Old Mine Workings.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

The map shows the western edge of Wollaton Collieries workings in the deep soft seam. Just to the east on the rest of the map is Wollaton Park.

There are some old workings marked 1789 under Bramcote Moor with a sough, that's a drainage tunnel that the Willoughby family had driven to drain the workings.

My question is, has anyone seen where the sough comes out?? At a guess, I'd say it drains into what once was the Nottingham Canal, so would still be accessible.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Here's another part of the map, farther east, the top workings were Wollatons and the lower were the old workings of Clifton from the late 1800's.

[Fynger 841]

Any idea what the date of the top map is ......looking at Bramcote Hall there is the extension building on it and it says 'school'...so it cannot be earlier than 1905.....Excellent map tho thanks.

[Limey 242]

Interesting to note that the University buildings that housed the Mining Dept. (at least back in the 1970's) were on ground that had not been mined! - They were approximately in the location labelled "Government Offices" on the map!

[littlebro 234]

My ancesters lived on the Moor from arount 1790 to 1947. Their cottage was about where the "M" of Moor appears.

Here is a map of Bramcote Moor from the Title Deeds of the Bramcote Hills estate transferring from Henry Mellish to Colonel Holden in 1926. The Bramcote Hills estate was bounded by (approx) the Derby Road, Coventry Lane, Nottingham canal & Tottle Brook and Sandy Lane.

The boundary line to the north east of the Moor is the historic Tottle Brook which drained from the north to the south. The sough seems to follow the line/direction of the Tottle Brook but it is unlikely to have drained north. It appears to meet the canal just west of the line of Coventry Lane. There is a line on the top left of the map that may line up with the sough.

Most of the pre-Wollaton pit coal workings on the Moor, Balloon Woods and Bilborough were bell chambers.

The Moor was always sodden, still is. The Wimpey houses were built on rafts but even some of these have moved.

Your map appears to be printed post WW2 with coal workings overwritten. The school is the Bramcote Park School built post war I believe. The later Grammar & Tech schools do not appear, they were built mid 1950's

[firbeck 859]

[quote name='Ayupmeducks' date='Jan 6 2009, 01:36 PM' post='60673'

My question is, has anyone seen where the sough comes out?? At a guess, I'd say it drains into what once was the Nottingham Canal, so would still be accessible.

We used to play in that area all the time when we were kids and pretty much knew every square inch. I don't recall any drainage tunnels or buildings in that particular area otherwise we would have explored them. There was a culvert under the canal further westwards, but that was for a stream that I doubt had anything to do with mine workings.

What is interesting is the line drawn through Balloon Woods at the back of Firbeck Estate, it coincides almost exactly with an open drift mine dug into a coal seam near the surface which had a tramway and wagons running down to a wharf on the canal. This was still intact until the mid to late 50's when the house on the site was abandoned, then burnt out and demolished, the wagons were pushed into the canal and probably still lie under Legoland.

[firbeck 859]

Littleboro

I remember the remains of that cottage, if you headed for Moor Farm along the lane from Balloon Woods cross roads, it was on the left hand side about half way between the canal and the farm. It was just an overgrown pile of bricks as I remember it, the rumour was that it had been bombed in the war, it obviously wasn't, would it have been demolished when the playing fields were constructed for Bramcote Hills School.

[littlebro 234]

No, it was not bombed. Family records show it was occupied until 1947. It was quite small, not enough room to live with a bomb!

I have some photos of it, I will dig some out and post them later.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

I've no idea what the map dates are, but they form the Clifton Colliery abandonment maps dated from 1968.

The maps I know are fairly old as Clifton Estate and the bridge are not on them, plus chunks of the city are missing, so they probably date to the turn of the 20th century. Not the lack of buildings and roads on the west side of Wollaton!!

The rectangular strips under the University are narrow longwalls, they had to modify their face widths to reduce damage to the University buildings, I did find a paper on this on the internet.

The road marked "Old Mans Level" was a main road between seams in Wollaton Colliery. The mine worked Deep Hard, Piper and Tupton (Low Main) seams.

