firbeck
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Posts posted by firbeck
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Plantfit
Nottingham City Transport did indeed operate lowbridge double deckers, numbers 199 to 208, AEC Regent III Park Royal Lowbridge delivered 1954 and at least 199 was still going in 1965 until I gather it was sold on to Bartons, I can't find my NCT book though that might have a photo of it.
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I thought a great film and loved the music
Did it make you feel 'Comfortably Numb' too.
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A low bridge double deck trolleybus would have been an interesting sight, poles coming off everywhere I reckon!
I'm sure that Nottingham City Transport had a few AEC double deckers with a side gangway and long seats down one side, were they obtained for this route. Bartons certainly had them, we always used to get one when we went swimming from Firbeck school to Radford Baths, considering that there wasn't a single overbridge on the route, it always seemed a bit pointless.
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Thats an interesting point, I wonder therefore whether the proposed tram route will cross that road on the flat and they'll flatten all the embankments, or whether they intend to put in a higher bridge.
Incidentally Beefsteak, I read an interesting article in this months Railway Magazine. Remember when you went to see 'Duchess of Sutherland, come through Winsford station in October. Well an unadvertised positioning run involving Southern King Arthur Class 'Sir Lamiel' was running down from Carnforth to Southall and passed the Duchess south of Preston just after 10 that morning, there's a nice picture of them passing taken from the cab of Sir Lamiel, two steam locos passing on the WCML is a bit of a dream, I don't know how long it takes to get from Preston to Winsford, but it must have come through about an hour after you saw the Duchess, shame that Network Rail don't advertise these things to the public on stations, I'm sure that many people would have liked the opportunity to see steam engines come by, they are part of our heritage after all and two in a day on a main line is a real sight to appreciate.
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Sorry, but the Punk 'Revolution' did nothing for me, there were some really good bands like the Clash and the Stranglers that had the misfortune to get tarred with the same brush, but I was glad when it was all over, a bit of teenage angst that I was too old for.
Your mention of the Rezillos made me smile. At the time, my then missus applied and got a job at an advertising agency in Essex, the previous bloke had quite the job to become drummer of the Rezillos, or after he joined, they became the Revillos.
He used to call in and invited us to one of their concerts at Colchester. It was very intimidating I have to say. We walked to the front of the qeue of dustbin bags, cockerels and pretend weekend piercers, and told the suspicious bloke on the door that we were friends of the band, fortunatley, matey was waiting and let us in. It was a very strange do, much jumping up and down and gobbing on each other, the band were not to good either, it was all a big thrash, not one of my favourite concert experiences, but at least everyone genuinely had fun and got off on it, good for them, more originality than McFly any day.
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I think that the bracing probably is important, why it was needed though is another matter, it's obviously to stop the support spans spreading outwards. I wouldn't be surprised if the structural engineers made a mistake with the original design and chucked them on afterwards.
Not difficult to get round though, higher goal post style bracing with a 45 degree fillet would sort that.
It would have been interesting what they would have done if they had extended the electrification south from Sheffield, there's no way that overhead catenary would have fitted under that bridge in its original state.
When you have a City with a large river flowing through it, all bridges are important, don't forget that there are only two major road crossings between Clifton and Gunthorpe, and of course it was wide enough, one lane each side.
When it was demolished in 1985, I'd be interested to know whether any preliminary thoughts on the tramway system were implanted in the Local Authorities minds, as was said earlier, why the viaduct was demolished from Weekday Cross is very odd, and now it looks as if they will have to spend huge sums of money crossing over Midland Station, but Civil Servants always know best don't they.
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Does anyone know the politics as to why this bridge was demolished, when was it, the 80's?
Surely the Lady Bay Bridge had been converted to road traffic by then, and was probably an older structure, I can't believe that it was so corroded that it had become dangerous.
You should see the state of the old girder railway bridge over the river at Great Yarmouth, it's appalling and a hazard to navigation to at high tide, but it's still there, unloved, but there must be a reason for it.
Perhaps the powers that be were concerned that the existance of the Wilford bridge might encourage thoughts of bringing back the GCR into the city, pity, it would have made a great tram route, linking up Midland Station to the GCR North at Ruddington.
I've just looked at the map of the proposed new Clifton tram route, does this mean that they will have to build a new bridge on the same spot, ridiculous, how much will that cost.
