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I am reading this page daily waiting for replies to get to bottom our mystery so at least one person is still interested.

 

I have found an excellent website that overlays modern maps with various maps at different scales at different time periods.

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=19&lat=52.96320&lon=-1.07327&layers=168&b=5

 

Type in Dunstan Street and select 25 inch OS Map 1892-1914. The detail on this particular map is excellent.

It looks like the sheet for the Netherfield area was surveyed circa 1900. No text identifying Wainmans Terrace or Devonshire Terrace but there is 2 x 7 terraced houses at a right angle to Dunstan Street on the right between Dunstan and Dennis Street. This is of course where a few on this message thread believe Wainmans Terrace/Devonshire Cottages to be.

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8 hours ago, Dark Angel said:

         Bit late returning, not only name changes but also number changes as in Victoria Road. Originally even numbered on the left travelling from the railway crossing.

        The map I referred to previously was actually in an early twentieth century book I used to own, but can no longer find. Have a feeling someone borrowed it. Thinking about it, it is possible that the author could have altered a map to indicate his perception of early Netherfield and how it could have looked. Squares and roads were marked up which didn't come to fruition. Was he looking at official documents or summising?

        It appears that previous Netherfield posters are on Radford Reds list of missing in action.

 

      DavidW:- there is an H Parrott recorded as a church warden at St Georges Netherfield. ( apologies if I have mistaken the person asking the question.) prior to WW1.

 

  Have a map showing the buildings I previously referred to, it shows Manvers Street school built 1881. Not Staffords built 1883. Does not show Dunstan Street at all. Not even marked out.

 

   The houses built as Wainmans Terrace could be seen all around Nottingham and districts. ( some can be seen on Radford Reds map of Hyson Green.)

 

  coal merchants:- Mathew Mann 3 Dunstan Street & George Woolley 6 Dunstan Street were operating just before WW1.

                                also active at the same time:- Alfred Bryan 33 Chandos Street, John Trueman 63 Godfrey Street, Frederick Wallis 7 Kendrick Street.  Think Netherfield Co Op also had a coal operation at this time.

 

   CliffTon:- if someone wishes to view the map, would you be able to put it on here. I don't think it will happen as it looks as if this thread has run its course.

 

Dark Angel, what did you mean by this comment - "The houses built as Wainmans Terrace could be seen all around Nottingham and districts"?

How do you know this?

 

Where did you get the info about Coal Merchants?

 

Your mention of Matthew Mann at 3 Dunstan Street particularly made me thing about that address.

Before now I had read/interpreted the 1901 Census for the Drings as living at 3 Dunstan Street and the Wilsons at 13 Wainsman Terrace. Just this now I have re-visited the census images for the few pages for Dunstan Street and I can now see that Matthew Mann is indeed at 3 Dunstan Street. 

In actual fact the Drings are at 3 Wainmans Terrace. For some reason I didn't interpret it this way until now.

 

I would still love to see a map or something confirming Wainmans Terrace was where we believe it to have existed.

 

I am still waiting to chat to a Mr Dring (Harry Dring born 1882 is his grandfather)  who is a relative who grew up in the area in the late 1940s and 1950s and look forward to asking him if he has any knowledge of topics discussed these last 2 or 3 pages on this thread.

 

Once I have had the chance to speak to him I will post a new message if he has anything interesting to add t

 

As I was typing this I just noticed something else on the 1901 Census. The Mardell's at 5 Wainmans Terrace are also relatives!!!!!

Charles and Emma Mardell are the parents of Beatrice Wilson (nee Mardell) who lives at 13 Wainmans Terrace with her husband William Wilson and children.

 

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      I could have worded the information about houses like Wainmans Terrace being built all around Nottingham a lot better. Apologies. It happens when you try to relay to much information in one post. What I was referring to was the propensity at this time to build rows of houses at right angles to the main thorough fare. Only a central walkway, with paths leading off to the individual front doors.

     This only happened on this one occasion in Netherfield. Some could argue Kozi Kots are built like this. However, Kozi Kots were built in line with Meadow Cottages and have gardens.

     I can't find another example in Netherfield. The town was built piece meal and not in any logical pattern apart from most of the roads leading from Victoria Road following field boundaries.

