep abreast of pertinent information in the "orthodox" medical journals, it is appropriate to hold his standard of care to that of what a reasonable herbalist would do. In this case the prescription had not been inappropriate for a reasonable herbalist, and accordingly Mr Situ of the Eternal Health Co. was not liable for the death of Mr Shakoor.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Stan, Lyme CAN lead to arthritis, it isn't arthritis in itself. It's a bacteria that has the ability to disguise itself, hence why the immune system doesn't deal with it.

It causes inflamation of all the major joints, tendons and muscle groups, hence the extreme pain we suffer with it. The bacteria is related to the syphillis strain, it even resembles it under the microscope.

The vector for it are ANY biting insects, not just the deer tick of North America or sheep tick of Europe. It was disputed for many years that anything other than a bite from a tick was responsible. It was also put about that a tick had to be on the host for several hours to infect them, rubbish! As soon as the insect bites, the host is infected! Now established fact!

It has also been proven by vets and dog breeders that Lyme is an STD, passed on from dog to bitch in mating and also to the pups via the placenta.

In America, Lyme was almost unknown before the mid 1970's, nobody knows why, a theory could be that around that period the medical profession decided we were using too much salt in our diets and we cut down on it's usage. Know fact, people with high salt usage are less likely to contract Lyme!

One cure being investigated by the medical profession right now is the Salt/C regimen invented by a Canadian Pharmacist. 1 gram of salt in water with 100mgs of vitamin C every hour for 12 hours spread over three days, using plenty of water to re hydrate the body.

This is the one that helped me. It works too!

Other than that, there is nothing the medical profession can do for us.

My first symptoms, and I have never had a tick on me for more than a few minutes! were extreme ear ache, I'd already had periods of stiff upper arms, (tendons) and wrist tendonitis, and stiff knees. My Doc if he'd questioned me would have put two and two together, that was well over ten years back now.

Because I had a strong immune system, all I got after that was swelling of the knees, thought it was an old mining injury haunting me, continual yearly stiff upper arms. Then 18 months back the lot hit me in one go, plus many of the other classic Lyme symtoms, anorexia, which took me pretty close to meeting my maker! I could hardly walk, couldn't dress myself, had to have help getting out of bed, on the loo and off it, in and out of a chair. The pain was excrutiating.

This disease is now in epidemic proportions worldwide.

On Youtube is an interview with a young lady in Nottingham who has it, the interview is by the BBC.

Go to Youtube and keywords are Lyme disease.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Over the last few years Mick, many drugs have been taken off the market over here because the caused illness and or death. All those prescribed by a licensed drug dealer and passed by the FDA as safe for use.

I have no faith in the bought out licensed drug dealers or the FDA who just seem to rubber stamp every new drug placed before them by the pharmcutical companies

Now if a fracture my leg, thats a different matter, but no drugs please!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ayup, you obviously are deeply committed to your opinions(as you have every right to be) and nothing I say will change them. Its rather like people brainwashed by religious or political belief of any type. It is very difficult or impossible to alter it.

In the case of your fractured leg. I well remember a friend and my C.O (a Brigade commander) who after jumping from a plane,fractured his leg. Had he been given rat poison,he would probably have survived(he died from an embolus from his leg to his lung) Rat poison(warfarin) was the second part of his treatment-no use just fixing the fracture, you have to fix the whole person with the help of drugs.

No doubt the other 2 poisons (Curare and Asprin) you mentioned would have also helped his cure( Curare during his anaesthetic to fix the leg,and asprin for pain and thinning his blood) Both poisons have been carefully purified and therapeutic doses evaluated by the dreadful medical con men.!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Stay Away from Dr. Lorraine Day

Stephen Barrett, M.D.

Lorraine Jeanette Day, M.D., would like you to believe that she has discovered the answer to cancer. She would also like you to believe that her experience as a patient has qualified her to give advice about cancer. She warns people not to trust the medical profession and claims that all drugs can cause cancer. Her Web site states that "the entire foundation of conventional medicine is based on ERROR." [1] Her videotapes state that standard cancer treatment has never cured anyone and that nobody should undergo chemotherapy and radiation for any cancer [2]. She claims that (a) all cancers are essentially the same; (b) the basic cause is weakness of the immune system; and © her diet-centered program cures people by strengthening their immune system [2]. She states that, "All diseases are caused by a combination of three factors: malnutrition, dehydration, and stress." [3] She tells people that, "Drugs never cure disease; they only change the form and location of the disease." [4] She claims that "sugar is as addictive as cocaine" and paralyzes the immune system for four hours" after eating it [4]. She claims that "osteoporosis is not caused by lack of calcium" and that "the more milk you drink, the more osteoporotic you become." [4] She spouts long lists of health problems that she claims are caused by commonly used foods and drugs [4]. She also advises against vaccination [5] and the use of standard treatment for Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder [6]. She speaks eloquently and from the heart, but her tapes contain hundreds of factual errors and far-fetched claims. In my opinion, her advice is untrustworthy and is particularly dangerous to people with cancer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Alternative Explanations?

