Avro Vulcan prototype

[Ashley 288]

Bit off topic but seeing as someone mentioned franz von werra etc I wondered if he or others have heard that he wasn't the first to escape, seems another got away to the usa? I also read awhile back of 4 escapees who got away somewhere up north and some if not all actually stole a plane and if I remember right managed to refuel such and were only caught the 2nd time they tried that? The question marks as unsure of the facts. Going back to Von Werra have looked on google maps and from what I see the nearest railway line (he walked along one) was the now preserved Midland Railway Centre line, did he in fact walk along this to Codner Park Station?

[firbeck 859]

Walter Kurt Reich, captured U boat crew, supposedly jumped a Polish troopship in the USA in 1940, Polish Troopship in USA, 1940, why, seems unlikely.

Walter Manhard escaped from Canada but quite rightly preferred to live in the USA, how he got away with it is beyond me.

Von Werra, or our Dutchman Van Lott, escaped from Swanwick, I'd have thought, having visited the former POW 'club' there, he must have walked along the current Midland Railway to get to Codnor Park, after finally escaping and getting back to his Luftwaffe friends in Germany, this erstwhile, boastful Nazi had clearly become rather less infatuated with the Party and more sympathetic to the opinions of the British, I wonder whether his demise was a political coup de tat rather than simply a flying accident.

[Ashley 288]

Well I know Rommel "died of his wounds" but doubt they'd waste a BF109? Yes I came to same conclusion re the railway line, if anyone has or knows of map showing site of Midland codnor park station station I'd like to see it

[firbeck 859]

Well I know Rommel "died of his wounds" but doubt they'd waste a BF109?

Most of the 35,000 built Bf109's were lost in accidents rather than in combant, I've witnessed two serious incidents involving these killers myself, the simple excuse regarding cannon fodder springs to mind, top guns in combat, crap jobs in getting there and landing afterwards.

[firbeck 859]

According to BBC East last night, some very nice anonymous gentleman has made a donation of 500K to keep the Vulcan flying this year, all pre arranged airshow dates are to be honoured, as long as it doesn't go tech of course, or be sent to Ascension, Ian's lens will be working overtime.

[rob237 89]

Good news...thanks to Branson/Ashcroft/Abramovich/£56m Eurolotto winner, whoever...

Why do I have a terrible forboding about this?

As if, when the flying 'novelty' wears off that standards will drop...

Cheers

Robt P.

[Beefsteak 305]

According to BBC East last night, some very nice anonymous gentleman has made a donation of 500K to keep the Vulcan flying this year, all pre arranged airshow dates are to be honoured, as long as it doesn't go tech of course, or be sent to Ascension, Ian's lens will be working overtime.

Didn't I put this down in writing on the 25th of Feb , about 10 posts back ??? (Posts 317 and 322)

[Beefsteak 305]

I know if I'd won the euro lottery I'd have done it !!

Funny you should mention that Rob , but on another site I'm on I kidded it was me that had paid it, and pretended to be the Euro lottery winner !! (I didn't stick around for the applause !!!)

[firbeck 859]

Sorry matey, I heard then that it was mainly pledges and not a big single donation, I wonder what the real truth is, however trust the BBC to be a week behind, but I think it was in the context of a confirmation from Lowestoft Council that the Tin Triangle was definately down for their airshow.

Incidentally, I think I'd prefer to give my Euro Lottery win to other causes, I suspect that funding for the Vulc will be a nightmare every year, fantastic to see it fly, but it will always be a bottomless pit.

By the way, I was wasting time watching the X-Men movie a couple of weeks ago, never seen it before, good actors, shame about the script. However in one scene, the baddies/goodies/whatever were walking across an airport to their private jet and behind them on the tarmac was a Lancaster!! I was astonished.

[Limey 242]

...and behind them on the tarmac was a Lancaster!! I was astonished.

Possibly Hamilton, Ontario - the home of the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum - and the second, flying, Lanc! Also, the area is very popular with film makers these days!

[firbeck 859]

Thats what I suspected, must look it up on IMDB.