     Initially, when the railways arrived, they looked towards purchasing land and building houses for their workers. This didn't happen because there were too many landowners, land agents and solicitors to deal with, the transactions became messy. One land owner would be happy to sell, another wouldn't sell and another would bump the price up. The railways stood back and basically let whom so ever wanted to, build as and when. It could also be said that the railway companies were themselves getting tight for money.

    This could explain various plans for building and I'm not convinced the council were particularly quick in dealing with certain aspects of these properties being built at the time.

    After the cholera epidemics in Nottingham, it had been decided that something serious had to happen with the management of sewage.

   Carlton had been included in this plan, but Netherfield wasn't. The council weren't particularly quick in sorting this anomaly out.

   They should have insisted all housing be built with proper amenities.  

   Have now wandered away from the original query.

   Returning to Wainmans Terrace, I can't find any mention of it after 1905. Houses were still being advertised for rental in this year.

  Neither can I find any mention of Devonshire Cottages at this time. (Could they have had another name in the interim.)

.  We know  Devonshire  Cottages existed, Cliff Ton has a map with this name recorded and a previous poster had lived there.

  Colloquially, they were referred to as Sparrow Barracks. 

  It is quite possible that other houses conforming to this pattern were in line to be built. The land at the rear of the labour exchange was originally intended to be built on, but wasn't.

 Where the church was built (Dennis Street/Victoria Road). Two square areas had been marked out. The middle one became the Co Op garage and the rear one became a compound for the garage.

 

 TBI:- you may be close to the truth about the origin of the naming. Have done a bit of rummaging and it turns out that people like the Tippler brothers, whilst being recorded as carriers with a regular service between Carlton Station and Nottingham, were also hay dealers and carriers. A few others involved in coal and other transport were also hay dealers and carriers.

 Hay wains were strong four wheelers, makes sense to utilise them in other ways. Coal and other minerals would be arriving daily. People were burning coal in all these new houses, would have to be transported. Hay wagons initially would have been a logical solution.

 Would explain why a lot of coal dealers were also hay dealers.

 

This is only supposition on my part, as I haven't as yet found any evidence.

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Please keep it coming DA,  I'm learning from it.  I was sent to Sunday school at the Methodist church at Dennis street and Victoria rd.  It may be where I got my first liking for the organ.  Thay had a nice pipe organ.     Even at that young age I remember wondering why there was nothing on the land next door.

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  Thanks Loppy, been sliding down a few dead ends attempting to find how they came to be built and why they don't seem to appear on any map. ( not helped with libraries being closed.)

 A slight deviation here, 5 newly erected houses for sale in John Street, Netherfield. February 1907. This seems to date John Street but doesn't aid the query in hand. It also possibly indicates a variation in the road layout we see today. For those thinking I am smoking a funny cigarette, John Street became Dunstan Street.

 Another slight wobble:- assuming the house numbers remained the same when Wainmans Terrace changed name to Devonshire Cottages; in 1930, a miner living at No 3 was severely injured in a roof fall.

 Returning to TSB's second query, Matthew Mann and John Woolley were both on Dunstan Street in 1894. John Trueman was also the sanitary inspector and was still carrying out these duties in 1911. He was also a cottager. Thomas Musson was also a cottager, cow keeper, hay and straw dealer as well as coalman, he was Station Road, as was William Gell and Matthew Tilley( Urban / Station Road.)

 The Midland Rly had a coal wharf adjacent to Wright Street and the G N R's was situated on a road to the left just before Netherfield Lane crossing. I can't remember whether the LNWR had their own coal wharf, or used the GN's. Having a foggy moment here.

 

 Cliff Ton:- if you have access to 

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      Only half of what I have written has been posted! 

     I can't find the missing section, any ideas or has it disappeared into the ether?

 

     Cliff Ton :- if you have access to picture the past, there is a photograph of Netherfield Lane signal box and railway house, beyond the signal box can be seen the roof and rear wall of the co op garage. Is it possible to post it on here?

 

    The rest of my post will have to be rewritten another day.

 

    Anyone out there have problems posting?

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DA....It is a possibility that you lost some of your post because the system may have logged you out.  It seems to me like when you are in the text editor the system sees no activity and thinks you've gone.  I've had it happen to me a time or two.  Sometimes I find it better to use a separate text editor then copy and paste it into the NS text editor when you are ready.  Just a thought.

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