Arthur-Robin
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Posts posted by Arthur-Robin
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I'm going to put a new tentative theory that Robin Hood's grave is really under or near/by Major Oak in Edwinstowe in "the heart of Sherwood".Robin Hoods grave is in some sources connected with a tree?
Major Oak is ca 800 yrs old and "would have been a sapling at the time of Robin Hood" or is supposed to have been "a full grown tree" then, and it might have been planted then or RH buried near/by/under it? A photograph of the "most famously of all" tree gives the impression to my imagination that the tree and site/place may well be RH's burial site. (Sherwood trees inscriptions might have connection with RH and/or Little John? Instead of being outlaws "hideout", Major Oak may rather hiding place of RH's grave? "RH is supposed to have hidden in it". Compare similar tradition of RH grave underneath a wardrobe in an inn? Perhaps the slain deer that RH hid in the other tree RH's Larder is the burial place of Guy of Gisbourne?)
Prioress of Kirklees is similar to the parson of Schirlond in Roger Godberd records? (The parson of Schirlond might also be whence the C(h)lorinda name of Maid Marian?) Schirlond is similar to Kirklond/Birkland(s) in the Edwinstowe/Sherwood area. Kirklees or ChurchLees is alternatively Bircklies which is also similar to Kirklond/Birkland(s) or Dukeries. Perhaps compare Kirton Schidrintune? Scarletecros 1280?
Kirklees in Yorks is too far from Sherwood (and even Barnsdale), while Major Oak is right in the heart of Sherwood and close to Nottingham.
Red Roger of (de) Donkesly/Doncaster might be Reg(inald) de Grei/Grey justice of Chester (royalist in barons revolt, sheriff of Nottingham, connected with Godberd throughout their timelines, Benison said cryptically "it was he who caused RG's downfall"). The name "(Sir/Red) Roger of Donkesley/Doncaster" could easily be corruption of names/words Sheriff grey Roy Reg Reginald Roger(Godberd) de deGrei Chester? Alot of RH *ballads* names seem to have similar corruptions of Godberd records names.
The prioress of Kirklees "Elizabeth de Stainton" might be linked with Margaret or Diva de Swaninton/Swaneton in Roger Godberd records? (Robin Hoods grave inscription similarily corrupt?)
St Mary's Edwinstowe might have connection with RH's chapel of Mary Magdalene (though Skelbrooke may be more likely), or with the "prioress of Kirklees"?See Godberd records for more info on details:
http://home.att.net/~sylveastan/mayday/indextimeline.htm
https://www.preceden.com/timelines/66430-robin-hood
http://www.robinhoodlegend.com/records-of-godberd/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nottingham/content/articles/2008/04/30/real_robin_hood_feature.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Godberd
( http://www.robinhoodlegend.com/robert-hod-cambridge/ .)And my Robin Hood & Godberd correspondences table at http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20717 .
(If i am wrong about the grave site then i also have a couple/few other candidates.)
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11 hours ago, MargieH said:
Who are you going to research next, Arthur- Robin?
Maybe something biblical since i feel a bit worried about not seeking that as much as other things. I have already researched so many things ("(King) Arthur's" 12 battles battle-sites, Robin Hood, Joseph in Egypt, Moses in Egypt, Judge Crater, Jack the Ripper, Atlantis, water fluoridation, Nazareth, Popes & Emperors lists matches, 7 church ages and martyr Antipas of Revelation, etc). Have seeked and (seemingly) discovered so many things but one thing i didn't discover was life most abundant. (I also haven't yet found out about my real grandfather the ww2 Italian pow in Notts in 1946.) I also have other life things i need and want to do. Where i am at now (after so many lost years) is only hope now for future is that God/Yhwh/Yeshua will give me life and let me continue studies.
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Thanks heaps folks.
There is no doubt now that it is right, it is just the difficulty of having to explain it all in detail in way everyone else can easily see since we all have different ways of seeing things.
We have found so quality and quantity matches now between heaps of Robin Hood names/persons (and natures) and Roger Godberd names/persons (and natures) that it is certain.
Just to try break a few explanations down:
name Robyn Hood / Robard Hude = Roger Godberd.
The 'Gest' says "Gode Robyn" = Roger Godberd.
(Robin Goodfellow confirms? Roger Robelard confirms.)
Robin Hood was loyal to king etc = Roger Godberd "says that he has always thereafter conducted himself well
and faithfully towards the said king and his heirs and everybody else"."Robin Hood earl of Huntingdon" = poetic corruption of Roger God-berd of Swanington.
Robin once used psuedonym Simon over the Lee the Noble Fisherman = Roger Godberd was of Swanington in Lei-cester (and also served under Simon de Montfort earl of Lei-cester).