Are there other possible explanations for what happened to Dr. Day? The simplest possibility is that her cancer was not aggressive and was entirely removed by surgery, and that the rest of her problems were emotional. She withdrew from ordinary living for several years, during which time she spent many months in bed and was fearful, depressed, and in pain. Withdrawal is a symptom of major depression. She also exhibits grandiosity ("I know more than other doctors"), messianic feelings ("I can cure the world"), and unrealistic fears (all drugs are so dangerous that it pays to risk one's life to avoid them). She indicates that her methods developed through a combination of study, religious faith, revelation, and anonymous letters sent through the mail.

Day appears to be absolutely certain that she is correct and—in effect—knows more than the vast majority of cancer specialists. This degree of certainty is not unusual among claimants to miraculous cures for serious diseases. These people often think clearly about most things but have a circumscribed set of beliefs that are not modifiable by contrary evidence. They may also go through a mental struggle that ends when their misbeliefs "crystallize" and stop interfering with day-to-day functioning. That is my educated guess about what happened to Dr. Day.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Because Dr Day "rocked the boat" she has received tons of flack Stan. Her Mother was a diabetic with serious arthritis, she used alternative medicine with her, she shows no signs of arthritis and has returned to a none diabetic lifestyle once more. Both the media and the pharmacutical industry has attacked her as she poses a serious risk to their profits Stan.

The whole system of medicine is based on profit here in the states, nothing like the UK NHS system. Beware though, as the NHS is dismantled, you will be in for what we get!

Two instances, my Son lived with us for a year before returning to California. He suffered severe migrains and I said he should see a Doctor, he told me he had in California, they couldn't find anything wrong.

It was by accident I found what may be ailing him, toxic heavy metal poisoning! While he was helping me, I gave him some gloves to handle some treated lumber, pressure treated stuff, loaded with arsenic! Nahh I'm alright, worked for years with this stuff in California without gloves. What about a mask when you cut it, nope he said, and I'll bet you never washed your hands when you smoked and when yopu had yer snap, s'right he said! When you get back, get a blood test for arsenic poisoning I told him! Migrains are classic symptoms of it.

I also told him when I worked at Renison Bell, we'd get fired on the spot if caught smoking or eating in the process plant as there was arsenic in the ore.

My Doctor in California found I had high BP, so told me he was going to put me on medication if it was that high when I went back in two weeks.

I spent two weeks building an exercise regimine up, tem mins to an hour a day on an exercise machine, plus walking briskly up a hill daily.

When I went back he wasn't happy with me! He snarled when I asked if my BP was normal and snapped, it's normal! WHY DIDN'T HE SUGGEST EXERCISE???? If I'd gone on medication, I'd have been on it for life!

No, I don't trust Doctors over here Stan, they are corrupt money hungry mongrels on the whole. Some are OK, but they are the minority unfortunately.

Like I say, wait until the NHS has been dismantled and the Docs get a taste for the bonus kick backs they get for prescribing big pharma drugs all the time.

Drugs have their place, but so does exercise, vitamin and mineral suppliments and a healthy immune system, and lets not forget, a low fat diet and sensible eating.

Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all Stan and Eyeup let me say what a pleasure it is to be able to discuss a subject which is quite emotive and on which folks tend to have strong opinions and remain civil and pleasant. On many similar sites such topics could get quite unpleasant.

Sorry Mick,we have really hijacked your thread I'm afraid as it was really about moving to America.

I respect the fact that there are many in the medical profession who are well meaning people who are trying to help those who are sick. They do so in the way in which they have been trained to do through medical school.

Those in the alternative medical field also believe very strongly in the techniques which they have learned. I believe there is room for both.

The problem begins when any one group becomes dogmatic and ridicules or tries to forcibly restrain the other through legal or other means.

It is really not so long ago that many women were dying in childbirth because of infection. Those who stated that the problem was caused by germs were ridiculed and just about run out of the profession if my knowledge of history is correct. However, they were proven correct by the simple expedient of hand-washing.

The other issue particularly here in the US becomes the profit motive. As soon as big money enters the picture watch out.

Like you eyeup I was diagnosed with high blood pressure, not too long after moving to the US. My Canadian doctor had warned me of this but just said get plenty of exercise and watch your salt intake and weight. (The Canadian system is a lot like the NHS)

I was immediately prescribed an expensive medicine which caused me depression, joint pains etc. I dumped the stuff where the sun don't shine and got plenty of exercise plus got some items out of my diet. This a.m my blood pressure was 117/75.

