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Moving soon to an all electric house...Anyone on here know anything about LPG?...suppliers,boilers,fitters.Anybody recommend a reliable company or individual to fit the house out with a gas supply.

Ditto garden fencing...

Ditto Conservatories...

If you've had a job well done I'd like to hear about it.

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Poohbear

Have you ever considered the Altherma air source heat pump?

With efficiencies between 340% and 520% it is a real economical alternative to gas, oil or water heating and hot water.

I've fitted several systems now including some interfaced with solar panels/tubes.

One customer who lives near Gunthorpe was on oil before at a cost for fuel about £1900/year. His total electricity bill for heating and hot water last year was £264!

http://www.altherma.co.uk/

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Read it mate...didn't grasp most of it.So this gismo is for hot water and radiators with electric back up even in winter? How much roughly for the set up?? New one on me this.....

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Frank fitted me a similar system a couple of years ago.

In the summer it cools, in the winter it heats by moving heat

from the outside air to the inside fan unit.

Very efficient, cheap to run.

This is the latest version for providing heating and Hot water.

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To Frank:

Over here Frank,we have a similar Air SourcedHeat pump which is being fitted by everyone in preference to the Direct combined tank/solar panel system. Now this is where I need the advice>

We had a new 350 litre Electric water tank fitted only a few months ago. I noted in today`s paper that Rheem make an Air sourced Heat pump that can be Retrofitted to save energy by 65%.Question,Frank. May I have your opinion on this? Thanks Stan.

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Been on LPG 6 years, difficult to compare with mains gas as regards cost as we are in a caravan, Calor deliver such day after ordered, can't help with a fitter/servicing etc as I do my own but not that many LPG registered firms and some are a rip off! good one at East Bridgford, Rushcliffe Council are fitting electric units in their properties where no mains gas, no sure how such work! just a unit that fits in circ pipe via compression fittings and supplies heat and hw.

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What would it cost Frank?...roughly...thats the thing I'm interested in.I live alone so huge water tank would not be necessary unless needed to heat radiators.

Just read further...5kw 6/8 thousand for a domestic fitting....ouch!

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5kw 6/8 thousand for a domestic fitting

Where did you get that costing from PB?

What does it include?

I believe the unit connects to a normal Domestic central heating system and replaces the combi boiler?

I dont think Frank will touch anything less than DAIKIN in my experience. Tell Em Frank?

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That price was in the link Frank provided...damned if I can find it again now...lot of info on there.I've found that the planning people know little about it and are concerned about noise of fans.It'll probably take them 10 years to find the details.

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I see, that "boiler" I mentioned earlier is only suitable for a radiator system as replacement for gas, solid fuel or oil boiler, sounds good idea, they are about 3ft long x 4" square, you just cut out a length of pipe and insert such wired up to timeswitch, stat or why, think house size about £500 but unsure of running costs, expensive I bet?

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PM sent PB

Right then. An air source heat pump is exactly as it says - it uses the available heat in the outdoor air to boil off the refrigerant which is then added to by a compressor to raise the refrigerant to a high temperature. This hot gas is then sent indoor to what looks like a normal wall hung boiler where it gives up its heat into the radiator water circuit, or under floor heating circuit. A 3 port valve is also installed into the water circuit and this can be programmed to divert the heating circuit into a hot water storage cylinder.

You can also install solar panels and connect them onto the cylinder via another heat exchanger. In spring, summer and autumn, there is normally enough solar heat to provide all of the domestic hot water, but if necessary, the Altherma can provide top up at any time. The cylinder also comes with a back up immersion heater for emergencies or if you want to get a cold cylinder up to temperature in a short time (say you have just returned from holiday and want a bath)

The Altherma also has a back up immersion heater to help out when outdoor temps drop below say, -5C. Very rare that I've seen this heater in action though.

An oil boiler is about 80% efficient (1kw energy input to 0.8kw output)

A combi boiler is about 93% efficient

The Altherma is at minimum 340% efficient and at best 540% efficient (1kw input for 3.4kw output or 5.4kw output) Efficiencies tend to drop off as outdoor temps drop.

It's a fairly new technology as the new high pressure refrigerants have only recently been invented in response to the Kyoto Protocol (global warming thingy) and now lots of manufacturers are jumping on the bandwagon.

As with cars, they all do the same job, i.e. get you from A to B, but with different levels of comfort and reliability for different prices. It's the same with Air Source heat Pumps - you get what you pay for. Daikin are the inventors and market leaders in my opinion.

There is quite a bit of work involved in installing them so the initial outlay is rather more than you would expect to pay for a gas boiler system. However, the benefits come afterwards with energy savings (running costs)

If you are considering moving house, you probably wouldn't get your money back, but if you are there to stay for say 10 years or more, it is a very good alternative to gas, oil, lpg or storage heating.

Whew......must be time for a beer now ....

I'm away tomorrow down to Cornwall for my Daughters wedding - hope to be able to drop in in the next couple of weeks but that depends on the place having Wi Fi.

