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Was a bit too late to edit 1st post, but after looking at it found you need to go "back" to view main page, below is a photo from there of the actual Bagthorpe Junction, (just the set of points!) bagthorpejunction.jpg The left hand line comes from The Rathole. The right hand line went to Basford North Station and The GNR.

The actual side of Valley Road Bridge can be seen, plus the smoke deflectors under Perry Road Bridge and in the distance New Basford Station

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Found some more http://daveseastmidlandsandlincsrailwayarchive.fotopic.net/p59809221.html not sure why but he has titled a few New Basford when if fact they are Basford North or on GNR, one however shows the catch points between Perry and Haydn Roads which featured in the big derailment I've mentioned that no one else has ever heard of!

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There,s also a good pic of "the big hole" at victoria, it says something like 2009 but dates from May 1974, to the left of the tunnel mouth roughly in front of some white on the cliff face is a clear area on the ground without "the scarring of track removal" here was the north end turntable, the site best seen from high up in the flats on a frosty day! Also seen within the hole on the left "cliff" is the cut in flight of steps to get to the top! whilst non railway sites of interest are Huntingdon Street School, the old gas depot offices on corner of Woodborough Road and perfectly good housing that could have been upgraded instead of demolished in the name of progress.

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I hear a lot about 'The Rathole' on here, what was it and where was Bagthorpe junction?

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thanks, found bagthorpe junction but not Rat Hole? also can see basford epidemic hospital, not heard of that one before

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Susyshoes, On the map where Park Lane and the railway cross you will see a single line going from left to right just below words Basford East Junction, you will see this then crosses "main lines" just above word tunnel, that is site of the rathole, said line then swings round to join the GCR up line towards Nottingham

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Interesting 'error' on that map.

To the best of my knowledge there were no sidings on the 'up' side to the north of Bagthorpe Junction. This would have meant that they were cut into the side of the GC line embankment.

The GN carriage sidings were on the down line side between Bagthorpe Junction and Basford east junction.

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Yes indeed...

That was also my reaction when I saw the map.

Certain that there were never ever such operational sidings and, as you say, it would have been physically impossible!

Can only think that a short-term temporary siding might have been there for spoil removal at the time of construction?

Cheers

Robt P

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True, not a "railway" map though and things on such often an impression, ie the gn sidings shown as just one line when there were 8, and think at one time one of those used as an "up" from Basford and Bulwell to bagthorpe junction proper before rathole route completed? the idea of the sidings must have come from somewhere though? maybe as Rob said?

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Can only think that a short-term temporary siding might have been there for spoil removal at the time of construction?

I think your theory may be correct.

Digging around on the old OS maps website, and 1901 shows this............

sidings.jpg

But move on to the map dated around 1910-15 and those extra sidings have disappeared

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If you look at 2nd photo in posting no.40 "old railway tunnels" the missing sidings would have been on raised land to right of rathole line, I got impression when I first saw that photo that embankment could not have been the GCR mainline one, fading memory tells me such much higher? and latest Cliff Ton 1901 map does indeed show lots of land between the lines where sidings would have been

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Susyshoes, On the map where Park Lane and the railway cross you will see a single line going from left to right just below words Basford East Junction, you will see this then crosses "main lines" just above word tunnel, that is site of the rathole, said line then swings round to join the GCR up line towards Nottingham

got it thank you

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On reflection, the cost of tunnelling, grading and landscaping the whole single line that became the Rathole must have been many times more expensive (and inconvenient) than simply routeing the down line alongside the up track. viz: Leaving Basford North, then taking a right fork, and arriving at Bagthorpe Jct at the opposite spur, to actuality.

Wonder why that more straightforward option wasn't taken?

Cheers

Robt P.

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Maybe.......

