Bubblewrap 3,815 Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 With that in mind where did all the sandstone go when the Victoria Station was built? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StephenFord 866 Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 I'm risking a fearful ear-bashing in saying this, but I'm not convinced that the service on the GC route to and from London was ever all that brilliant. I may be missing something from the middle years, but from the timetables I have been able to source there were no trains that really set the world on fire. In 1902 there were 11 trains to London and 10 coming back. The fastest were the 16.09 from Nottingham Vic at 2 hours 33 minutes, and the 13.40 and 15.25 from Marylebone at 2 hours 31. The 15.25 was non-stop from Marylebone to Sheffield, Nottingham being served by a "slip coach" dropped from the back of the train on the approach to Leicester, and then worked forward to Nottingham and principal stations to Grimsby and Cleethorpes. By 1947 (the railways still being fairly run-down after the war) there were only 7 trains to London (the first at 06.20 taking 4 and a half hours, and the 12.50 dragging it out to 5 and a half!) There were 6 trains northbound. The fastest were the Master Cutler in each direction - 8.38 from Nottingham Vic taking 2 hours 37 (this being the only timing under 3 hours), and the 18.15 from Marylebone taking 2 hours 45. By 1956 there was one more service in each direction. (The miserable 06.20 survived and the wretched 12.50 had become 13.15 and mended its pace to "only" 5 hours 10 minutes!) The fastest trains were still the Master Cutler - southbound at 8.46 taking 2 hours 38, and northbound at 18.18 taking 2 hours 41. It is only fair to say that the Midland route was no better, with 7 southbound and 6 northbound trains in 1947, with best timings of 2 hours 35 on the 13.25 from Nottingham Midland, and 2 hours 25 for the 08.55 from St Pancras. This had been much improved by 1962 (the Great Central certainly hadn't!) but even so, only 5 out of 14 southbound trains reached St Pancras in less than 2 hours 15 (including the little-used midday Midland Pullman trip). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Merthyr Imp 729 Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 The good old standby 'Rail Centres: Nottingham' by Michael A. Vanns has some information about this. My guess is the late 1930s would likely have seen the fastest Great Central Line services, as by the time things were getting back to normal after the war-time run-down of the railways the Great Central services themselves were being run down. The above book lists some timings for both the Midland and GCR routes in 1939 before war broke out. Out of a total of 12 services (6 each way) the fastest times between Victoria and Marylebone were two services taking 2hr 16min, and one each at 2hr 17min and 2hr 19min. The Midland route had a total of 21 services (10 southbound and 11 northbound), with 9 of these taking less than 2hr 15min. Four of these took just 2hr 3 min (via Melton and Corby), with two via Leicester at less than 2hr 10min. The book also gives similar details for 1949, when the fastest timings were three trains at around 2hr 30min, all on the Midland route via Melton and Corby. Fastest on the GCR were the two named trains, The South Yorkshireman and The Master Cutler at 2hr 42min (fastest) and just over. When I first began travelling to any extent by train to London in the early 1970s the fastest I can remember was 1hr 56min calling at Leicester only, but as a general rule you were thinking of two hours or just over as a typical timing. Then the HSTs came in, and I think around 1hr 40min became the norm, with 2hours for 'stopping' services. Not sure what it is now, but I was amazed today to get from St Pancras to Leicester in just 1hr 2min. Although in making a comparison you could say trains from St Pancras nowadays have a head start on those in the old days, seeing as they now commence their run from a point a lot nearer to Nottingham than they used to! #429 The book I mention does give a rather vague mention to what happened to the material excavated from the Victoria Station site. In connection with the bridging of the River Trent and the Midland station it says that by October 1895, 'foundations for these structures were well advanced. Unfortunately fabrication of the steelwork did not begin until March the following year and erection of the Midland bridge did not begin until September. The rest of the line south was almost ready by this time, and it had been intended to use the material excavated from the central station [i.e. Victoria] to make up the ground for the new goods yard near the Trent. As this was not possible, extra land at Ruddington had to be acquired from where the necessary material could be obtained. So that the excavations for Nottingham station would not be delayed either, it was decided to transport spoil northwards to be tipped at Bulwell.' But it doesn't say where! ' Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TRD 196 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 30 nostalgic pictures of Nottingham Victoria Station courtesy of the Evening Post http://www.nottinghampost.com/pictures/Nottingham-Victoria-Station-Pictures/pictures-28753440-detail/pictures.html#1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bubblewrap 3,815 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Photo 5 is NOT Nottingham Victoria Photo 21 is NOT Nottingham Victoria Photo 23 is Nottingham Midland 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TBI 2,351 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Only 3 wrong out of 30, not bad for NP. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StephenFord 866 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Re #429 - thanks Merthyr - that adds a bit of balance to what I said. I think the general principle is that both routes were running on a pretty even basis - neither was obviously "better" whatever that might mean. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bubblewrap 3,815 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 #430 I don't know where photo 21 was taken or when but it certainly ain't Victoria Suggest Leicester Midland Photo 23 was taken by the late Frank Stevenson ARPS and was taken just before Nationalisation I have the same photo In a publication(Nottingham in Focus) featuring Frank's work published by The Evening Post in 1989 And I think photo 30 is also Nottingham Midland looking at the bridges in the top L/H corner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ValuerJim 277 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Not seen photo 29 before. What a great shot! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bubblewrap 3,815 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Lots more photos here of Victoria Station https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=nottingham+victoria&client=ubuntu&hs=yeX&channel=fs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwim-YeX7__KAhWKuxQKHQbLDAMQ_AUICCgC&biw=1700&bih=903 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff Ton 10,435 Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Pity it wasn't possible to ever see one of these at Victoria. When it came to steam locos, the Americans knew how to do it. Apparently the wheels were illuminated (the white parts) which must've looked amazing at night. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ValuerJim 277 Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 #135. Systema, what school uniform are they wearing? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff Ton 10,435 Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 The post was made over 3 years ago and Systema hasn't logged in since December 2013, so I doubt you'll get a reply. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ValuerJim 277 Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Yes, I was afraid of that, but you never know Cliff. It's just that one of the boys looks a lot like I did. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff Ton 10,435 Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 One I hadn't seen before. Looking towards Weekday Cross and the Thurland Street tunnel; building the Great Central. And Drury Hill just off to the left. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Basford Lad 2 Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Really appreciate the photos here. Especially of Bagthorpe Junction and environs as I grew up on Heatherley Drive. My mum said that her mother used to say troops going to war would be shouting and laughing out the train windows etc during WW2 going away but then all quiet and somber with just pale faces at the windows on the return journey. I wonder if this is correct and troops would have used this line or one of these family 'Chinese whispers' stories? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Merthyr Imp 729 Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Just now, Basford Lad said: I wonder if this is correct and troops would have used this line or one of these family 'Chinese whispers' stories? I should think it's quite possible, Basford Lad, this was a main line after all, and could very well have been a main route for troops to reach the south coast. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,108 Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 There was a piece on East Midlands News yesterday about a proposal to build a Railway Museum at Leicester North on the Great Central preserved line. It would fully explain the history of the GC. I hope it comes to fruition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Basford Lad 2 Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 7 minutes ago, Merthyr Imp said: I should think it's quite possible, Basford Lad, this was a main line after all, and could very well have been a main route for troops to reach the south coast. Thanks for the reply. Its a mental image that has always stuck with me so I'm glad it is likely accurate. Looking over the forum about local railway lines it seems a great shame so many have gone. Especially now with our roads so crowded! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bubblewrap 3,815 Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 #436 This loco & most American Locos would have been too big even for the GCRs generous loading gauge Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mark_A 14 Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 But for the legal hurdles, it might be a worthwhile challenge to use a drone to take a 'Then and now' photo or two from the original locations of Tom Boustead's historic photos at the likes of Bagthorpe Junction. Given the legal hurdles, it might be easier to have the loan of a cherrypicker though - if one of those offered sufficient height that is. Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
albert smith 803 Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Came across this pic. whilst looking for Compounds. 8748383596_0964f7d445_b Quote Link to post Share on other sites
albert smith 803 Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 If at first etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oztalgian 3,218 Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 On the 18th January is the 40th anniversary of Australia's worst railway disaster when 83 people died and 210 were injured when a Sydney bound commuter train travelling on the up main line derailed and hit a bridge support at the Bold Street Bridge bringing the bridge down on the third and fourth carriages. It was one of the most significant events of this type of my early years in OZ This has always puzzled me, how do you determine which is the up or down line? A google search was confusing and did not help. I suppose that the concept of up or down varies on where you are at the time or where you are going to or from. When going into Nottingham do you go down town or up to town? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Merthyr Imp 729 Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Generally speaking the up line is usually the one leading to the major destination at one end of the line, with down in the other direction. This is always the case where the line carries trains heading to London. For example, trains from Nottingham to London are up trains and in the other direction they are down trains. Another example might be the line from Mansfield to Nottingham - trains heading for Nottingham would be up trains. 'Generally speaking' is the operative phrase though! Just to confuse the issue, here in South Wales, although Cardiff is the major destination, trains heading up the valleys away from Cardiff to places like Merthyr Tydfil or Caerphiily are classed as up trains because they are literally heading uphill. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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