Unfortunately there is very little history I can find on Wollaton Colliery other than what I remember from men who worked there and were transferred to Clifton after closure. All long gone by now!

I know the Willoughby's sank and owned Wollaton and Radford Collieries, made a fortune out of coal, built the hall and grounds, and as the city started to encroach, built the high wall so as they couldn't see the "peasants" outside!

On Nationalisation, the Coal Board acquired the hall and grounds and later donated it to the City.

[firbeck 859]

The first map shows a partially completed Firbeck Estate which must have been in that state around about 1950.

Quite a bit of subsidence appeared in Wollaton Park in the late 50's, particularly around the Camelia House gardens, this was a series of long cracks in the ground, I remember it being fenced off and being terrified that the ground would open up even more and we would dissapear into the abyss.

My parents house suffered from the effects of subsidence that are still visible today, the gable is bowed and the internal door frames are crooked.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

That subsidence would be from the Piper seam workings which finished with a couple of longwall faces in 1960 and 1961 and a couple of faces which finished in 1964 in the Tupton seam.

[Bip 88]

The old mans lever runs parallel with the black path as we us to call it over the railway bridge and to the canal. Now that stretch is the Wollaton Vale leading up to the cross roads at balloon woods traffic lights.

Bip.

[littlebro 234]

Here is an older map, shown as 1835. I cannot recall where it’s from. It shows buildings latterly known as Moor Farm (now demolished) and a row of houses along what is Deddington Lane (footpath section), all gone now. There is a solitary cottage in the middle of the moor.

[Fynger 841]

Very UNdetailed....think they forgot how to draw buildings on that one ( mainly just parish boundaries )

Shows so much change tho.

[firbeck 859]

When and why was Moor Farm demolished, it used to be a busy pub in the 70's, I remember John Holmes from Radio Nottingham doing his 'Progressive Music' thing up there on Sunday nights.

The only problem was staggering back down those dark lanes to Trowell Road after too many pints.

[Fynger 841]

Me and a mate one night went there on his bike and sidecar ( used to go often ) but after this night the sidecar fell off its chassis because the bolts shook out going up the lane to it.....at least it had a soft ditch.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

I'm pretty sure that "old mans level" is an underground roadway in old workings, it's on the west side of the boreholes which were drilled to establish where the old workings were for Wollaton colliery. It doesn't show on the Tupton and Piper seam maps.

The seam above Deep Hard is the Deep soft, it would be pretty close to the surface around that area and that road could well link deep soft to deep hard.

You'll also see on the top left side of that map, possible old workings too, probably an old mine once worked by monks in the 17th century.

I was told during my training, monks worked coal around the Wollaton area in the Middle ages.

There's also a pub somewhere in or around Wollaton that had a coal seam in it's cellar and Henry the 8th gave Royal license for the landlords to work the seam for coal for heating. I don't recall the name of the pub, maybe the Admiral Rodney?? Cocked Hat??

Anyone any ideas?

[firbeck 859]

There's also a pub somewhere in or around Wollaton that had a coal seam in it's cellar and Henry the 8th gave Royal license for the landlords to work the seam for coal for heating. I don't recall the name of the pub, maybe the Admiral Rodney??

I would suggest that it's the Admiral Rodney, the Home Ales sold in there could often taste a bit smokey.

It's terrible, the Rodney was my local for 10 years, but that was 30 years ago and I can't remember, or find out much, about it's history.

All I can recall was that it incorporated parts of the original manor house that was situated next to St Leonards Church, which was superceded by Wollaton Hall in 1588, and is the reason for the amount of dressed stone incorporated in it's structure. When it became an inn, I don't recall, looking at some of the buildings on the site, I would suggest that it would be in the 18th century. It would seem that Rodney, one of Nelsons contemporaries, was a friend of Lord Willoughby, often visited him, and that the pub was named after him, that would have been in the early part of the 19th century.