Yup, it was indeed Hamilton, no mention on IMDB of one of Britains finest though, albeit Canadian built.

And I'd definately put my lottery money into Just Jane to make it 3 of these flying legends.

Incidentally, they're hoping to have 7 B-17's flying at an airshow in the States this year, can't remember where it is, hopefully near you, I was lucky enough to see five of them in the air when they were making Memphis Belle, but that's another story.

[Beefsteak 305]

There's a fair old chance that there could be three flying 'Lancs' before too long, as "Just Jane" (East Kirkby Museum, Lincolnshire) has recieved some cash and purchassed 'new' Merlin engines for her . They are continuing work and are hoping to have her fully air worthy in the not too distant future.

http://www.lincsaviation.co.uk/

Bottom right of this web site

[firbeck 859]

There's a fair old chance that there could be three flying 'Lancs' before too long, as "Just Jane" (East Kirkby Museum, Lincolnshire) has recieved some cash and purchassed 'new' Merlin engines for her .

I've been following this story for some time, it's great news, the sound of a Lanc in the air is unbeatable, two together would be unimaginable, 3 and you'd have to hose me down. It's the Mosquito we sorely miss though, the Bae example was just about to be passed on to the BBMF before it's sad demise.

[firbeck 859]

There's a fair old chance that there could be three flying 'Lancs' before too long, as "Just Jane" (East Kirkby Museum, Lincolnshire) has recieved some cash and purchassed 'new' Merlin engines for her .

I've been following this story for some time, it's great news, the sound of a Lanc in the air is unbeatable, two together would be unimaginable, 3 and you'd have to hose me down. It's the Mosquito we sorely miss though, the Bae example was just about to be passed on to the BBMF before it's sad demise.

[Limey 242]

Kermit Weeks also has a complete one in "boxes" down at Fantasy of Flight in Florida - also worth a visit if you are in the area. Be sure to take the "back lot" tour - through the warehouses with all the "stuff" - including the only remaining, never run, Merlin engines in the world - 25 of them I believe!

They also fly one of the planes every afternoon - when we were there Kermit himself did the flying, and happily spent about an hour on the tarmac afterwards talking about the plane (a Storch), and the museum. It was impressive in that he clearly loves warbirds, and is happy to talk to ANYBODY about them!

Regularly see a B-17 over our house - there is one based at the Ypsilanti airport about 15 miles away - also one of the locations that built them during the war (Rosie the Riveter worked there)!

[firbeck 859]

I've said before on here, I'm no fan of Kermit Weekes, he's bought some great British icons and allowed them to rot away, a very rich man playing games with aviation history.

Why does he need 25 zero hour Merlins, whats he going to do with them, admire his hoard while the Pantons need new engines for Just Jane, I bet he won't do a deal with them.

I recall the Strathallan B-35 Mosquito, obtained by Kermit Weekes, flown to Florida, then allowed to rot and delaminate so that it's now knackered.

The Sunderland, I was lucky enough to see it fly over here but bought by Kermit Weekes and now sitting on a slipway terminably damaged by a hurricane.

The Lancaster story is interesting, former Strathallan KB976, it was bought by property magnate Charles Church in flying condition and destroyed by a hangar collapse at Woodford in 1987 while being renovated. Church died in a Spitfire crash and the Lancaster parts were distributed all over the country, I recall walking through the wrecked fuselage at North Weald. Weekes bought the wreck, plus other parts from KB994, and an Avro Lincoln, stuffed them into containers took them over to the States, and there they remain, rotting away. It isn't a complete Lancaster, it's a pile of hybrid scrap, no doubt sitting in containers for nearly 20 years has made it even more less likely to be renovated.

I wouldn't be surprised if Weekes tried to make the Panton Brothers an offer they can't refuse, unlikely they'd accept it, but no doubt he's biding his time.

Don't be fooled by him.

[Beefsteak 305]

He speaks very highly of you Pete !!

