AC/DC

[Ashley 288]

Not the band! nor the other thing!!!! but the change from Direct Current to Alternating, Do you remember such? those funny new plugs? and what wire went where? When did it happen and did it cause any funny (or otherwise) incidents? In my case it was when we moved house, believe it or not to next door! and I only remember as I could then get a transformer for my train set, I reckon 1958 in New Basford

[Limey 242]

I think you may be confusing the load rating of the plugs and wiring with AC/DC conversion.

The National Grid was established in the 1930's and I suspect that, by that time, there were no DC systems left. In any case, there were very few DC systems due to inneficiencies in transmission and the Westinghouse type AC generators were already developed by the turn of the century. The only DC systems that existed were very localised, again due to the losses incurred in long distance transmission.

I cannot remember ever coming across a DC system in the UK. However, I do remember that, in the early 1960's, my grandmother's house in Heanor did not have electricity! Lighting in the house was by gas!

[Ashley 288]

No, def DC 200 volts and not just our house, parts of Egypt Rd too and Ford Street New Basford (or at least one house on there) also on DC as friend had a rotary converter, a DC mains motor driving 12v dynamo working his train layout. First train set bought for my last birthday at primary school so March 1957, moved house and onto AC in summer 58,

[Ashley 288]

just a thought, you mentioned localised DC systems? not sure if you know New Basford area but on Isandula Road there was a "power station" (as we knew it) and still working in 1960's, one assumes with original equipement. It was (is, as still there as a double glazing factory) a small place I think built originally to power the old tram system as behind it was the tram depot, later an electric sub station with tranformers etc still there, I wonder if we ran off that? As regards gas lighting around same era there was a terraced house on Nottingham Road between Hollis Street and Langtry Grove that was still gas lit, we used to look in the window on way home from school!

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Most of St Anns was on 250 volts DC in the 1950's I can't recall now the changeover, sometime mid 50's but was supplied from a "converting station" at the bottom of St Anns Well Rd. It also supplied the trolley buses too.

Outlets were rated 15amp, 10 amp and 5 amp, round pins with earth.

I can still recall Mum shopping around for a "universal" TV as AC conversion was in the "pipeline" That was 1956.

I can remember gas street lights, Turner Street, Pym Street and Alfred Street still had those plus all the other streets of my childhood in the early 50's.

As Eric say's, with electricity there are losses, but with AC all you do is step the voltage up and transform it down where needed to reduce the effects of losses. DC requires expensive motor generator sets to compensate for losses.

[Ashley 288]

I had wondered if 250v in Basford, still not sure? but 200v seems to ring a bell? yes both 2 and 3 pin sockets, the 3 pin having a much larger round hole, another memory from around that time was the christmas tree lights, ours were red pointed bulbs about 1.5" long, and 20volt? wired in series, if one blew the lot went out! several of ours had gone, so many in fact dad had wired in a household bulb to lessen the voltage to the reduced number, rather spoilt the effect! Gas lights were everywhere in Basford barring the 2 main roads namely Nottingham Road and Radford Road, on the former I seem to recall a period when we had some that gave a bluish tinge, after the normal lights but before the sodium ones? In the regular heavy fogs it was a judge of how bad to count how many of the latter streets lights we could see! Whether the latter true or not I don't know but my mam swore blind during the war in a fog coupled with the blackout one night she went to make a phone call at the box corner of Haydn Road and Nottingham Road and found herself trying to get into a petrol pump at Ropers Garage on opposite side of Road!

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

The bluish tinge were mercury vapour lamps, still in use but gradually being phased out due to the large amount of mercury used in their manufacture. then the disposal of a "burnt out" lamp.

[Limey 242]

WOW - I am amazed! I suspect it did have soemthing to do with the trolley busses! I did do a pretty extensive "Google" search but couldn't come up with any DC systems in Nottingham. However, I do remember the old round pin plugs - IIRC there were two sizes of 2-pin and a 3-pin version (with a longer, larger diameter ground pin), but all the ones I knew of were on AC systems (notably in Eastwood and Arnold).

If anybody can come up with info on the DC system, hang on to it! That is a great piece of (modern) history!

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Good place to start researching would be Nottingham City Archive department, I'll bet they have a wealth of info on the electrical structure of the city from when it first electrified up until privatization a few years back. Anyone got a few hours to spare who lives close to the city centre?

[firbeck 859]

How wierd, I just looked on to this thread and AC-DC happened to be playing on Radio 2, complete coincidence, very strange, sorry I have nothing to offer except if you are messing with power supplies, wear good rubber wellies and heavy duty rubber gloves, make sure that you have a decent rubber wet suit on as well and don't stand in a bucket of water, ensure you check with Part P of the Building Regulations, you know it makes sense.

Incidentally, I had one of those wierd plugs that connected to the light socket that was connected to my Hornby Dublo transformer, dangerous stuff.

[bamber 128]

Nottingham Civic Society have a potted history of the Corporation Electricity Department

Notingham Corporation Electricity History

[Frank 13]

Incidentally, I had one of those wierd plugs that connected to the light socket, dangerous stuff.

