Railway Photos

[nnsc 131]

is that St Albans Road on the right?

It certainly is.

[Ashley 288]

Was looking closely at houses in that photo to see if I could see the one that Canberra plane from Hucknall clipped before crashing on the sidings but a bit too far away? I thought there were more sidings here but it looks "original" (the cutting etc) maybe such were further up, the other side of the station access bridge seen in the distance, such of course is still there though vastly different but still with former stationmaster's house on the corner, I take it the single line the other side of the GC mainlines is the "up" from the GN junction? The GN from what I can see crossed the MR a couple of times in the area from here before all 3 routes crossed Linby Lane north of Hucknall, The MR via a level crossing, The GN went under, and The GC went over, All 3 routes very close to one another.

[rob237 89]

Yes...the 'main' sidings (which ran to half a dozen tracks, or more) were the other side of the station. Often busy in the 50's, with ever-changing rakes of the ubiquitous 16T mineral wagons, that was where the Canberra finished up...

IIRC, the single siding - featured in the photo' - was merely used as a headshunt.

From the excellent picture, rather surprised at the length of the solo Class 25 hauled wagons - must run to 50+, although empties...doubt it could have handled such a loaded number!

Also surprising that the up GC main line retains bullhead rail - at that late stage.

Cheers

Robt P.

[Ashley 288]

there you go again rob, baffling me with science!

[Cliff Ton 10,457]

To complete the set, because I hope this one hasn't been posted before, here's the reverse angle. The line down to the Dive is just beginning on the left.

And you can just see St Alban's Road to the left of the Signal Box

[Ashley 288]

Would you say that "light strip" jutting out from behind the right of the signal box roof (just below half way) is the continuing route of the dive? there looks to be an embankment above/behind such which can't be seen in the main pic. When I used to walk/explore the area all the bridges cuttings embankments etc were in place and the track impression could be seen in places, seem to recall the station platforms in place but no buildings, signal boxes or signals remained

[Cliff Ton 10,457]

Would you say that "light strip" jutting out from behind the right of the signal box roof (just below half way) is the continuing route of the dive? there looks to be an embankment above/behind such which can't be seen in the main pic.

I'd guess that light strip is the edge of the embankment which isn't apparent on the diesel photo (although it would be to the right of the train as you look at the photo)

When I used to walk/explore the area all the bridges cuttings embankments etc were in place and the track impression could be seen in places, seem to recall the station platforms in place but no buildings, signal boxes or signals remained

And having a look at the Old Maps shows the Signal Box and other features

[nnsc 131]

Yes...the 'main' sidings (which ran to half a dozen tracks, or more) were the other side of the station. Often busy in the 50's, with ever-changing rakes of the ubiquitous 16T mineral wagons, that was where the Canberra finished up...

IIRC, the single siding - featured in the photo' - was merely used as a headshunt.

Cheers

Robt P.

A shot of the sidings

[Ashley 288]

Not exactly busy was it? recall such around 1963 when iIrc those sidings full of carriages that never seem to move? nowt to do with me but also recall a raid by assume transport police on kids who were "partying" in such, (headline news in evening post back then!) Given the capacity of those sidings/works etc makes you realise just how much scope there was on the former GC, do you think that the govt, powers that be,(Beeching) who/what ever, would do things differently were it all still there today?

[nnsc 131]

do you think that the govt, powers that be,(Beeching) who/what ever, would do things differently were it all still there today?

Definitely, the infrastructure for public transport and freight movement was already in position in those days, it's just that road transport was seen as and probably still is king.

[Limey 242]

That's an interesting thought. Back in the 50's I don't think anybody foresaw what would happen on the roads and to the cost of fuel. Road transport was seen as quick and efficient. Rail was slow, cumbersome and inefficient. However, if the infrastructure had been maintained, I do think there could be a modern "hub & spoke" model that could efficiently integrate rail transport for long distance hauling with road freight for local distribution. It would make the rail system very different, and would have to be efficient at routing and transferring freight, with high speed freight trains, but I think it could be done. The govt. could help by levying a huge tax on long-distance road freight which could be used to support the railway construction and maintenance.

The public benefit could also be huge - less freight traffic on major roads, smaller trucks on local roads, less congestion and lower highway maintenance requirements. Also safety benefits from having fewer large trucks on major highways.

Just my thoughts...

[Ashley 288]

Limey, you forgot to add "employment in Derby for 3,000"

[Limey 242]

Good point - but I suppose it would put some truck drivers out of work too...

[mick2me 3,033]

Limey, you forgot to add "employment in Derby for 3,000"

You say?

Why was order that could have secured 3,000 jobs in city lost to Germany?

and thats what I say!

[Scriv 168]

Definitely, the infrastructure for public transport and freight movement was already in position in those days, it's just that road transport was seen as and probably still is king.

An often overlooked factor was(and still is to an extent) the vulnerability of the railways to strikes.The whole network was effectively controlled by three unions, NUR, ASLEF and TSSA; effectively, the footplatemen, station staff/shunters/signalmen etc, and junior management.All were until comparatively recently closed shops, and if one went out the other two would not cross the picket lines.