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Notts Lad
Google, UK, Vulcan crash Syerston, and it's the first site, entitled Mishaps Big Birds, there's just the one picture, but there are other references.
It's interesting that despite the large number of airshows every year, no member of the viewing public in the UK has been killed as the result of an accident since the Sea Vixen prototype broke up at Farnborough in the early 50's. One of our neighbours from Plantation Road was there that day, he would never talk about it, all I know is that one of the engines went over his head and into the crowd.
In the old days you did get some seriously worrying acts of 'Derring Do' at airshows, I'm not suggesting that anything untoward was performed with this Vulcan, but it was an early model and a constantly used test bed, it seemed to be flying out of Hucknall just about everyday when I was a kid, so it had probably been highly stressed above and beyond the call of duty prior to the accident.
I recall being at a show at Cottesmore when I was young and the weather was appalling. This didn't stop the famous Black Arrows 111 Squadron flying Hunters, carrying out their formation routine at low level over the crowd during an intense thunderstorm, I remember cowering behind the hangar doors, the passage of time may have altered my perception of the events, but I do recall my old man being more than a little concerned.
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Thursday 27th...BBC 4:
20:30–21:00 Beeching's Tracks
West
2/6. Simon Calder takes a journey along the West Country's forgotten railway lines.
Rob
Something that got overlooked yesterday, did you see the programme and what did you think.
I know little about the Portishead branch, but looking at Bristols obviously overcrowded road network, it seemed to make sense to reinstate the missing 3 miles of track, most of which seemed to be in place. What seemed to be glossed over however was the fact that it looked as if level crossings had to be brought back into use, if the North Norfolk Railways experience at Sheringham is anything to go by, it costs a fortune to do this, they've had to compromise by planning to put back a tramway style crossing with limited use.
As far as the Minehead branch is concerned, I can see Network Rails reticence in running heritage trains or whatever along the couple of miles of track into Taunton station, it's a busy high speed line and pathing problems would make it difficult.
What it didn't mention was that the relief line from the Norton Fitzwarren junction into Taunton Station was pulled up several years ago, it would have made an ideal route into Taunton, which still has the disused bay platform available, the trackbed is all there, I don't think that anyone has the will to do it, why should they, WSR is a very succesful tourist line, they've just put a lot of money into building a turntable at Minehead and are currently putting in a turning triangle at Norton Fitzwarren, why should they have to chip in to provide the infrastucture for the odd morning and evening commuter train. If they want to run holiday trains to Minehead Butlins, fine, they've had the capability to do this for years. Like the previous programme, they don't seem to tell the whole story.
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Nice one Plantfit, those particular vehicles kept turning up at our local Tesco's, well we're not far from Colchester and they were being delivered I reckon, they turned up most mornings in groups of four, covered in odd desert camo. The troops, from various regiments, went in for their breakfasts every morning, yet keeping an alert presence around the vehicles, and themselves, communication was definatley discouraged, looking at their badges they were Paras, RA and what I took to be the SAS, brave boys, they deserve our support in these dreadful times, it makes you want to weep in view of whats happening in India, but yet our local paper is concerned that our assasins have to face east and shove their arses in the air in a local car park, my heart bleeds for them.
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Firbeck, I take your point but it does overlook the explosion of motorised road transport in the interwar period which was entirely oil fueled.
There is more on the UK railway industry's post 1890 backwardness here
Really interesting reading Bamber, it's interesting to think that Sentinel were still producing steam vehicles when such dinosaurs should have been consigned to the museums, but yet, I remeber such vehicles being gainfully employed in the late 50's.
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Thanks for your info, I wonder if the Nimrod is an ordinary example or a special R1.
Waddoe seems to be the centre of things for intelligence gathering aircraft, I worry about how our armed forces are coping with things at the moment, on all branches, not just the RAF.
It was interesting to see Beefsteaks photo of the patrolling vehicle, aren't these the specialist armoured vehicles that our troops abroad are crying out for, why isn't it out in Afghanistan instead of roaming around Lincs, or perhaps Beefsteak took his air rifle with him, you must have looked a very dangerous lot.