Little John was not "little", was great fighter, etc = John Deyville was a cunning man and strong fighter.
Little John of Hathersage = John de Haversham.
Robin Hood & Ranulf Earl of Chester in Piers Plowman = Roger Godberd and Ranulf justice of Chester.
Friar Tuck ("chaplain", "lusty, bawdy") = Richard [Dick] de Gaham parson of Schrilond
Gilbert White hand = Herbert de St Quintin.
King Edward = Lord/Prince/King Edward 1.
Sir Richard at Lee = Sir Richard Foliot.
Sir Guy of (good) Gisbourne slain by Robin Hood = Warin de Bassingburne 'who had died" ( W / Gu interchange in different spellings of name).
William aTrent slain in ballad on Guy of Gisbourne = William (le) Wasteneys "who has died"
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As usual the problem is i have difficulty writing my discoveries in a form that anyone else (academia, public, etc) can read/understand and see the matches.
So we have put the matches between Robin Hood and Roger Godberd (& John Deyville) in table form here:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20717&PID=717999#717999
Anything i need to explain please post questions and i will hope to try answer if i am able re time, etc.
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Thanks for the helpful local info & ideas.
Just a couple of last extra candidates for matches between Robin Hood characters and Roger Godberd characters:
David of Doncaster ~ Walter Devyas/Deuyas/Deyvas/de Ewyas/de Euyas? or J/R/N/J Deyville? or Diva?
(Robin Hood) earl of huntingdon ~ Roger God-berd of Swaneton/Swaninton/Swanington? Anketil of Swanington? or Gerewedon/Garendon?
George a Green the Pinder of Wakefield ~ Geoffrey Godberd?
or Roger de Remes?So the ballads and the writers were right not wrong!
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One final extra possible match:Curtal Friar/F(f)rere Tuck(e)/Tuk(e) "of Fountains Dale/Abbey" ("chaplain", "lusty/bawdy", "wore an artificial phallus", "RH offers him a lady free", "Abbot of Misrule", fool)
~ Dick Partington/Patrington
~ Richard de Gaham, parson of Schirlond (of Roger Godberd's band)?
[~ Parson of Chaucer's CTs?]Also another possible link between RH and St Peter: does Godberd mean good beard, like the popish "St Peter" [and like Nero, and Papa Smurf] had a bushy white beard? I hope that this is not another case of "Babylon moher of all harlots"? Though RH was not a fan of the bishops in the Gest.
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Major correction update. We were wrong about Robin Hood being Robert Deyville, and wrong about Will Scarlet and Much.
It turns out that Robin Hood is actually Roger Godberd after all; and Will Scarlet and Much are in list of Godberds associates. (Though we are not sure which of the few candidates Will Scarlet is, and we aren't sure of about anyone who Much might match.) Little John still may only best match John Deyville though, though there are 2 other leeser possible candidates in list of Godberds associates.Candidate matches between Robin Hood characters etc & Roger Godberd characters etc.
Alan A Dale
~ Anketil de Swaninton? [or Alanus Dale (Giffard 1266-79)?]
Dick Partington/Patrington
~ Richard de Gaham, parson of Schirlond?
Gandelyn/Gamelyn [Gam(e)well]
~ (Godberd came at) Gerewedon/Garendon? William fuiz le Chapeleyn?Gilbert Whitehand
~ Herbert de St Quintin? or else Walter de Ewyas/Devyas/Deuyas/Deyvas/de Euyas? or (Roger) Godbert? [&/or St Giles?]John Little/LeTall/Naylor (always count money, like brother to RH, "Scot", knows Barnsdale/Sherwood)
~ Et Sire Jo(h)n Deyville/D'Eyvile/deEyvill/deDaiville ("a man clever/cunning/canny (or hard or hot) & a warrior strong/doughty") (keeper of forest) 1260s? or son John Deyville of Adlingfleet (served at Falkirk 1298)? or else John de Haversham? or John, son of John?
King & Prince (Bower) / King Edward (Gest)
~ Lord Edward, later king Edward 1 1265/1272/1290/1298?Much/Midge (Michael/Mitch/Mickey/Mike) "the Miller's son" (sometimes replaces Will Scarlet as 3rd)
~ William de Mungumry? [&/or quindene/feast/day of St Michael / Michaelmas?] [or Nicholas de la Hus’?]
Robin Hood / Robard Hude / Robin Goodfellow / gode Robyn / Robyn(e) Hode / Robin_A-liue / Robin of Loxley ("earl of Huntingdon")
~ Roger (de) Godberd ("says that he has always thereafter conducted himself well and faithfully towards the said king and his heirs and everybody else", lands in Leic(ester(shire))/Leyc) [compare Roger Robelard]? [and possibly Robert_le_Lou (lands in Northants)? and possibly Robert Deyville (family home at Hode/Hood 1264)?]