Recently read that Beet juice is good for this problem but have not tried it yet.

As in all things the truth tends to lie somewhere down the middle I think.

As far as the pharmaceutical industry is concerned I am sure that some of their products are useful to some people. That said we must also remember that they are in this business to make money their primary concern is to sell more and more to keep Wall street happy. Often I'm afraid the welfare of the patient is well down the list.

Cheers

Dave

Link to post
Share on other sites

Have closely read all your excellent lengthy postings...on each contribution the sincerity of your views shines through.

My own posting is to be much more simplistic, perhaps because I sense that I've been luckier than yourselves in avoiding a major illness...up until 10 years ago.

At that time - in quick succession - I was diagnosed as Type 1 diabetic, had a non-functioning kidney removed and sustained two strokes. With the treatment I've received I can have no complaint whatever with our NHS, with the people who staff the hospitals, or GP's surgeries. Certainly on two occasions the skill of the hospital doctors saved my life.

Consequently, you'll appreciate that I'm likely to remain biased in their favour...

Cheers

Robt P.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever you do, don't get me wrong, my alternative is not unqualified people, I'd much prefer an MD who puts the patient ahead of money and treats them like intelligent human beings rather than a thing to test his drugs out on and make a good profit from him/her.

There are many "holistic" alternative thinking MD's out here who cater for people who are sick to death of the system.

There is also a chain of alternative treatment cancer hospitals where the staff will "tailor" the treatment according to the patients. They also use alternative herbal treatments with success too.

It's scary when a Doctor would sooner prescribe very dangerous drugs that once treatment starts has to continue for life when exercise is the far better option though.

I am also peed off that nearly every other advert on the TV is for a prescription drug that relieves "Acid Reflux Disease" when no such disease exist, errr we aren't fick, all we have to do is stop eating fatty foods, eat more fruit and the indegestion will go away naturally.

Then we are advised to ask the Doctor about this new drug thats better than the other male enhancing drug, BUT notify your Doc if you get an erection lasting more than four hours! Risks, heart disease, right kidney liable to drop out, liver might float off in the night and total blindness, please let your Doctor know if any of these symptoms persist! Yeh like I want drugs! !laughing!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just read that Americans are spending $15 billion thats BILLION dollars a year on BP meds.

No wonder the medical profession are so keen to get us locked onto them. And that's only one class of drug.

Oh well! we are about broke anyway so it all may soon become academic.

Guess I'm in a very pessimistic mood tonight. Better take my meds. !sickly!

Loppy.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guess I'm in a very pessimistic mood tonight. Better take my meds. !sickly!

Loppy.

I have some little pink tablets that I feel would do the trick for you loppy, but I have been forced by my MD to take an oath not to divulge thair name. if taken along side alcohol they work double quick, well they do for me!

Bip.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just read that Americans are spending $15 billion thats BILLION dollars a year on BP meds.

No wonder the medical profession are so keen to get us locked onto them. And that's only one class of drug.

Oh well! we are about broke anyway so it all may soon become academic.

Guess I'm in a very pessimistic mood tonight. Better take my meds. !sickly!

Loppy.

Yep, and I wonder how many really need those meds??? Mind you, now they are on the meds, they are stuck for life! http://www.websmileys.com/s

Link to post
Share on other sites
I have some little pink tablets that I feel would do the trick for you loppy, but I have been forced by my MD to take an oath not to divulge thair name. if taken along side alcohol they work double quick, well they do for me!

Bip.

Thanks for the tip BIP I'll keep an eye out for 'em.

Loppy. !cheers!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for the tip BIP I'll keep an eye out for 'em.

Loppy. !cheers!

Your welcome Loppy.....always happy to advise.

Bip.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 years later...

Stapleford also closed.

I have been to Nottingham Derby and Stapleford, always packed.

All the patients will now be at their GPs.

No wonder you cant get an appointment?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I read all of the posts with interest,My own experience was one of complete satisfaction, in respect to the treament and care I received here in the States. I was diagnosed with Renal cancer in late July 04,surgery in late August 04. A large tumor,that had completely enveloped my left kidney,was succesfully removed.No after treatment (radiation) was found to be necessary.

I was monitored 4 times a year,by my Oncologist and Urologist. Two years ago after a bi-yearly MRI, 3 tiny spots appeared on my right lung,they were to small to take a biopsy.After a year one spot had grown large enough to take a biopsy,positive Renal cancer cells.

The rest of my story is posted here on the site. I don't want to bore any of you readers ,just thought I'd add my 'tuppence' worth.

Bryan

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...