William Clay

[poohbear 1,360]

We supplied the South with a couple of warships if I remember correctly...so not surprised if a few Brits got involved.

[mudgie49 401]

King Cotton ,was Americas biggest export,England imported around 85% of their production.It went to all the cotton mills in England,and to Nottingham ,to lace makers and weavers.the cotton import dried up by December 1861.A few blockade runners made it to Liverpool,which amounted to about 1% of what was needed. This led to mass layoffs in the thousands all over England. An estimated 17,000 Englishmen joined regiments on either side of the conflict,most joining with the Confedracy. The Englishmen tended to stick together in the Confederate regiments,and became known as the cotton companies.In all the years I have been researching the War between the States. I have found only 7 graves of soldiers from England,one mentions Bolton Lans,he was George Edwin Smith,killed at the battle of Malvern hill,July 1st 1862,sergeant 3rd Georgia Infantry regiment,buried in the Bonholm cemetery, Savannah Georgia

[OLDACE 196]

We supplied the South with several commerce raiders. The Alabama was the most famous, it had Confederate officers and English crew, ex Royal Navy recruited in Liverpool, also aboard for a time were two German naval observers, and they reported on Captain Raphael Semmes tactics. These tactics were adopted by the Germans and used in both wars.

[OLDACE 196]

Hi Mudgie, I have been interested in The War for Southern Independence since the 60's. In the days when it was possible, libraries would source books. I had books from Sandhurst, The Imperial War Museum, The British Library etc. I even managed to borrow the uncensored version of J.B.Jones 'A Rebel War Clerk's Diary'.

One of the more interesting battles involving what were then British born soldiers was The Battle of Sabine Pass. The 40 odd enlisted men there were Irish dockers from Galveston, as you will know, they repulsed a Yankee invasion force of thousands without a single southern casualty.

Unfortunately many of these died in a yellow fever outbreak a few years after the war.

Regarding William Clay, he was sacrificed by General Grant. In Northern Virginia in 1864 Grant would willingly lose ten thousand men if he could cost the South a third of that number of casualties. His was a war of attrition and poor William Clay was probably a victim of this heartless commmander.

[John boy 1]

This is getting interesting

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

Hi as any one got any old maps or photos of Station rd looking for some old cottages were i was born ( pulled down around 1958)

I have a few maps of the area (scale 50" to the mile) Dated 1952.

Which bit of Station Road? as it is on two maps

[mudgie49 401]

Hi Oldace, U.S. Grant,was known as "butcher" Grant,by his own soldiers,losing around 57,000 men in ten days during the Wilderness campaign.Regarding the Irish during this war,thousands fought and died on both sides.The most famous being the New York "Irish Brigade",using up to 9,000 men in total during it,s existence.

[John boy 1]

Hi Bubblewrap thank you that would be great just across the road from the Post Office.

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

Hi Bubblewrap thank you that would be great just across the road from the Post Office.

There are no buildings opposite the Post Office on Station Road on my map dated July 1952

But ......................... there are some small buildings at the junction of Carlton Hill ,Cavendish Road & Windsor Avenue.

House numbers 2 Windsor Avenue, 2,4 & 6 Carlton Hill.

The building next door to the Post Office is numbered 146 Statioin Road.

PS My grand parents ran a grocers shop on Burton Road till 1958/9

I lived there till 1953 when we moved into a new council house on Welbeck Avenue.

If you woud like a copy of the map or like to see it please E mail me.

I have over 200 of this scale of map covering most of the city.

I also have about 140 larger scale maps! (10 feet to the mile) dated 1880/1/2 these maps only cover the old town area.

[Beefsteak 305]

Any chance you can scan them and then post them onto here Bubble wrap, I love old maps , and especially Carlton (Being born and bred there)

Failing that could I be cheeky and ask if I could borrow them I can have a go at scanning them and getting them on here for you.

The land opposite the Post Office down Station Road was the old telephone exchange by the way , (If that's the P.O. you mean)

[Beefsteak 305]

Begging your pardon, I see you mean the old PO right on the square.

There was a forge (Blacksmiths) there up to some point around then.

I have an old tale (I have recounted it on here somewhere before) regarding a bloke called Cyril Mann who lived up one of the Avenues (Buxton , Belper or Cromford) he stood around 5 foot nothing but was built like an Ox.

As a youngster he used to run into the blacksmiths(Whilst his back was turned) lift his anvil off it's plinth and carry it outside. He used to make the Smithy pay him 5 Park Drive to put it back !!

[mgread1200 141]

Also found another William S Clay 88th New York Infantry wounded at Cold Harbour as you said John Boy, its not possible yet to say which details are right, more research needed!

CLAY, WILLIAM S.—Age, 31 years. Enlisted at New York

city, to serve three years, and mustered in as private, Oo. C,

March 26, 1864; wounded in action, June 3, 1864, at Cold Harbor,

Va.; absent, wounded, at muster-out of company.

