Fox and Grapes 1963 - murder


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I remember the fox and grapes murder, as my gran had a couple of poster's up in the café. The reason it was called pretty windows is self explanatory, nothing more mysterious than that! 

Also, it had a license to allow the market trader's to get a drink outside of normal opening times.

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I have finally given birth!      

At last! No more avenues to explore, no more waiting for emails from the National Archives to tell me, "No, you can't have a look!" My short work on the Pretty Windows murder is finally finished!

It's because of this so called snowflake culture we have these problems in todays society, we were all warned by a certain Mr Powel in his "rivers of blood" speech, it was the snowflake culture then t

I was 15 at the time and I remember the police knocking on our door during their house to house enquiries. 

 

My prize possession was a Bowie knife in a leather sheath - my grandma hid it under the mattress!

 

One theme that ran through all the rumours was that the murderer was someone from the gay community and that nobody spoke to the police because they were, at that time, breaking the law!

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  • 2 months later...

Yesterday I found myself in the Pretty Windows enjoying a pint before heading to the Arena and I got to thinking again about the 1963 murder.

 

For my own interest (I love researching mysteries as folks who have read my Francis Lovell piece know) I've decided to collate all of the newspaper articles, rumours etc., regarding the murder of George Wilson and write an article of my own. In deference to any of Mr. Wilson's surviving family it would not be for general publication.

 

If anybody has any more recollections or rumours relating to the murder I'd be very grateful if you could share them with me - either on the forum or by pm. If you pm me I can assure you that it will be treated with the strictest confidentiality and no sources will be divulged!

 

May thanks to those who have already got in touch with me.

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13 minutes ago, AfferGorritt said:

found myself in the Pretty Windows

 

Glad you referred to it as "The Pretty Windows" they missed a trick there.

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  • 5 months later...

Flitting about these threads like a little moth!

 

Mentioned yesterday about completing my "book" (sounds a bit grandiose) but not publishing it due to having to fork out £40 a photo to use stuff from Picture the Past.

 

Just had a thought. If I bought actual prints from PtP at £1.99 each then I assume that they are mine to do what I want with. If I scan those prints and then use the scans to illustrate the book have I infringed copyright?

 

Any barrack room lawyers on here?

 

 

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I rather think you will. Legally copying something is a grey area, think of copying music CDs, it's no different copying a photograph. Probably OK for personal use as a backup but to then pass it on to someone else or publish it and you're in trouble unless you also purchase the 'rights'

 

Edit:

Just had a quick chat with a friend and it may be permissible if you publish  it and give full reference and credit to the rights owner BUT  it's a minefield. 

In reality the chances of anyone raising objections would appear to be slim unless there is money involved.

True story:

A friend in Holland used 'Hello Kitty' as his game name and avatar in a Battlefield computer game. He used it for at least eight years but recently received a 'cease and desist' letter or face legal action form the rights owner.

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I think you have bought the image and have the right to do with as you wish, except copy it or publish it. You can sell it or give it away but if you do you cannot retain a copy.

I must say though I'm NOT a lawyer and relaying this information second hand.

 

I've also found this:

 

https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law

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Thanks for that, Brew. Guess I’m scuppered.

 

Short update for those who don’t want to read the book (don’t blame you!). The fella the police fancied for the murder was Frank Wardle who killed a man in Nottingham in 1965. They went as far as submitting a file to the DPP which was thrown out due to lack of evidence. Difficult to see why they fancied him as the two crimes seems very different in their execution. The file on Wardle is in the National Archives and it’s open, so  I’m planning a trip to Kew.

 

Latest (and new) information on suspects is that a man was found in a garden in a village just outside Nottingham on the morning of the murder covered in blood. He was a regular at the Pretty Windows, was a bit of a lad, and worked along the A52 where the murder weapon was found. Other bits tie in as well, such as a Scottish link which was mentioned on here some years ago. Never reported to the police (until the other week) as he said he’d just been in a fight. I only found that out a few weeks ago, have spoken to the person who found him (happens to be a distant relative) and have absolutely no doubt that what they related was true. Have reported it to the police. Maybe just coincidence, but ....

 

If anything develops I will keep you posted!

 

 

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Sadly jonab this is a daily occurrence in Nottingham these days, look at some one wrong & the knife comes out, make no mistake they will use it.

This is just one aspect of this declining society we live in today, just look around here in Nottingham & see some of the samples breathing the air.

However the Snowflakes will no doubt crawl out & start uttering those immortal words like "Deprived childhood" "No job" etc etc etc.

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It's because of this so called snowflake culture we have these problems in todays society, we were all warned by a certain Mr Powel in his "rivers of blood" speech, it was the snowflake culture then that tried to quieten the bloke,the criminal justice system in this once great country of ours is a joke, the people who are supposed to be running this once great country are a joke, and the criminal classes are taking the piss out of the rest of us and there's no one to stop them for fear of being branded racist or homophobic or too right wing

 

Rog

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On 9/10/2018 at 2:36 PM, plantfit said:

It's because of this so called snowflake culture we have these problems in todays society, we were all warned by a certain Mr Powel in his "rivers of blood" speech, it was the snowflake culture then that tried to quieten the bloke,the criminal justice system in this once great country of ours is a joke, the people who are supposed to be running this once great country are a joke, and the criminal classes are taking the piss out of the rest of us and there's no one to stop them for fear of being branded racist or homophobic or too right wing

 

Rog

And Xenophobic whatever that means !

 

 

Googled it !

 

Xenophobia
Xenophobia is the fear and distrust of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. Xenophobia can involve perceptions of an ingroup towards an outgroup and can manifest itself in suspicion of the ...
 
Guilty as charged M'lud !
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  • 5 months later...

At last! No more avenues to explore, no more waiting for emails from the National Archives to tell me, "No, you can't have a look!" My short work on the Pretty Windows murder is finally finished!

 

I put a link on here some time ago, but the "book" has grown slightly, and been re-written and re-jigged many times since. Also, we have new members who might be interested. I think I've polished it as much as I can, but there's some who say, "You can polish a t**d as much as you like, but it's still a t**d". (Excuse my vulgarity, ladies!)

 

Anyway, for them as wants it you can download a pdf version here ABSOLUTELY FREE! ...

https://1drv.ms/f/s!ApciJlF4GJnwgie-9S883LiT4jud

 

Think I'm going to publish it using one of the web based self-publishing sites like Lulu. As I don't want to make any cash out of others misfortune I thought I'd donate any profits (profits! How vain is that!) to a charity that helps bereaved kids - like George Wilsons. Have found Griefencounter and Winstons Wish, but does anybody else know of a worthy cause?

 

If the link doesn't work, and you'd like to read it, just pm me and I'll send a copy.

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Cars gone in for M.O.T. and the wife's out with a friend , so just had time to download and read this . 

 

Affer G you've done a tremendous amount of research there ! Brilliant stuff , hope you get to publish it .

 To anyone else , it's well worth downloading .

 

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Wow! Thanks very much for those kind words! What with waiting for emails from the National Archives etc. it took much longer than I thought, but I did enjoy all the research. I now feel that the Pretty Windows is very much my local although I don’t visit all that often.

 

I’ve just finished formatting it and uploading to Lulu, an online printing company who also deal with distribution - for a commission! Don’t mind though. Don’t really want to make any profit out of it so all proceeds will be donated to Winston’s Wish - if there are any proceeds of course!

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