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On 5/18/2020 at 11:13 AM, Dark Angel said:

 Cliff Ton:-  Wainmans Terrace/Devonshire Cottages are the same buildings. They pre-date Dunstan Street slightly.

 

 TSB has given me an itch I can't scratch. Who was Wainman and why were they built in that position

Netherfield was built piecemeal by various builders as bits of land were sold.  (Won't go into an essay on this subject)

 Will try and come back later, seem to be having a few issues at the moment.

Dark Angel your interest is appreciated and it is bugging me too. 

My interpretation has been that Wainmans was not necessarily a person but rather the name alludes to the occupation. A Wainman is wagon driver and given a lot of the housing was built for the railway workers I assumed this made sense. Just as likely that the terrace was named after a specific person I guess.

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18 minutes ago, TSB said:

My current favoured theory is that it gets renamed/rebuilt as Devonshire Cottages. 

 

I think that's the answer to it all. Everything can be explained on that assumption.

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Sorry to interrupt, know little about Netherfield but interesting thread. If I could offer the following; don't think those buildings were ever pulled down and rebuilt, it's the same outline on all maps until the mid '60s. They were also very small dwellings, smaller than normal. ( I believe I can see them on a Frith map dated 1883, although not on OS mid '80s. )

 

So that  leaves a re-name for some reason. But..maybe those dwellings were always called Devonshire Cottages and Wainsmans Terrace was a different place, how about the 14 houses spitting distance away and stand-alone on the end of newly designated Dennis St, see CTs map. Might Wainsmans Terrace have been a temporary designation for a few years?

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One other point to consider.... TSB  (not to be confused with TBI who has just added a comment) I've seen the census entry you posted on the Gedling FB page. 

 

It might be worthwhile to post it here because I think it adds a few points of interest (I can post it if you can't).

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46 minutes ago, TBI said:

Sorry to interrupt, know little about Netherfield but interesting thread. If I could offer the following; don't think those buildings were ever pulled down and rebuilt, it's the same outline on all maps until the mid '60s. They were also very small dwellings, smaller than normal. ( I believe I can see them on a Frith map dated 1883, although not on OS mid '80s. )

 

So that  leaves a re-name for some reason. But..maybe those dwellings were always called Devonshire Cottages and Wainsmans Terrace was a different place, how about the 14 houses spitting distance away and stand-alone on the end of newly designated Dennis St, see CTs map. Might Wainsmans Terrace have been a temporary designation for a few years?

Thanks for joining in TBI. I have just checked the 1901 Census and there are 14 addresses on Dennis Street. All are even numbered from number 2 through to number 28 so that accounts for all 14 of the properties you can see on CT's map on page 3 of this thread.

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For those not seen it here is my facebook post on the Gedling Village Local History & Preservation Society facebook group.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1908689169455273/permalink/2645750662415783/?comment_id=2647899728867543

 

A week or so ago when I posted this I believed that Wainsman Terrace was at number 1 Dunstan Street. I am now not so sure.

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For people who aren't on Facebook, this is the census page in question.

eE1omKs.jpg

 

I'm not sure what can be gathered from the enumerator's way of putting Wainsman Terrace and then Dunstan Street in that particular way.....and the fact that the house  numbers go 3, 4, 6.

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Perhaps the missing numbers were not occupied on census night. Some enumerators note this. Others don't. They just miss the number out.

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         Had a few problems posting this morning. The gaps between the lines weren't by design. Some of what I tried to post didn't show.

 including the line:- if I'm wrong, a triple malt will be heading in your direction.

        To re iterate, Wainman Terrace/Devonshire Cottages are the same buildings. Take Dennis Street out of the equation. Like TBI, I have seen an old map, date unknown, this showed one building located in the middle of the present ex Co op buildings, it had buildings extended to Wainmans Terrace (although it wasn't marked up as such.) in fact the streets were laid out, without many buildings.