I wouldn't be surprised, considering that the site originally was occupied by a medieaval manor house, that a variety of cellars and tunnels were dug beneath that area, probably long forgotten and now capped off. The whole area was full of surface coal, we could dig it up in our garden at Park Crescent just off Trowell Road.

In the late 60's, I had to do a major project in conjunction with my Geography 'A' Level exam when I was at Bilborough Grammar and opted for an historical and geographic study comparing Wollaton and Bilborough. I subsequently spent many hours researching in the library archives in Shakespeare Street and found some fascinating information, particularly with regard to coal mining activities in the area. I know that I still have the project somewhere, but I can't recall where the hell it is, I suspect back in my mothers loft in Park Crescent, it's full of maps and interesting snippets of information. You'd love it, some of the stuff archived in the library was incredible, I'm sure its safe but where is it kept now.

I recall having to do an architectural project when I was at Trent Poly, I went into the library and they produced an original set of architectural plans for Bolsover Castle with the words ' Don't let on to Derby Council that we have these as they would die to get hold of them'. I wonder where they are now.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

The coal your on about Firbeck, is probably the Deep Soft seam at a guess. I may be wrong as the High Hazles, Top Hard etc could well be outcropping towards the Derbyshire border in that area too. Hard to say without geological maps.

I forget how many seams of coal lie beneath Nottingham.

Those notes your on about would be nice to read through, I'm scanning material daily now for my website, based on Clifton and Cotgrave Collieries, the training material we used to have from the NCB, my experiences and the late Terry Blythes Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire collieries site. His site has gone since he died, I copied it just in case and got permission from his Son to use any or all of his material.

[littlebro 234]

Hi Firbeck,

Here is an image of the cottage on Bramcote Moor with the ancestors

I have visited the Moor again today, the section east of Moor lane is certainly lower than the west and lower than the canal. I have found an OS extract showing a contour line and a spur to the Tottle Brook that starts in the centre of the Moor - around the bus-stop on Eastcote Avenue - just where the sough seems to end. The part of the Moor around Eyam close seems to be the lowest part.

I still think the water in the sough will have flowed south. The canal was not started until 1792/3. The coal working shows 1789.

Here is a 'then and now' map

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

If it did drain south, then it drained the workings to the north west and possibly drained the old mine it crosses.

The sough is mentioned in Dr AR Griffin's book The British Coalmining Industry, he states how much it cost to drive and how long, I'll look up the quote.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

OK, in 1552 the Willoughby's of Wollaton spent 1000 pounds on driving a mile long sough, that worked out at 11/4d per yard, pretty expensive those days. He also states the sough being as long would also have had ventilation shafts sunk down to it.

So by the date, I'd say it drained the top left hand workings on the map going south, then when the 1700's mine was working, would probably have drained it too.

I wonder if the Curator of Wollaton Hall would have some family records of the Willoughby's mining ventures??

I did get some photo's emailed me from the bloke in charge of the geology section at Wollaton some years back of Clifton Colliery from their collection.

[littlebro 234]

Hiya Ayupmeducks

What diameter would the sough be?

I see on Trowell Moor there were mines and a cupola - I assume to smelt ironstone? The sough could have been to drain Trowell Moor and in building it the coal was discovered under the Bramcote Moor?

Aerial photos do not show any ground working but it has been regraded so much over the years. Perhaps we should tell Time Team & Tony Robinson that the Romans built it - get it excavated for free!

I will take a walk this weekend and have a look into the canal cut for any evidence.

Regards,

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

No, the sough was to drain the mine workings, the willoughby's were also involved in iron making back in the 16th century from what I have picked up.

I'm going to contact the curator of Wollaton Hall to see what info they have on the coal mining exploits of the family.

I know form what I've read, they mined the whole area of coal from the seam/s they could work. Probablt the top hard or maybe the deep soft seams to the west where they are shallow to outcrop.

Amazing that the deep soft seam at Clifton Colliery at shaft bottom was 1000 ft below the surface.

[littlebro 234]

Hiya,

If you want any local footwork, just ask!

There is quite a story connected with mining and the story starts on Bramcote Moor, I will tell it some day, but not just now.

All the best,