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Just goes to show that you "can't always believe what you read" as just been looking at Railways In And Around Nottngham, an excellent book written by V Forster and W Taylor, I've owned it since 1991 and read it many times yet only tonight noticed the following talking about a train

"It started at Basford North and rather than take the direct route to Nottingham Victoria it dived under the GC Main Line near Bagthorpe Junction and continued it's journey "round the back" via Daybrook, Gedling, and Colwick arriving at Victoria from the south" :crazy:

Oh No It Didn't! lol

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A junior boy’s memory. In the late 40s, one Saturday morning, this young lad and his brother would be squeezed into a taxi along with baby brother’s pram and all the luggage plus mam and dad and

A P.Bucket test? or a rail photo with a difference. It was so difficult to do I didn't have the heart to break it up so I framed it!

"It started at Basford North and rather than take the direct route to Nottingham Victoria it dived under the GC Main Line near Bagthorpe Junction and continued it's journey "round the back" via Daybrook, Gedling, and Colwick arriving at Victoria from the south" :crazy:

Oh No It Didn't! lol

Ashley

The above statement appears to be quite true to me. Can you explain why you think it is not?

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I see what you mean NNSC, though you must admit it would hardly have "dived" under the GC? I think I made the mistake because of a caption I used re a photo in my book "B1 no.61381 is about to dive under the Great Northern Mainlines" re a loco going into the rathole

!hungr! Bring on the humble pie!

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as firbeck says lol, for if it had dived under the GC Main Line then it WOULD have took the direct route to Victoria, to do as it did (Daybrook,Gedling,Colwick etc) it would have had to stay on the GN

As in the photo below, taken from the said book, I think the writers must have meant that the train from Basford North is taking a dive 'only' under the GCR, which would make their statement correct and not below both GNR & GCR which would make your statement correct.

rathole001-1-1.jpg

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As in the photo below, taken from the said book, I think the writers must have meant that the train from Basford North is taking a dive 'only' under the GCR, which would make their statement correct and not below both GNR & GCR which would make your statement correct.

????????????????????????

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as stated you (and they) are right, I am wrong. Getting a few good pics now to show the layout of Bagthorpe junction etc, The next photo in that book (115) is good, shows the incline and where those mystery sidings mentioned in an earlier post could have been, wonder if anyone ever took a face on picture from heathfield estate showing incline rising from right to left? Also missing are photos of the down Bagthorpe to Basford North station line and the bridge(s) over Arnold Rd carrying such

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mystery sidings mentioned in an earlier post could have been, wonder if anyone ever took a face on picture from heathfield estate showing incline rising from right to left? Also missing are photos of the down Bagthorpe to Basford North station line and the bridge(s) over Arnold Rd carrying such

Not exactly the view you are referring to, but did you notice THIS photo of the Bagthorpe/Rathole area, from one of the two fotopic sites mentioned at the beginning of this thread.

It's a different angle on the subject looking north with Heathfield on the left

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Now this has thrown me! when I said Heathfield I meant the estate which would have been to the right looking north? It is looking north as I can see Bulwell Church and Rolls Royce Hucknall, and am I right thinking the "Watts building" was the steel suppliers on Arnold Rd? if so then the road to the left of what I assume is the GCR mainline is Heatherley Drive? the line going to the left the spur to Basford North GNR? the wall to right of loco part obscured by steam part of Valley Rd bridge? and the line from the rathole right of Bagthorpe Junc signal box? ( left click with curser on pic to get long view of scene)

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Have to agree with Lord Radcliffe...which is rather a rarity!

The Austerity is heading up the GC, having just crossed Valley Rd, en route to Nottm Vic etc.

The row of council housing on the left is Heatherley Drive.

Line from the Rathole is featured alongside Bagthorpe Jct box...

Heathfield Road/Harmiston Rise sited out of picture, to the right.

Cheers

Robt P.

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Lord Radcliffe? a simple Sir would suffice, then I could quote my favourite actor Robert Shaw "Cut out the sir" (film Battle of Britain) Sorry if I come across as a know it all, my last few posts prove I don't! now dressed in sackcloth with ashes

isitsafe

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SWScan00004-1.jpg

Another view from the opposite embankment showing the rathole incline, it's a fair old climb! Going back to that last photo sent in by Cliff Ton the Bagthorpe curve to the left seems level, I guess to get over Arnold Road? and whilst it did not have to drop underground it must have been a steep drop "t'other" side of the road? I also wonder if in fact the GCR had as much work on to build Bagthorpe Junction as we imagine? true there was (still is in parts) a massive mainline embankment from Valley Rd to beyond Arnold Rd but looking at the photos and bearing in mind the incline of Arnold Rd to me it appears most of the land within the railway area was naturally higher ground?