       Until TSB posted I hadn't come across this name. I can't remember actually seeing this name on any map I have seen.

       TBI is correct, they were small. they seem to  predate Dunstan Street, probably built early/mid 1880's. I'm sure the Co op buildings were built mid 1880's. 

       It seems a small house for so many people, however Emily had been widowed with a young baby, maybe the sanitation was slightly better than Godfrey Street.

      Don't apologise for getting involved TBI, all input is welcome.

     Between us I'm sure we'll get to the bottom of it, there is an answer, just needs one of us to locate it.

     Had considered your suggestion about it referencing a wagon driver, although a wain(e) was normally considered to be a hay wagon.

     You could be right however.

     Returning to Dennis Street, houses were only built one side as the church had purchased the land opposite. These houses also predate Dunstan Street. 

     

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           Just seen the census page.  I read that as Emily Dring residing at 3 Wainmans Terrace, not Dunstan Street.

            The enumerator has written do do( ditto) instead of writing the address each time.

              He's also spelt it Waimmans.

           Still haven't come across it which ever is the correct spelling.

 

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Are the Co-op buildings you refer to where Hawks Cycles is?

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That would be Graham Read's Cycle Warehouse. The Raleigh Cycle King. I bought a bike from that very shop last week although my friend Graham died last year in Harrogate. 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, TSB said:

Are the Co-op buildings you refer to where Hawks Cycles is?

 

Hawk's Cycles is what used to be known as Graham Read. It's obviously half old buildings and half new;  https://goo.gl/maps/RN1MjUT9jNfWxzX28

 

A few yards further along Victoria Road (travelling beyond Dunstan Street) is what was formerly a Co-Op  https://goo.gl/maps/xQXbJwSsHPFgorUk8

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He started in a tiny shop on Curzon Street.  Bought my first bike from him.  Nice guy, fair dealer.

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I think Graham made the greater part of his considerable wealth from investing in property. He had a vast collection of flats throughout Nottingham. Even the upper floors of the cycle shop were converted into flats. I first met him through flying. He never really got the hang of navigation so he was always looking for someone to fly with him to ensure he didn’t get lost! Nice guy!

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          Someone has used the double m spelling of Wainman when they uploaded this family onto the Internet.

 

         If you look at Cliff Tons map:- the block from right of the arrow to Dennis Street contains the Co op buildings. The large area from the middle to Dennis Street were the original complex.

         On the old map, if you look at the boundary line for Dennis Street and Dunstan Street, mentally draw that line to Victoria Road, between that line and the left boundary for the Co op was the position of the building, including the long building at the rear and the smaller one at right angles to it.

         It looks as if Wainmans Terrace had been mapped out but not necessarily built. This might explain why they were built at odds with the rest of Netherfield, with the streets following the original enclosure boundaries. This is only supposition on my part. The proof is hiding somewhere. 

       I thought Mary Selina Curzon owned those strips from the boundary of St Georges Church, although there were some smaller landowners further to the sidings. Was Wainman one of these? Was he a builder who purchased the land? Did he exist? As yet I can find no trace of him. 

      Another possibility is that Wainmans Terrace wasn't an official name, but one conjured up by the local population. However that doesn't explain houses being offered for rent in that street. Appearing on census forms would also suggest its legality.

     There was another square area the same size as Wainmans Terrace marked out beyond it.

     Could this have been down to ad hoc building, or was there another street plan before the one we see now?

     There were a lot of sanitary issues in the early days, eventually the council got tough with the builders and landowners to correct this.

     I am certain that is the right location for Wainmans Terrace/Devonshire Cottages.

     They weren't averse to changing street names in this locality:- Victoria Road started life as Moor Lane, before becoming Netherfield Lane. Station Road started out as Brooke Street, before becoming Urban Road. Meadow Road was formally Toll Bar Lane ( or Toll Lane )

     Have just read through what I have written, what waffle, I hope you get the gist.

