Bulwell Common - or is it ?


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Just spent another hour on that site (Test flying memorial) and it's facinating the different amount of types of planes we had back then compared with the multi role planes we have nowadays!!

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You'll cop it, our Ben. Radford Red will be gunning for you! 

The Canberra was operated by Rolls-Royce at Hucknall. This was the first accident involving a Canberra. The test pilot Richard Peach, the only crew member, was killed. Chulla

For the past 60 years or so I have referred to the area of land alongside Hucknall Road (now mostly golf course) as Bulwell Common. (Shown on maps as Bulwell Forest). As have many other local people!

But the City Council say that they have no record of any 'common land' registered in the Bulwell area.

There has certainly been free public access to the area from time immemorial

Understand that the City Council now have sufficient information to officially designate the footpath from the Bestwood Park Drive traffic lights, and leading across Bulwell Common, as a Public Footpath.

But objections have been received, presumably from the Golf Club. This means that the matter may now have to be put to an (expensive) Public Enquiry, and the Council will need evidence in support of the proposal.

Anyone in favour might like to post their views here - with particular reference to the number of years they have used this path, whether they still do so, how they refer to the area in general etc.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Yes, I recall the Canberra crash on the sidings - just south of the station near the Kersall Lane/Hucknall Road overbridge.

At that time the Canberra was the RAF's primary medium range bomber, and still subject to some secrecy.

Can't remember if the crew survived but, IIRC, it was based at RAF Wyton, Cambs.

Cheers

Robt P.

Re the canberra crash, it was june 13th 1951, I remember it coming over claremont primary school with smoke coming from it, the pilot R.H.B Peach a Rolls Royce test pilot actually made it to hucknall with port engine out however trying to land the aircraft stalled he tried to gain height to go round again but after clipping roof of house on st albans road (repaired damage to roof still visable) he crashed into the sidings and was killed

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  • 2 years later...

I had many a crash on " Nicks Hollow " on Bulwell Forest when Sledging as a child , and taking my own son to do the same 20 years later. My Dad was a Railway Guard and used to catch " The Dido " a staff train that took him to Annesly

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The Great Central originally hoped to build their engine sheds at Bulwell, but something stopped them and they went to Annesley. My family always called it the Forest.

What about the rhubarb that was grown where the Laquered knacker was built? (Golden Ball).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Good Evening! A while since I posted here but since I lived on Southglade and spent much time on Bulwell Common, I thought I'd chuck my two penn'orth in. I have a lovely book, 'Railways North of Nottingham in the Latter Days of Steam', by Malcolm Castledine. Book Law Publications Nottm. ISBN 1 901945 33 2 (2004) which has many super pics of Bulwell Common Station, Bulwell Market station Basford Northern and many other places anyone from the area of a certain age will remember. Well worth seeking out.

Re: The plane crash, which I too remember, though only faintly as I was very young., this which I posted on another site:

Tony B. I know Kersall Drive and surrounding areas well. It was young ladies from that area who first distracted from from trains and aeroplanes! I found the ladies more interesting but even harder to catch!

Slightly off topic, but still possibly interesting to others. I worked at the Coal Board Labs in Cinderhill for a few years after leaving school. In the summer months I found a lovely route to work by going from home in Southglade Road, over the Leen Valley Railway at the crossing onto Hucknall Road and then over the old Central Railway via St Albans Rd and the down Kersall and Saxondale drives to ? Can't remember what the main road was called, but I'm talking about where the old Basford Northern station was and the Northern swimming baths.

From there I could get up onto the old viaduct over the Leen. That was a fascinating walk and would bring me scrambling down to Leonard Street, from where I did a quick left and a right into the labs.

Back to Wrigley's (Incidentally, can anybody remember which its was? Wrigley, or Rigley.. I can't.)

I'm not sure if they are still there, but until recently, you could still make out the footings of the old Bulwell Forest Ladies Golf House, opposite the main house and right next to where Wrigley's stood

Just a few memories of the sort of thing that fascinated us as kids…..

Most of my world comprised two fields which ran the length of Southglade. Back then, they formed a broad hollow and then sloped up again to meet the bank which descended from Wrigley's. In the 60s the council decided to use the fields as land fill, with the result that they are now above the level of Southglade Road and built up with the Gala Bingo and a load of unattractive industrial units.

The fields which used to be full of Skylarks, Burnet Moths, all manner of wild flowers (Scabious, Hearts-ease, Scarlet Pimpernel, Speedwell etc.) are now buried up to about fifty feet below the present level. It breaks my heart.