Ranulf earl of Chester
~ Reginald de Grey (justice of Chester, Sheriff Nott)? and Godberd imprisoned at Chester? [and possibly steward of Earl of Chester?]Reynold (Greenleaf)
~ Reginald de Grey? [and/or Reginald le Porter (Giffard)?] [Gerewedon/Garendon?]Sir Richard at Lee (as if 2 diff kts, changed livery 2nd visit)
~ Sir Richard Foliot (changed sides) 1263/4/1271/2? and/or Richard de la Vache/Wache? [and/or Sir John Deyville?]Sheriff of Nott
~ Reginald de Grey? William de Grey in conflict with outlaws 1266? John de Balliol Sh of Nott?Sir(e) Guy(e) of (Good) Gisb(o)urn(e) (capull-hyde) :
~ Warin de Bassingburne "who had died"? [+ "indicted/aquited for death of William fuiz le Chapeleyn?] [& eve St Giles 1264?]Sir/Red Roger of Donkesly/Donkestere/Doncaster [possible insider]
~ Roger de Leukenore/Leukmore? [or (Sir) Roger de Doncaster/Denecastre/Donecastre (1266-79) (Giffard)? or Roger de Doncaster (Nott, 1267-70)?]St Austin
~ Augustinians 1256? [or Newstead/NovoLoco of St Augustine c1170 (H2)?]St Charity
~ St Calixtus 1266?St/Virgin Mary ("our dear lady")
~ "on Saturday next after the feast of the Nativity of the Blessed Mary" 1266? [&/or Margaret?]St Quentin
~ Herbert de St. Quintin?St Richard of Cirencester
~ St Richard of Cirencester 1262? Richard de Gaham, parson of Schirlond?Simon over the Lee the Noble Fisher man (Robin Hood pseudonym)
~ Godberd served under Simon de Montfort Earl of Leicester?
Will(iam) Scarlock/Scarlet/Gam(e)well) (earl of Maxfield)
~ William brother of Roger Godberd? or Parson of Schirlond? or William de Maysam? or (Walter Ewyas) indicted for murder of William fuiz le Chapeleyn? [or William le Wasteneys "who has died"?]Will Stutley
~ Robert de Estutevill/Stutevill/Stute-vil(l)e/estotevile/estutevil(l)e/stotvile?William Goldsborough
~ William (brother of Roger) Godbert?William aTrent
~ William (le) Wasteneys "who has died" (Godberd)?Merry Men / 7 score men
~ Godberd could call on a 100 men? Wrongdoers? [mainpernors?] William de Grey in conflict with outlaws 1266? K Edw recruited men of Sherwood?
RH d dec 1247/1274
~ Godberd died 1276 / dead 1293? John Deyville died c 1291-5? [or Sheriff Walter de Stirclerle/Stirkelegh 1274?]
RH & LJ pardoned
~ "Godberd pardoned in 1266 / by K Edw 1"? or John Deyville member of K's household 1285?
For "God"/Yah, Christ/Yeshua, and Robin Hood/Roger Godberd,
Wishing all genuine people a New Year.
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We have made some more discoveries for Deyvilles scenario from this page on Godberd http://www.robinhoodlegend.com/records-of-godberd/ . See updated "table"/lists at theblueboarinnrobinhooddiscussions.yuku.com/topic/1114/interesting-questions-andor-tidbits?page=2 . (I have since been able to post there again there since that day i wasblocked from posting.)I think we have found Sir Guy of Gisbourne.
It looks like sir Guy of (Good) Gisburn is more likely to be Warin de Bassingburne "who had died", rather than Walter (de_)Ewyas/Devyas/Deuyas/Deyvas/Euyas (who William of Newborough's chronicle claims was hanged in 1272) and/or/of Roger Godberd/Godbert/Gootberd/Gootbert/Godeberd' (at Gerewedon/Garendon). Interestingly Walter Ewyas was indicted (and aquited) for death of William fuiz le Chapeleyn, which might link with the horse skin that Guy wore. (Other considered connections include eve of St Giles 1264?)
(* Capull-hyde = horse skin clad. http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/eng/child/ch118.htm ) -
Wow thanks for that David. I was finding it difficult to find anymuch good web/net info because of the problem of spellings of the surname. Its always more difficult searching when variations of spellings of (combinations of) names (eg Gisbourne, Gisburne, Guy, Guye).Variations of spellings i have collected so far: Deyville, D'eyvill, De_Eyvill(e), D'Eyvile, d'Ayvil(l), de_Daiville, Davill, Deiville, Dayville, Deyville, Daiville, De_Ville.
Yes that John D'eyvill of Hood & "Robin of Chesterfield" are the same persons as our John Deyville & Robert Deyville.