I used to go up to our local base at Wethersfield when the Yanks ruled the local economy, they encouraged the local population to attend antique fairs and whatever, held on the base. They had a simple way of dealing with it, you arrived at the entrance, got out the car, the guards had M16's and pistols which were made very prominent, but in a subtle, unthreatening way and your car and identity were checked out on what was obviously a more sophisticated data base than the UK had at the time, all this done jokingly and with such politeness, but you knew they meant business. I miss em', they were such lovely people who did a lot of charity work in the area, some folk hated their political stance and whatever, but we forged real friendships with our US allies, we were very saddened when they left the area, lovely blokes, sorely missed.
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Hmmmm
Thank you for your kind thoughts, especially towards my favourite brewery.
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Thats the programme I was listening to the other night, good isn't it.
They still managed to find a few out-takes that I hadn't heard before, I've got all my original vinyls, CD's, DVD's, everything going, but things turn up.
I have to say that any Beatles officianado must buy 'Revolution in the Head' by Ian Macdonald, it's an incredible book, a bit too so called intellectually analytical sometimes, but nevertheless, a fascinating insight.
The thing about the Beatles was they began their career when I started at Grammar School and it finished when I left, in other words they were at the cutting edge during my influential teenage years. God help anyone these days, that level of creativity is hard to find anymore, I happened to be alive at the right time, I was lucky.
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Well you lot seem to have had a jolly jaunt, good weather for it too, it would have been a disaster today.
There's one thing that really concerns me though, The Blue Bell being taken over by Greene King, if they find out he's selling Bomber County Bitter they'll be on top of the landlord like a ton of bricks.
Did you see any AWACS or have they been all deployed elsewhere.
The Typhoon has to be my favourite fighter of all time, there doesn't seem to be an end to its capabilities. The Lightning was spectacular in a straight line or going vertical, I believe that only the F-15 can match it for it's climb rate. The Phantom was pretty heart stopping when it attempted low level displays, particularly it's for it's lack of tight turning, it would wobble precariously when such a move was demonstrated. The Tornado F-3 was a cheapo option developed from a low level strike bomber, I always thought it's combat capabilities were probably limited, the Yanks knew that when it was restricted to AWACS defence during the first Gulf War.
Interesting to see an AEW Sea King, it must have been from either Culdrose or Yeovilton, probably all the airborne radar protection we have if the AWACS are away.
With regard to the closed railways, we took a trip on them in the 60's, unfortunately our DMU that we boarded at Firsby Junction caught fire at Woodhall Spa. No messing about in those days, after telling the station master that we had to catch the Harwich Boat Train from Lincoln to Sheffield, the fire was duly put out with the hose from the station masters garden and we limped on to Lincoln on one engine.
Sorry, I couldn't resist it, our favourite BBMF Lanc at it's first public outing, BoB day, Waddington 1965, note the lack of dorsal and front turrets.
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Looking at those pics made my heart flutter, I'm glad I wasn't there, I've seen a couple of fatal crashes at airshows later on in life and believe me it wasn't pleasant, especially the RNHF Firefly when I was one of the first on the scene, I don't want to think about it.
About 20 odd years ago, XH558 used to take part in the Fighter Meet displays at North Weald, until the local residents got it banned.
We used to skive off work and watch the participants arrive on a Friday lunchtime. In those days you could get right up to the runway threshold, armed with a full camera full of film, we watched the Vulcan come in and he misjudged it and hit the rough ground in front of the runway, sitting a few feet from a bouncing Vulcan was no joke, but he controlled it and deployed the brake chute, that was the last landing they ever made there. As for my film, the perforations ripped and it didn't feed through, cameras have a habit of letting you down at the wrong moment don't they.
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It was Battle of Britain Day, September 1958, we had gone to Cottesmore instead that year and fortunately missed the crash.
If you can face looking at it, there is an infamous picture of the Vulcan breaking up on:-
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread/186611/pg1, it's just how you described it.
For a look at happier times, taken at Cottesmore, BoB day, 19/9/59, the year after, Vulcan, Valiant, Victor, the big three.
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Bamber
It's true that the USA produced these wonderful diesel technological advances, but on the other hand, they had vast oil reserves while we had a few nodding donkeys at Eakring. Our industry at the time could't compare, it was based on coal and trying to drag itself out of the 1920's recession and the 19th century. We were also thrown into 1930's European political intrigue, the Spanish Civil War, the possibilities of inevitable war with Germany. We had to play it safe and deal with what we had. Don't knock Mallards achievements, they were remarkable, there was nothing wrong with steam power at the time, we had got the technology off to a tee, why change what we had proved to be a winner, we had coal mines not oil wells, what were we supposed to do.