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   STANLEY1706 posted on 20th February 2011:- as a child I lived in Devonshire Cottages, these were on the right as you went down Dunstan Street, the last time I looked it was a car park.

 

   Thinking about the house numbering on the census form, if they were numbered consecutively, it's possible I have actually been in the house your ancestors lived in. It was either the third or forth on the left as you look from Dunstan Street.

   Will really need to look at the rest of the census form to work it out. Actually, it doesn't help solve this riddle. Going off at a tangent springs to mind. Totally superfluous to the original question.

  I cannot scratch this itch, and I don't know why.

 

    Again unrelated, have found a reference to Wainmans Terrace in 1905.

    Somewhere or someone has an answer.

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What does the 1911 census show, are there any references to Wainsmans on there? If Wainsmans was renamed it could likely be around this time as the east side of Dunstan St was built past the terrace. I see the two end houses of the terrace/cottages were actually numbered 12 and 14 Dunstan St, there were no numbers 1 and 2.  Devonshire Cottages per se seemed to be 12 dwellings.   

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11 hours ago, Dark Angel said:

 Again unrelated, have found a reference to Wainmans Terrace in 1905.

 

Can you tell us more ?

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      Seems this forum has been here before:-  

 

https://nottstalgia.com/forums/topic/12429-netherfield-1911/

 

 

     TBI:- nice little nugget you've found. If these end houses were numbered 12 & 14 Dunstan Street, then it looks likely they were contemporary with other construction around them and not before as I was beginning to think. Unless they were renumbered later to fit in with surrounding buildings. Explains why there is no 1 & 2 on the census form. Am sure their front doors were in line with the others and not on Dunstan Street.

     Cliff Ton:- can't be too specific at the moment, will have to return to item later. It related to a coroners inquest at the Methodist Church.

it was an abbreviated newspaper clip, someone lived on Wainmans Terrace, but I don't know if it was the deceased or a witness. As the names didn't relate to the original question I flipped past, (only to regret it). Had been rummaging for a long time, getting nowhere, with brain obviously not fully engaged as it's the type of tangential meandering I would normally take.

 

   

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         Bit late returning, not only name changes but also number changes as in Victoria Road. Originally even numbered on the left travelling from the railway crossing.

        The map I referred to previously was actually in an early twentieth century book I used to own, but can no longer find. Have a feeling someone borrowed it. Thinking about it, it is possible that the author could have altered a map to indicate his perception of early Netherfield and how it could have looked. Squares and roads were marked up which didn't come to fruition. Was he looking at official documents or summising?

        It appears that previous Netherfield posters are on Radford Reds list of missing in action.

 

      DavidW:- there is an H Parrott recorded as a church warden at St Georges Netherfield. ( apologies if I have mistaken the person asking the question.) prior to WW1.

 

  Have a map showing the buildings I previously referred to, it shows Manvers Street school built 1881. Not Staffords built 1883. Does not show Dunstan Street at all. Not even marked out.

 

   The houses built as Wainmans Terrace could be seen all around Nottingham and districts. ( some can be seen on Radford Reds map of Hyson Green.)

 

  coal merchants:- Mathew Mann 3 Dunstan Street & George Woolley 6 Dunstan Street were operating just before WW1.

                                also active at the same time:- Alfred Bryan 33 Chandos Street, John Trueman 63 Godfrey Street, Frederick Wallis 7 Kendrick Street.  Think Netherfield Co Op also had a coal operation at this time.

 

   CliffTon:- if someone wishes to view the map, would you be able to put it on here. I don't think it will happen as it looks as if this thread has run its course.

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12 minutes ago, Dark Angel said:

 CliffTon:- if someone wishes to view the map, would you be able to put it on here. I don't think it will happen as it looks as if this thread has run its course.

 

Which map are you referring to ?

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      It's a section of an ordinance map showing the area of Netherfield in which TSB asked his question.

      At present, I think this thread has run its course.

      You've had some prolific Netherfield posters in the past but they seem to have moved on.

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