I remember mum plugging the iron and/or hair dryer into the light socket. Couldn't get away with it nowadays.

[loppylugs 8,427]

Came across 200 volt DC on London Road near Trent Bridge in the early 60s.

I remember the electricity board guys talking about changeover too. They had to go to each house to take care of grounding etc.

The R.C. Cathedral on Derby road had a DC organ motor as late as about 1962. There was some controversy about changing it I believe. If the Electricity Board forced it they were trying to get the EMEB to pay for a new motor.

Not sure what the outcome of that disagreement was.

Dave

[Ashley 288]

[quote

I remember mum plugging the iron and/or hair dryer into the light socket.

yes that rings a bell! they used to make a sort of 2 maybe even 3 way adaptor, you put that in the light socket then a bulb in and then 3 bar fire and kettle etc into it! and watch the braided brown fabric covered flex smoke! wasn't quite that bad but you could smell "burning rubber" sometimes. And now for something completly different, but similar! Had a mini van in 1970's remember battery was behind drivers seat in sunken box? one day driving along and van cut out and filled with evil smelling black smoke, had to bale out! A metal tin of Trefolex pipe cutting "grease" had dropped on battery and shorted to chassis, boiled up said trefolex and ruined battery!

[bamber 128]

I remember mum plugging the iron and/or hair dryer into the light socket. Couldn't get away with it nowadays.

Electrical sockets were generally limited to one or two per room until the 1970s so using the light socket made sense.

An alternative, and more likely, reason is that Nottingham Corporation used to have two electricity meters: one for light and one for power. Electricity used for lighting was cheaper so there was a financial incentive for people to plug appliances into the light socket and many people just got into a habit of doing it.

[plantfit 7,580]

Very interesting Bamber, I didn't know about the different tariffs, did they run on different amperage like today? ie: 5 amp for lighting and 13 amp for sockets etc

Rog

[colly0410 1,181]

On 11/14/2008 at 10:55 PM, loppylugs said:

Came across 200 volt DC on London Road near Trent Bridge in the early 60s.

 

Dave

 

I lived on Glapton Road & remember it was 200 volts DC, also remember changeover to AC,  would be early 60's IIRC... I started a thread called '200 volts DC leccy in the Meadows' in the Medders section on 11 September 2013...

[Ampex 5]

Yes, I guess late 50s-early 60s wouldn't be too far short of the mark. I lived in Sandiacre at the time and I well remember Long Eaton as having a DC mains supply then. Many appliances in that period employed a transformer to provide the correct voltages - and, of course, transformers couldn't be used on DC mains.You need a changing magnetic field in the Primary winding of your transformer in order to induce a lower or higher voltage into the Secondary winding.  So transformers work with AC since the magnetic field is oscillating at 50 Hertz.   If you plug the transformer into a DC circuit, the magnetic field is a constant, after a short initial spike.  No oscillating magnetic field, no output voltage; in fact, it will most likely burn up! The answer in those days was to buy a DC to AC converter (which was a device containing valves!) As a previous post said, you could also get some appliances which were described as accepting a Universal power source - and these would operate on AC or DC mains.

[Jill Sparrow 10,304]

Come back Loppylugs! Translation required into English! 

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

With a name like Ampex, I'd say you're a fellow electrician.

 

"Warree" means is if you put summat designed for AC on a DC mains, it's toast, and vice versa in most cases.

 

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

I can't think of an easy translation, as transformers work on the idea of mutual inductance and as such have the hysteresis effect which stops the buggers burning out...Oh crap, just read my last post......LOL

[loppylugs 8,427]

1 hour ago, Jill Sparrow said:

Come back Loppylugs! Translation required into English! 

 

I thought Ampex did a pretty good job Jill.  Doubt I can do much better.

 

Transformers require an AC voltage to change it from one voltage range to another.  DC voltages do not oscillate as AC does so cannot be changed by a transformer.  One must use a resistor and that opens up a whole new can of worms.  

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Electricity is a complicated subject, so complicated even those with Doctorates in the subject cannot agree. Take for instance positive and negative in DC one would assume positive flows to negative, but in the 60's we had the polarizing wars, every week we would get to tech and they'd changed the theory. Eventually a sane professor said we will stick to the known theory that positive flows to negative, even though it doesn't.

Confused yet??  LOL

Gets worse in electronics, we have holes moving around in solid materials!!!  I kid you not!!

Then in radio theory, it's even worse, ask any radio amateur, we have current flowing one way and electrons flowing another way.

If that confuses the layman/woman, how do you think we pros think??

I earned my living keeping electrical equipment running U/G in one pit or another and electricty still amazes me.  AND at times confuses me too....LOL

[loppylugs 8,427]

Theory always drove me up the wall, John.  Finally when I got to Canada I just concentrated on what size AWG wire you needed for a given current, and what size conduit that would need.

 

Of course then they come up with the Edison 3 wire system 120/240 with a grounded neutral.  You can get some funny effects in a house if that neutral goes open circuit.  I preferred the old British two wire 240 volt system.  You knew where you were with that 'til you got to 3 phase and I don't think I'll go there. Lol.

[benjamin1945 16,139]

No please don't go there Loppy,,  lol