At the bottom of Southglade road, more or less between what used to be the Deerstalker pub,(Now a Nursery I think) and the present Sports Centre, was Gervais Goddard's farm.

He would regularly drive a small horse drawn trap up Southglade and leave milk churns on Hucknall Road, just over the railway crossing.

One beautiful Summer morning I heard a tinkling noise and looked out of the front window to see the horse and trap hurtling past towards the farm. By the time I got to our front gate, all there was to be seen was a trail of crates, bottles and churns all down Southglade and I could just make out the horse and trap at the farm gate at the bottom of the street.

It seems that Farmer Gervais (Jarve.. as we called him) had just arrived at the railway crossing where the Gala is now, when a local train shot by and scared the horse….

Fortunately, the horse (And Jarve) were uninjured.

However. As kids, we regularly crossed the Leen Valley line to access Hucknall Road from Southglade. There were a couple of locked farm type gates used by Jarve, but pedestrians crossed freely and without supervision. There was a small house on the Hucknall Road side, with a little indicator on the wall which read 'Train Approaching' 'Train in Section' etc., though I never worked out exactly what it was supposed to be telling me.

I was warned about trains and their attendant danger. There as a very strong local tale of a girl who supposedly got her foot caught in the gap under the rail and suffered severe injury as the rail dipped up and down under the weight of a passing train, but I never found out what truth there was in it.

Finally, there was the plane crash at Bulwell Common. Just found this:

UK Flight Testing Accidents 1940 – 1971

Has the following entry

13 JUNE 1951 CANBERRA B.1(P) VN850

Mr R.H.B.Peach (Test Pilot), Rolls Royce, Hucknall. Test flight.

Part of 100 hour intensive flying trials on Avon RA7 engines, the starboard engine fitted with high energy ignition. One hour and 22 minutes after take off the pilot advised that the port engine was out and be was unable to re light.

He was cleared for a direct approach to the runway. At about 250ft on finals the aircraft was seen to drop the port wing, the nose then went down, the aircraft turned 45 degrees to port and the undercarriage was retracted but the flaps stayed down.

Climbing slightly and turning slowly to port the aircraft crossed the airfield before dropping the port wing again and the aircraft dived into the St.Alban's railway sidings at Bulwell Common railway station, Nottingham:

The speed had been allowed to become too low on the approach by a pilot inexperienced on type (3.15hrs) and he was unable to use the full thrust of the starboard engine to recover the situation.

It is likely that retraction of the flaps caused the final wing drop and dive. This was the first fatal accident involving a Canberra 1 killed. Cat 5.

(refs 38, 47, 195 & 360).

These references are listed as

38 Canberra – the operational record ISBN 1 – 7183-0619-8

47 English Electric Aircraft and their predecessors ISBN 0-85177-806-2

195 R-R Heritage Trust Archives – Courtesy of David Birch

360 AIB reports various – Contained in PRO AVIA/5 Folders No20 – 38

My only comment is that for the year of 1951 this accident was the 17th out of a total of 34. How times change.

DJ360

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David Birch is me brother. Funny this posting above appearing now, my brother and wife recently went to a Rolls Royce test pilots reunion.

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'DJ360'...Back to Wrigley's (Incidentally, can anybody remember which its was? Wrigley, or Rigley.. I can't.)...

Wrigley's...

Allegedly, stuck repaired wagons back together with chewing gum :rolleyes:

Cheers

Robt P.

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I can't recall it but was told there was another wagon repair works (not sure if owned by Wrigleys) somewhere near where the "Green Barrel" pub was later built, and this works lasted "till the change from wood to steel bodied coal wagons" same old chap also told me (approx 13 years ago) that he still had part of the perspex cockpit from that Canberra, "liberated" the day after the crash. Have read that the GCR had intended to build it's loco shed etc and stabling sidings somewhere alongside what it finished up with at Bulwell so maybe we would never have seen most of "The Common" had they not decided on Annesley as a cheaper option? not sure if planning permission etc needed back then? if so no doubt they would have had such as I guess what was built was originally on part of "Bulwell Common"? In the end they decided the cost of the extra land and esp the water supply needed prohibited this, does make sense as lots of staff houses built in the area, hence the need for the "Dido"?

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Jim Holmes lived next door to us and he worked at Wrigleys Wagon Works , I remember going there as a kid and watching him operating a great big steam hammer banging away on axles or such. Also we went Potatoe picking on Top Valley Farm nearby for a few Coppers. During the war Bulwell Forest was planted with Old Railings in a type of " A " frame , supposedly to stop enemy aircraft making a landing. In around 1954 I was called back on R.A.F. reserve, when we arrived at the Airfield nobody had a clue what to do with us so we spent a lot of time in Dispersal and I manage to scrounge a flight in a Canberra.