Does anyone have still have access to ancestry uk records there is a public family tree with 4 records and a story about the family with samuel and alice clay as the parents

[OLDACE 196]

Hi Midgie, off the top of my head I seem to recall that the 1st Virginia was reccuited from the Richmond Irish,and during the Seven Days Battles they came up against a low number Massachessets Irish Regiment from Boston.

You will have heard of soldier of fortune Sir Percy Windham, he fought for the Yankees in the Shennandoah Valley against Mosby of course, but earlier on he crossed swords with the 7th Louisiana, whose Colonel Rob Wheat recruited from the docks of New Orleans, many Irish in that regiment too. BTW Sir Percy and Rob Wheat had been comrades in arms in Garibaldi's Redshirts.

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

Any chance you can scan them and then post them onto here Bubble wrap, I love old maps , and especially Carlton (Being born and bred there)

Failing that could I be cheeky and ask if I could borrow them I can have a go at scanning them and getting them on here for you.

The land opposite the Post Office down Station Road was the old telephone exchange by the way , (If that's the P.O. you mean)

Maps ars somewhat too large to scan being 2 feet square

And I'm not too sure if the scanner still works as it has not been used for years & I have forgot how to use it

There are 4 maps to one aquare on the inch OS maps

[mudgie49 401]

Hi Oldlace, a great book to read is,Irish Rebels-Confederate tigers,by James P. Gannon.Savas publishing company.Published in 1998,so you should be able to obtain a copy.I left a message on your profile page.

[John boy 1]

The cottagers on Station rd there were 4 in-between the tel exchange and a Billiard room.

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

The cottagers on Station rd there were 4 in-between the tel exchange and a Billiard room.

Set back off the road numbers 87,89,91 & 93.

[mick2me 3,033]

Bubblewrap, photographing them with a digital camera is a good method, you can then easily select the area of interest.

[mudgie49 401]

Re- 88th New York Volunteer Infantry Regiment,5th Regiment "Irish Brigade".Mr,s Meaghers Own,numbered the 4th brigade,1st division,2nd army corps, major general Winfield S. Hancock,Army of the Potomac. The Union army kept reasonably good records,as it was more of a national army. On the other hand,much of the Confederate army were not so good at paperwork. Most of what was recorded,became useful to the conquering Yankee,s one way or another,no soft double ply rolls back then. When doing research in this area,many recruits lied about age,origin,etc, so it would be uncommon for a recruit to record his birthplace as Nottingham,England would have been sufficient. As to Confederate dead ,.they were usualy thrown into shallow trenches,with a wooden headboard saying ,120 dead rebels. Not that they were recorded by anyone. The war is estimated to have cost 671,000 deaths,probably as many as one in six were never identified.

[Beefsteak 305]

671,000 deaths !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus wept, and they didn't even have 'acurate' fire arms either !!

[mick2me 3,033]

Its a good job then, or there would be no one left!

[OLDACE 196]

Hi. Beefsteak, regarding firearms, the South mainly used the Lee Enfield rifle. The Enfield factory in London could not keep up with demand, so many small factories in Birmingham were contracted to manufacture copies. These Birmingham Enfields were not well liked as their parts were not interchangeable. The Enfields Minie balls would shatter bone, often requiring amputation. Yet despite the huge battle casualties, far more men died of disease.

Regard accuracy, there is the famous true tale of Major General Sedgwick, who, on horseback, upon seeing troops taking cover from Southern snipers said 'Colonel why are your men hiding, the rebels couldn't hit an elephant from....', and fell dead with a bullet in his brain.

An English friend of the South sent his friend, who commmanded a Kentucky regiment (one of those in the so-called Orphan Brigade), twelve English Kerr rifles with ammunition, accurate to 1,00o yards. A competition was held in the regiment to find the best shots, and thereafter they targetted officers and artllerymen to great effect.

Snipers on either side would do well to avoid capture, their chances of survival were not good.

It is unlikely William Clay left England with the intention of fighting for the Yankees. Recruiting officers met the immigrant ships in New York, promising all that recruiting officers still do. Alternately he could have been a substitute, taking the place of a drafted rich New Yorker, for a consideration, around 300 dollars would be the right amount. We will never know his motivation unfortunately.

[John boy 1]

Hi Bubblewrap yes that the ones.

[Beefsteak 305]

"The Enfield factory in London could not keep up with demand, so many small factories in Birmingham were contracted to manufacture copies. "

Would these be "The Birmingham Small Arms" companies who later shortened their name to make your favourite toys old Ace ? (BSA)

[OLDACE 196]

I should imagine that any gunsmith in Brum who wanted to, could get the work, the Enfield factory had an early form of mass production so all the parts were interchangable. the Brum Enfields were hand made, so were not so readily repairable.

My first BSA was a 1958 Meteor .22 with telescopic sights, my last one was a 1958 A10 Golden Flash. I think BSA are still extant making machine tools, IIRC they used to make the Herberts.