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The trailing crossovers, being used by the 3 loco's in that picture, rather support my earlier expressed view that it would have been more viable to lay the 'up' Rathole line alongside the 'down' line to Basford North - thereby doing away with the huge extra expense of tunneling and excavating, incurred on the Rathole construction.

Cheers

Robt P.

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Theres another photo in that book taken pre 2nd war of a "large Atlantic 3286" on the up GCR just south of Valley Rd pulling a long train of coaches from the Bagthorpe Curve sidings with about half the train on the down GC and last few coaches still on the curve, so at least in LNER and BR days they weren't that bothered re mainline delays but as surmised I guess it was a case of avoiding such when the GC planned/built? reinforced I think by another similar dive under junction from sidings within the Bulwell Common complex south of the station there

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Theres another photo in that book taken pre 2nd war of a "large Atlantic 3286" on the up GCR just south of Valley Rd pulling a long train of coaches from the Bagthorpe Curve sidings with about half the train on the down GC and last few coaches still on the curve, so at least in LNER and BR days they weren't that bothered re mainline delays but as surmised I guess it was a case of avoiding such when the GC planned/built? reinforced I think by another similar dive under junction from sidings within the Bulwell Common complex south of the station there

The only viable route from Basford (North) carriage sidings to the up GC was through the crossover. To use the rathole would entail drawing the stock into and perhaps through Basford North station, running round and then taking the train through the rathole. I don't know if there was a crossover at the western end of Basford North which would have allowed this move but it would cetainly take up quite a bit of time and consequently block both of the lines to and from Derby.

I have some video, taken from film, of returning football specials departing from the sidings over the crossover, very late in the afternoon, hauled by various Bulleid pacifics.

The other Dive under was north of Bulwell Common station where the line diverged to join the Leen valley extension of the GNR at Bestwood Junction, the line running parallel to the MR Leen Valley line but on the opposite side of Bestwood Road(?)

I would think that the burrowing junctions were specified at the time of building to avoid conflicting movements on what was planned to be a very busy line, and certainly a high speed line. Remember there was only one level crossing on the GC all the way from Manchester to London.

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Not sure of the route the 9F/B16 etc in the photo took to turn round, guess it depended on it's starting point? was also confused by a few photos in that book I mentioned that showed trains on GC up having passed the signal box but not yet reached bagthorpe curve, I knew the box had been moved when the new bridge built but always assumed the earlier one had been Basford side of the tracks and was certain photo below was looking east, now realise it's looking west but it took me ages to visualise that! not helped by embankment appearing to fall left to right. vroadbox.jpg

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As the caption states that the trio had come from Annesley, they would stop beyond the crossovers then reverse on the down line to Basford North and then change again (to be headed by the B16, once more) to take the steeply graded spur to Bulwell Common - thus completing the 'triangle' turning process.

Recall seeing, from Bulwell Forest top, a pair of 01's do that same manoeuvre in the mid-50's...

Apparently the Annesley turntable was often prone to breakdown, due to its excessive work load.

Cheers

Robt P.

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  • 3 months later...

Blimey what a coincidence , you must have been stood right next to each other ........................................slywink

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The other Dive under was north of Bulwell Common station where the line diverged to join the Leen valley extension of the GNR at Bestwood Junction, the line running parallel to the MR Leen Valley line but on the opposite side of Bestwood Road(?)

The dive

BulwellCommonDive.jpg

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Another great "unseen picture", only a few miles from my train spotting patch but in those days didn't know such existed! did see it when track removed, in fact walked under it, must have been in my 30's though before I did, Around that time most of the GC route remained virtually untouched though some sidings already built upon? the "carriage ones" at St Albans Rd spring to mind, I think those bungalow there actually built whilst main line still in use, I used to go exploring the routes, sometimes walking sometimes on motorbikes, found little of souvenirs railways wise, the odd wagon plate up wrigleys works, a signal arm from a grantry on GC bridge over the trent spring to mind plus previously mentioned signal lamp from weekday cross tunnel, non railway items found in same era and on the former lines included a broken into safe! along with paperwork from such (but no money! :angry: ) and a pair of stockings and suspender belt! :wub:

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