I do think one of the most short-sighted steps in recent railway history was the lack of investment in Freightliner container traffic. Back in the mid-80's, an entrepreneur called Edward Lacoste operated a company called "Overnight Bag" based in King's Cross goods yard. Containers came down from Scotland and the North East via rail, unloaded at Kings Cross and the local consignments went by road; exactly as people have been suggesting for many years. It finished because BR weren't interested in small-time stuff, and then the carriers like Nightfreight sprang up with hubs in the West Midlands, which combined with BR's refusal to allow a similar operation at Beeston, which Edward had offered me as a franchise, killed him off.

[Limey 242]

That sounds exactly like the kind of thing I think could work. Almost the same as the FedEx model over here, except using trains instead of airplanes. Of course, they told Smith (the founder of FedEx) that he would go bankrupt in a month! What nobody understood was the extent to which business would quickly become addicted to the overnight service and Smith made a fortune! (Not bad for an ex-Marine fighter pilot!)

[nnsc 131]

I think this is another shot of 'the dive' taken from a different angle.

[Ashley 288]

Yes looks like it, not being that familiar with the area am still trying to work out from what angle! My first thoughts were that the train was heading south given the hilly background, but now inclined to think the opposite? It's great to see "new" pictures, I take it you must have took such yourself? I don't think I ever took any railway photos bar one of the A4 Dominion of Canada c/w with "cowbell" on Doncaster station aged about 9! well that's only one I recall, did have a few local ones took by the late Don Beecroft but these "lost" (he never did answer my phone calls or letter sent) by printer/publisher of my book. Never seen one of Bulwell Hall Halt, Bestwood Colliery or Butlers Hill stations.

[rob237 89]

The train is certainly heading south...photographer with his back to St Alban's Road.

From the consist, it's almost certainly the well known York-Bournemouth working - which ran almost up to closure.

Agree that pictures of your three nominated stations seem rare...

Have seen a shot of Bulwell Hall Halt...nothing more than a short length of wooden planking!

Walked/drove past Bestwood Colliery station on a daily basis...

Situated at the top end of the 'Bone Mill' footpath, from A610.

Built in a strange elevated manner on a curved embankment, which necessitated access by a flight of steep steps.

Height being due to it's location between the two bridges, which spanned Bestwood Road, within a short distance...

Cheers

Robt P.

[Cliff Ton 10,457]

And here's the Bulwell dive from the opposite side, but also when it was in a half-dismantled state

This is looking south, and you can just see the bridge of Bulwell Common Station in the distance.

The train here has just come out of the dive - except that it isn't really a dive any more because the embankment it used to go under is no longer there.

The GC main line was on the two big embankments which have been half removed

[Ashley 288]

Rob, I knew where Bestwood Station was, (though nowhere near the A610? lol) just never saw it in use or a photo of it, Remember for years the station building at road level stood either derelict or part converted to a house, not sure what the end result was? think the former station masters house had been long since sold off and a private dwelling, also remember the 2 bridges over the road.

Clif, it's funny, but when I explored the dive area long after your photo was taken I'm pretty sure the brick retaining walls seen in the nnsc photo were still there? also on that photo the main line embankments appear a lot lower than on your photo? though that may be different camera angles? Once saw at Victoria Baths a model of the layout, could do with seeing it again! or a 26" (or whatever) to the mile map

[Cliff Ton 10,457]

Rob, I knew where Bestwood Station was, (though nowhere near the A610? lol) just never saw it in use or a photo of it, Remember for years the station building at road level stood either derelict or part converted to a house,

I don't know the area at all, but I'd remembered seeing THIS photo, which I assume is the place you're talking about

when I explored the dive area long after your photo was taken I'm pretty sure the brick retaining walls seen in the nnsc photo were still there? also on that photo the main line embankments appear a lot lower than on your photo? though that may be different camera angles?

I agree about the embankments looking higher. Only thing I can suggest is that sometimes on demolition sites they pile stuff up high before they cart it off (I'm not an expert on it); so maybe those very high mounds of earth are actually higher than the running lines ever were

[Ashley 288]

Yes that's the building I referred to, the "station masters house" (if it was such) was one of those in the distant, just to left of camera position was a bridge over the road

[nnsc 131]

And here's the Bulwell dive from the opposite side, but also when it was in a half-dismantled state

This is looking south, and you can just see the bridge of Bulwell Common Station in the distance.

The train here has just come out of the dive - except that it isn't really a dive any more because the embankment it used to go under is no longer there.

The GC main line was on the two big embankments which have been half removed

I think you're mistaken here Cliff. The dive is still there, as between the hills you can just see a goods train on the main line and the top corner of the bridge over the dive.

[Cliff Ton 10,457]

I think you're mistaken here Cliff. The dive is still there, as between the hills you can just see a goods train on the main line and the top corner of the bridge over the dive.

And I think you're right. I can see what you're referring to; the rock formation in the photo is simply what is in the other half of the dive.

I've marked what I reckon is the camera position on this map. The main line looks further away on the photo than it does on the map !. And more rocks than I would've expected.