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  • 1 year later...

Dear all,

I am working on a book about the Canberra aircraft as experienced by those that flew and worked on them. I am currently researching the fate of the prototypes and am including a section on VN850 which as you know crashed at Bulwell Common. I have been reading the memories of the crash from the local's eye view and was wondering if I could include some of your memories in the book? If you are interested, please PM me and I will send you an email address. I also have a Facebook page on the book project located here if you would like more details. http://www.facebook....berraExperience

Kind regards,

Steven Beeny

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I have always known it as Bulwell Forest. The Great Northern Railway station which was opposite to the golf house was Bulwell Forest Station. I am sure that the Great Central Railway named their station Bulwell Common to avoid confusion. The golf club is Bulwell Forest Golf Club and the area of housing beyond the playing fields off St Albans Road was called Forest Side.

The wagon works was W Rigley & Co, their main works was alongside the GNR station and there was a branch works on the east side of Bulwell Common sidings.

I remember the Canberra crash in 1951, you could see where the concrete wall had been repaired for many years afterwards, it was a lighter colour.

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Interesting debate and after a bit of research, found that there was, as BulwellBrian and others have stated, a Bulwell Forest and a Bulwell Common railway station. It just depended on which line you were on!

Topic covered before on this site http://nottstalgia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6221

Google and the Wikipedia thread has more info on the two stations, as well as the subject of the common ground http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulwell_Common_railway_station

Ashley will be able to tell us more....I'm no train buff.

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Yes but I was very young (8). It was lunch time and I was home from school for my lunch. The plane came over very low and very noisy then there was a lot of smoke. We kids ran up to the site but were kept away by the police. The plane damaged the chimey of a house on St. Albans Road opposite the sidings. We were late back to school and got into trouble.

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We saw the Canberra come over Claremont school trailing smoke and sounding "odd", didnt of course know it had crashed till later,

that chimney stack (and roof) that was damaged could be seen ( repaired but noticeable) could be seen for many years after, houses still there but think new recent roof.

About 15 years ago I worked p/t for someone who still had a piece of that canberra's perspex cockpit canopy which he "liberated" as a kid.

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Thanks Brian, Stu and Ashley for these memories. What is interesting is Ashley, and I think some others earlier, recalled a smoke trail. This either implies a possible fire in the engine or some other problem. We know that pilot, Dick Peach had tried unsuccessfully to relight the port engine after it had flamed out earlier when he was approaching to land. I did not know about this smoke though. Some of you may know that the Canberra was notoriously horrible at asymmetric (i.e. single engine) landings, especially when power was over-applied to the working engine. This is what happened that day when Dick Peach found his airspeed dropping too much on approach, he throttled up too fast (the old Avons were prone to surge) and it caused his aircraft to bank to the left too much.

Shows you how low he was by clipping the chimney stack, I can imagine that must have been quite a sight from the ground, and as a child.

Stu, Clive Bagshaw's story is very evocative, amazing detail he remembers, very up close and personal. Is there any way you could get in touch with him, or have his contact details? I would love to include his memories in my book.

Ashley, this is a bit of a longshot, but I don't suppose your old p/t boss is around or has the piece of canopy still? It would be interesting to talk to someone who was able to get up close to the wreckage.

Brian, how bad did the aircraft look from where you could see it? Was there a fire and was it badly broken up? What was the scene in general that the police kept you from?

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yes definate trail from it plus "off" sound and flying low, if you know

Claremont Rd Carrington as I recall it came (standing with back to the

school facing towards New Basford, nottingham rd/valley rd) from the right

at an angle that would have took it towards that area. Can't recall when I

heard it had crashed, certainly not that dinner time nor when I was back at

school in the afternoon

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I didn't see the actual crash I was at home on Henrietta Street and ran up to St Albans Road, I wasn.t able to get very close and can only remember smoke from the fire, I was only 8 so my memory is rather dim 60 years on.

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Stu, Clive Bagshaw's story is very evocative, amazing detail he remembers, very up close and personal. Is there any way you could get in touch with him, or have his contact details? I would love to include his memories in my book.

Hi Steven

Note your comment on the site thanks very much. I have contacted Clive this morning pointing out your comments here and on my site and will let you know of the outcome.

Good luck with the book!

Stu

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