In the 60's the American railway system was still relying on these pre war gems, but we left them far behind, what price the Burlington Zephyr when we had HST and such advanced technology that they hadn't kept up with, yes, I know that in the case of the tilting train, we had problems, but politics decided the outcome, the powers that be weren't prepared to put money into solving the problem.
Did you know that Amtrak wanted to buy HST to run between Los Angeles and San Fransisco because their technology died and couldn't cope with what the Europeans were producing. Sad isn't it, we now buy our locos from Canada, Spain, Germany, and the new Javelins from Japan, thank you Mrs Thatcher for starting the rot in our home industries, politics shouldn't be brought into this, but she has a lot to answer for.
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Blimey Ashley, what a fascinating load of figures, where did you get them from, what makes it intriguing is that they were put together in the middle of the War, I reckon that they must have been way understaffed, it would be interesting to know, compared to peace time, how many female staff were employed and how different things were in say 1938 or 1946.
Things were very fluid then, we were about to get an influx of steam engines from the USA, the system was being subject to attack from the Luftwaffe, I think we got off very lightly, an A4, Sir Ralph Wedgewood was destroyed in an air attack on York Sheds and no doubt lesser high profile locos were also destroyed, but compared to what we were dishing out on the occupied continent, I think we got away with it.
No mention of electric stock, the Southern was well preoccupied with this at the time, but there were other electric systems in Liverpool, and I don't mean the overhead railway, and systems up in the North East. The Woodhead route electrification was planned and the first loco 26000 possibly built by then.
The railways around London Road were bombed, but I suspect that they were brought back into line very quickly, over to those with more knowledge.
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I'm bringing this one up as things were mentioned in the Railways thread and I'm interested to know whether anyone knows what happened to some of the individuals concerned.
When we were youths in the mid 60's we tended not to lurk on street corners drinking illicitly obtained White Lightning, we were always off hiking, walking, cycling and generally observing our dissapearing heritage.
One sunday in 1965 we arranged a hike from Wollaton, up through Ruddington, investigated the abandoned graveyard near Tollerton and found ourselves at the trolleybus museum at Plumptree, whether it was by accident or design, I can't recall, but probably we knew about the place.
This is a picture taken that day, if you look carefully you can see Melvyn (Fanny) Hill, Tim Allen, and Derrick Kent going mental in the cab of a Derby Trolleybus.
There were members about doing a bit of restoration work and we were invited to join. Well Fanny and I did on the spot. We then had to attend a meeting with the Chairman, Ted Farnsworth, round at his house, a really lovely bloke. Now, with respect, most of the members were pretty dour keen types as you might expect, but Fanny and I were very much into normal teenage things as well, such as the Rolling Stones, fashion and girls, well, it was the 60's, a brilliant time to be a teenager and be alive, we took advantage of it, Ok we could talk the backside off an elephant about what the Beatles were up to but we knew how to drive an 8F as well, we'd done it, we'd worked the signal box at Ilkeston Station, but we'd strutted down Kings Road, Chelsea as well, Fanny's brother lived off Sloane Square and we'd kipped on his settee. Trains, trolleybuses, Mary Quant and Carnaby Street, what a combination. I think that this endeared us to Ted, I know we may have rubbed some of the more traditional members up the wrong way, as was to prove, but we had a laugh all the same.
Anyway, we got very much involved in the group, I can't remember the names of most of them. The secretary was Brian Dominique, we had a meeting every week round at his house in West Bridgeford, he lived a few doors away from Peter Grummit. I recall another kid called Parks, similar age to us but he lived on another planet as far as we were concerned, he actually owned a Manchester Trolleybus that his father had paid £200 pounds for, it was kept on site at Plumptree.
The group owned several Nottingham trolleybuses, one from Derby, one from Manchester and one from Ashton under Lyme
The biggest mistake was aquiring a so called steam bus. In a moment of madness, this thing, a Skegness Toastrack Bedford with a bloody great steam roller boiler shoved in the middle of it, was delivered to Tollerton garage.
We got a local farmer to pretend to tow it to the site with a landrover, while Brian steered and I operated the gears and shoved in the coal.
It was taken off to Rempstone Traction Engine Rally by low loader, I had to crawl into the firebox to get it going, it was a nightmare, but attracted a lot of attention.