Is it something to do with the whole principle of the Great Central having a straight run everywhere with no interruptions?. Would the GC have said "keep your line out of our way so that our trains don\t have to slow down" and the only way to do that was to dig a complicated hole

Similar to the old junction at Meadow Lane where the up suburban line had to come round, over, and and wide of the Midland Line and GNR, because those companies didn't want the upstart getting in their way

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Exactly that reason, as mentioned earlier originally there were double "up and down" lines from The GNR crossing Arnold Road running side by side on separate bridge spans up to bagthorpe junction, maybe that crossover there in photo looking back to Perry Rd is original? The 2 separate spans, only feet apart lasted in place till beeching closure with the "up" line in use as a feed to and from 8 sidings on the "GNR Bagthorpe Curve"

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Don't get on this site often enough these days, but when I do I'm not disappointed. Great photos, thanks.

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Found this last night, The GCR Mainline Bridge over Arnold Road

girder-underbridge_671281arnoldrd.jpg

If you look "through the bridge" the fencing on the left guards the exit etc from the rathole whilst that on the right does similar for the rising line from there. The 2 photos in post no.40 in "old railway tunnels" would have been taken from that bridge over the line

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Maybe.......

Is it something to do with the whole principle of the Great Central having a straight run everywhere with no interruptions?. Would the GC have said "keep your line out of our way so that our trains don\t have to slow down" and the only way to do that was to dig a complicated hole

Similar to the old junction at Meadow Lane where the up suburban line had to come round, over, and and wide of the Midland Line and GNR, because those companies didn't want the upstart getting in their way

I think what Rob is saying is why didn't the GNR take off the down spur after the line had crossed under the GCR heading east, this wouldn't have affected the GCR mainline in anyway whatsoever and as for the GNR line to Daybrook, it was hardly the ECML. It may have caused programming problems for trains heading towards Derby, as possibly more traffic was routed via Victoria, but I don't imagine that there was that much traffic coming in from the Daybrook direction apart from iron ore trains to Stanton from High Dyke, but I doubt whether they were every 5 minutes.

Incidentally, slight change of subject, I went up to Denby to visit my brother last weekend, who lives in the old Denby railway station/station masters house,that he has lovingly restored. The old track is still in-situ alongside the original platform next to his house, though amazingly overgrown with trees growing through the tracks, incredible to think that the last train up there was as recent as 1997! I battered my way through the the brambles and undergrowth to find the siding turnouts, spurs and point levers for Denby sidings still in place, remarkable. What is interesting is that a consortium has been set up with a view to restoring the line and putting back the track from Denby to Ripley and running passenger trains into Derby, their aims are to start this work this year, cloud cuckoo land or what, have any of you heard of this scheme, they have a web site, I'll publish it when I can find it.

I'm sure that these people must have been influenced by the progress on the Ecclesbourne Valley line from Duffield to Wirksworth which we went to investigate. It seems that, despite their proffesionalism at restoring this railway, Network Rail are refusing to put back the junction with the Derby line at Duffield, shame on them. The EVL however are currently restoring the old platform at Duffield, though I noticed that Network Rail had put a nice big fence up between their station and the EVL platform, typical of NR.

Nice place to go to Wirksworth, tidy railway centre with some lovely restored 1950's DMU's, fantastic, unspoilt town with a great micro brewery in the town centre, please patronise them, their beer is amazing.

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In 1900 216 trains a day went along the GNR through Basford and Bulwell Station, over 24 hrs that's one every 6 and a bit minutes on average

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In 1900 216 trains a day went along the GNR through Basford and Bulwell Station, over 24 hrs that's one every 6 and a bit minutes on average

Thats off the Vic line then, which proves my point.

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Not at all, most were "straight through" to and from Colwick including 2 daily coal trains of over 1000 tons total just to feed the 200+ locomotives at the sheds there. the LNWR ran 12 coal trains through plus a goods train that ended up at Manvers Street daily and both the GCR and North Staffs Railway ran trains to Colwick and the total midnight to midnight was 235 trains, in October 1899 at Arno Vale summit

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