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To Frank:

Over here Frank,we have a similar Air SourcedHeat pump which is being fitted by everyone in preference to the Direct combined tank/solar panel system. Now this is where I need the advice>

We had a new 350 litre Electric water tank fitted only a few months ago. I noted in today`s paper that Rheem make an Air sourced Heat pump that can be Retrofitted to save energy by 65%.Question,Frank. May I have your opinion on this? Thanks Stan.

Stan

An indirect cylinder can be heated from a primary heat source, be it a normal gas boiler of an Air Source heat pump. You possibly have an indirect cylinder recently installed. Does it have 2 pipe connection points on the side at low level - one above the other? I would expect that they are capped off at the moment if you have immersion heating. These are the flow and return points for the Primary circuit, so it should be possible to connect an ASHP to the cylinder.

Energy running costs are much lower on ASHP's due to the efficiencies. See post above. If you have off peak electricity, you can heat your cylinder even cheaper overnight.

Here's some links

http://www.eco-smartplumber.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=38&Itemid=105

http://www.altherma.co.uk/

http://www.orionair.co.uk/Daikin%20Altherma.htm

If you search for Air Source Heat Pump you will find lots of information.

Rheem are not very big in the UK and therefore do not have a high regard. From my experience with their kit - it is very basic. Any of the Japanese brands should be good, Daikin, Sanyo, etc. Have a look around the www. Come back with more questions if you have any but you may not get a reply for the next 2 weeks.

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Unfortunately No Ashley. The cylinder needs to be pressurised and unvented.

With a direct cylinder, the heating medium is actually stored in the cylinder and then comes out of the taps, like the oversink water heaters or old Ascot water heaters.

The Primatic is a vented 'open' system so it is not suitable.

The Stainless Steel cylinder is supplied as part of the Altherma kit as it is quite critical where the temperature sensors are installed - Daikin don't like you using just any old cylinder as it may affect the controls operation.

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Poohbear.

The Daikin Altherma has recently been awarded full compliance with Building Regulations

The noise levels are very low, just a small circulating pump on the indoor unit, just as you would have on a conventional boiler, and a low hum on the outdoor unit from the inverter. I've had to touch some of the smaller units to feel the vibration to know that it was working!

Starting to sound like a salesman now :ohmy:

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Was on about your description of a direct cylinder, "2 pipe connection points one above the other" that would also apply to indirect and primatic, must have fitted hundreds in my 23 years with the council, IF anyone has a leaking cylinder Gledhill Water Storage at sutton in ashfield will make you a cylinder with indentical tappings, flow and return circ positions, HW draw off etc, you just take your old one there and a couple of days later (sometimes next day) pick up brand new one, about same price as bought off the shelf, couple of days without hot water, but can save alot of pipe alteration, esp if your system is old imperial pipework etc OR by sending me signed blank cheque or credit card details with pin no. I'll come out of retirement and do the job for you! :tease:

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Poohbear

Don't waste your time with the planners, they know nothing except how to protect their jobs and pensions and try to promote 'Green' systems that they haven't got a clue about.

All these amazing Eco systems are a load of unproven crap promoted by the so called earth friendly government and promoted to the public by that dim witted twat who thinks he's a knowledgeable, superior architect on 'Grand Designs'.

Calor gas systems, forget it, a rip off to install and hideously expensive to run, forget about the need to cook on gas, I was of the same opinion as you but once forced to accept electricity, I've never looked back. We have a gas supply here, but when I needed a new cooker, no way, electric cooking is far superior.

A few years ago I also purchased a brand new house with nothing but storage heaters and an electric immersion cylinder, yes I also got into a paddy and wanted to change everything. In the end, it was a complete waste of money. The house was so well insulated, the total U-value was amazing, and the latest kind of heaters were so superior, that my heating bills and heat efficiency were the most incredible that I've experienced in any house. Not only that, but while I was in there I suffered a really bad winter, but the three storage heaters I had downstairs kept the whole place incredibly hot, never needed any of the heaters on upstairs, it was always shorts time in that house, even in the middle of Winter, and I recall that the worst bill I ever got for the entire energy consumption in the house for a year was £450.

Well, thats my opinion, I've only been a planning and building consultant for 40 years, wer'e just being conned into buying ground heat pumps, solar panels, windmills and a paraphenalia of unproven rubbish, if you've got a big enough property, you're even encouraged to recycle your crap through a reed bed, won't help the tadpoles much will it.

Re-open the coal mines, lets put people back into work, convert all the hideously expensive gas powered stations back to coal and lets all get on with it and look forward to warmer summers and ice free winters.

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Unfortunately the house I've got is flat roofed and poorly insulated with not many options to upgrade.I've even looked at suspended ceiling systems with the possibility of increasing the insulation.I will be looking at any improvements in electric heating alongside of other systems.I agree planners are a pain...but when it comes to re-selling, the conveyancers insist on seeing planning approval or exemptions for all alterations.

I'm open to all suggestions off here and will consider any helpful hints from others...

Now about this fencing.......wink.gif

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always wanted a flat roof house, great to sleep out on in summer (till it rains) as a kid my bedroom was an attic and we used to climb out onto an angled roof then into the "V" formed with next doors, no one knew we were there, great adventure!

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