Seriously, I don't think he's letting things got to rot , everybody I've spoke to says he does a sterling job , using all his spare time and resources trying to get things going again, it's kind of hard getting parts for a 50 odd year old Sunderland just like that, most have to be hand made from scratch (Including building the jigs neccessary for them)

Oh and don't worry about 'Just Jayne' there's absolutely no chance of her going anywhere, the Panton brothers (Love em or hate em) bought her as a memorial to their brother, killed in the war, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't close down their "Nice little earner" by selling "JJ" and closing their museum!!

[firbeck 859]

Welcome to Happy Valley, a self destructive Mosquito, a once working Sunderland that was moored off Rochester and a Disney view of aircraft preservation.

http://museum.eaa.org/

I note that the Lanc and Sunderland are omitted from the list of personal toys, perhaps he's too embarresed to mention them.

Sorry, but I think that this man has been held in such high esteem for so long, I can't see the point of chucking your wealth about in such quantities for the sake of it, you can only take on so much.

Watch out for Ian Blair, he's already removed the FW 190 to Germany because he couldn't be arsed to fight for it's CAA certification.

[Beefsteak 305]

I think you've put the wrong link in there!!

[Limey 242]

Well, I have shaken his hand, and with all due respect Pete, you are wrong!

And the Merlins were destined for the scrap heap - which is where they would be had he not caught them! And yes, he will sell you one - but he prefers to trade for parts etc. that he needs.

When I was there, the Sunderland was inside the hanger - and it is listed as in flying condition! He also did his best to save two of the few remaining Constellations, but didn't have space for them - he offered to give them away to somebody that could, at least, protect them!

I suggest you go and meet him, rather than tar and feather someone who is doing his best to preserve history. As for it being a "Disney" view, again, I suggest you go! All the airplanes that he restores now fly. Can you say that for the RAF museum?

http://www.fantasyofflight.com/

[firbeck 859]

Throw hands up in air and apologise, clearly he's a man of great integrity, allowing an erstwhile airworthy Mosquito to rot away was obviously a mistake, I look forward to seeing the pile of bits once called a Lancaster take to the air soon.

Handshaking doesn't put the world to rights.

[Limey 242]

As to letting the Mosquito rot - I think you need to review your sources:

From Kermit Weeks' blog:

"Fortunately, the Mosquito was at the EAA Museum in Oshkosh when Hurricane Andrew hit the Weeks Air Museum in Miami. It has a good home there for the time being so try and make it to the Oskhosh Fly-In this summer and check it out. When it’s time to get her flying again, we will take it apart, bring it home, go through it. The wood is still in great condition but all the systems and engines would need to be gone through by now. The fabric covering all needs to be replaced as well."

Like I said, instead of complaining, why not go and meet the man. You are wrong about the Sunderland - which would now be sitting on the bottom of the Solent if he hadn't purchased it. You are wrong about the Mosquito, in fact it is NOT delaminated - it needs re-covering - which hasn't been done since it was new! And ANY aircraft that is not flown on a regular basis will need refurbishing from time-to-time. By the way - it was FLOWN to Oshkosh! How many of the aircraft at the RAF museum are really airworthy?

You seem very bitter about a man you have never met, and who devotes his life to restoring historic aircraft. What has he ever done to you?

[Beefsteak 305]

Give Duxford (And the privateers based there ) there dues , they are getting a lot of stuff airborne now , including a Dornier and Beaufighter, neither of which have seen the skies since 1950!!

[Limey 242]

Beefy - interesting that a LOT of the Spits and P51s flying over here came by way of "Old Flying Machines" and other rebuild shops in the U.K. - I have a book entitled "Gate Guardians" that tracks a number of the Spits that were on posts outside RAF bases after the war - lots of them are now flying here in the States! So do we blame the RAF for leaving them "to rot away" on poles in the English weather?

[Beefsteak 305]

We blame the MOD for not realising that there are a few of us out here who passionately care about old airframes and never saved a few of each in flying condition for trainee mechanics to practice on . All we have are a load of Jaguars at RAF Cranwell which could be put in to the air!!! I know it's a finance thing , ,,,,,,,,war in the middle east >>> save some nice planes MMMMMMMMMMM????????? >>>War wins every time !!!!!