Parks is the one in the tank top with his back to us, I think it's Brian next to him, no doubt worrying about my gear settings and two other members are hanging on either side at the back, it looks as if they were about to attempt to reverse it without running over anyone.
Eventually it succombed in the main ring and we had to be towed out by a proper steam tractor.
I wonder what happened to this beast.
We had a lovely 1936 Barton double decker, non of the companies who's adverts appeared all over it were prepared to sponsor it, they ended up with free adverts, mean gits.
We took it rallying to North Hykeham once and left someone behind having a pee alongside the Fosse Way near Newark, I noticed this near Bingham and we turned back and wound this thing up to 65 mph, only to find a police car coming the other way with the victim inside, it was like a scene out of 'On the Buses', hilarious.
We also aquired a genuine Notts and Derby Trolleybus from Bradford, they had been aquired by Bradford Corp and operated to the end, theres one on the left of this shot but not the one purchased, that was stored in an old shed.
I got into big trouble on the day of that trip, while they were running about taking bus and train numbers, I was saving things for posterity, the brass gauge glasses that found their way onto the bus from a MR tank on the scrapline at Canklow was nearly the end for me, I still have them, beautifully restored, rather than be melted down.
The day of the last Nottingham Trolleybus was quite an event and I can't find my pictures of it, some in colour.
We hired a trolley to follow the last 36, so we were the last but one EVER, we had special tickets printed and sang Auld Lang Syne in Parliament Street Depot at midnight, the conducter and driver were in tears, I have their autographs on my ticket, when I can find it.
The very last trolley the next day was a very complicated story, but there is so much to say about a lot of things and lots of tales, but I'll leave it for now.
So who's out there who were also involved.
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Thanks mate, the candle lit meal certainly cheered me up, she replicated Gordon Ramsays 70's cookalong, it was a right laugh, especially when I nearly flambeyed the kitchen and my eyebrows. Lot's of loud music from the past too and out came the guitars as well, it's a good job old Dot next door is a bit deaf.
Anyway, I'm going to start a Trolleybus Group thread now, and no, Ted Farnsworth didn't drive the last trolleybus, problem is, my trolleybus memorabilia seem to be elsewhere, I can't find the tickets, articles, photos and, sharp intake of breath, the starting handle off the last trolleybus, it must be all somewhere, probably in another box, so you'll have to make do with what I've managed to find until the weekend.
Over to the new thread.
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Come on, be fair...I've already responded to your K1 and A4 pics above, in detail.
Do you agree with my A4 identity assessment.
Cheers
Robt P.
Sorry mate, it's my birthday today and it's sparked off many reminisances and stories inside my head, it's never bothered me before, but for some reason it has today, why, I don't know. I'm very far removed from friends and family, it hasn't helped by piling through my picture box, on the other hand its kicked me into gear to phone up an old pal in Underwood who shares the same birthdate, we've just been having a somewhat nervous laugh together. My mother has gone off for some eye treatment today, I've been worried about this as well, I'm sure she'll be Ok, a day I will be quite thankfull to see the end of, it kicked me in the guts as soon as I woke up, my lovely dog having epiletic fits last night and at this moment doesn't help.
I have to remove my drawings from the dining room table now, I'm apparently in for a feast tonight.
Good old Liz.
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Fair enough, but I know I can be a bit of a gob sometimes, but this is supposed to be a railway thread, what do you think of my last pics, I hate publishing and getting no feed back, I'm not looking for praise, just a few related comments.
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If I promise to be good can I come along next year, please, sounds great to me, did you get to talk to the Panton Brothers.
Long Gone Railways
in Pete's Nottingham Transport Forum
Posted
Sorry, interrupted by the phone, apparantly Corgi produced a model of SAU 199 in Barton colours which makes me think that they used the same die to produce the NCT double decker, which I have somewhere, I can find me trolleybus, Skills Coach and various other buses but not that one. If anyone collects Corgi buses perhaps they have the AEC lowbridge, which I'm sure is in the later colour scheme probably due to the fact that a colour slide exists of it taken at Broad Marsh in 1965 operating the number 2 service, wherever that went.
During my search for a picture of this bus, I found out that two Nottingham and two Notts and Derby trolleybuses are stored at Boughton near Ollerton, presumably by former members of the NTG, does anyone know anything about them and where they are exactly, there's an old army store nearby I wouldn't be surprised if they are kept there, but in what condition.
Shall we get back to trains now.