There is some more info on them here:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2004-09/1096535182
(or http://soc.genealogy.medieval.narkive.com/AaGWWDuc/cp-addition-margaret-wife-of-1-sir-john-deiville-and-2-adam-de-everingham , the last post.)Little John was the key. When i saw John Deyville was called a "homo callidus et bellator fortis" ["a man clever/cunning/canny (or hard or hot) & a warrior strong/doughty"] it seemed so much like Little John in the stories. He also was a keeper of forest, and in ballad Little John knows well the paths of Sherwood.
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Water fluoridation ("kool-aid", wormwood) wrecks disadvantaged peoples (like me) lives/health/ability. -
Re Mr Hardcastle there is a Miss Hardcastle in CS Lewis' 'That Hideous Strength'.
http://www.gutenberg.ca/ebooks/lewiscs-thathideousstrength/lewiscs-thathideousstrength-00-t.txt-----
Little John [John Deyville] was Robin Hood's [Robert Deyville's] Big Brother.-
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p.s. It seems that 3 or 4 of {Robin Hood, Little John, Will Scarlet &/or Much Millersson} match with 3 or 4 of {Robert Deyville, John Deyville, Nichole/Nicholas Deyville &/or Jocelin/Goscelin Deyville}, but we are not certain which way around {Will & Much} and {Nichole ("victory people") & Jocelin ("just one")} match.
Nichole/Nicholas Deyville (cousin, at Caunton, deputy Sherifff of Notts, a custos pacis, a leader of rebels).
(Sir) Jocelin Davil/Dainell (cousin, valletus/yeoman, notorious, at Deighton north of Pontefract, aid of Thomas Earl Lancaster, at Sherburn-in-Elmet) (combined details for both of the 2 or all of the 3 (generations) Jocelins).
Looks like more likely the other way around than posted above? (Much ~ Nicholas, Goscelin ~ Will Scarlet.)
Also saw another alternative candidate for Gilbert Whitehand : "the parliament with the Whit Bende".
Oscar De Ville sounds abit like Oscar Wilde. There are probably many secrets known to the Vatican (Library).
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I think i may possibly have just solved it. Robin Hood, Little John and Will Scarlet maybe match Robert Deyville, John Deyville (strong man) and Nichole Deyville. Thanks to John M who directed me to this page which gives alot of info about them http://www.robinhoodlegend.com/robert-hod-cambridge/ . If this is right then of course it means that EF Jacob more or less already discovered Robin Hood in/by/before 1925. John M was right about Bower & . "Merry Christ-mas" "Merry Men".
Here is a first table for the possible Deyvilles scenario (all possible candidates, but gen in order of first most likely, last least) :Abbot of St Mary's ~ Simon of Warwick [Simony] (justice in 1268) 1258/1263?
Alan A Dale ~ Adam [de Newmarket?] kinsman of Devilles? Ad(e)lingfleet 1265? Jocelyn Deyville?
Bishop of Hereford/Ely ~ Robert Deyville of Ely 1266/7? Robert Hod of Ely/Cambridge 1269? Isle of Axholme? Bp of Dunkeld? John de Breton debts/owed/disappears c1255/1261/1265? Earl of Hereford 1321? Bp of Durham betw 1301/1321 & 1322/1317? "Hereford RH 1263" (Graham)? William Bereford justice of King's bench (Edw 1)? monk Andrew Simpson?
Gilbert Whitehand ~ Foliot/Wellow connected with Gilbert de Gant? Nigle d'Albini? Gilbert earl of Glou-cester 1265/7? Jocelin? Gilbert de Middleton 1317?
High Justice ~ [Reginald justice of Chester?] Simon of Warwick justice in 1268? William Bereford justice of King's bench (Edw 1)?
John Little/LeTall/Naylor (always count money, like brother to RH, "Scot") ~ Et Sire Jo(h)n Deyville/D'Eyvile/d'Ayvil(l)/deEyvill/deDaiville/Davill [similar to de Nevill] (strong warrior) 1260s? St John Baptist's Day 1265? John de Vesci? little john & petit johan 1292? son John (served at Falkirk 1298)? Jocelin (served in Marches of Scotland 1318) 1321/1326? John Mowbray 1321/1326?
King Edward ~ Lord Edward 1265 (later king)?
K Edward 1 1265/1272/1298? Edward 2 (defeat at Hood) 1323?Much/Midge (Mich(ael)/Mitch) (sometimes replaces Will Scarlet as 3rd) ~ Nichole Deyville [Nick]? Sowerby forester John de Midgley late 1200s? Petit Johan 1292?
Queen Catherine ~ Scot Queen Margaret? Q Eleanor?
Robin/Roberd Hood/Goodfellow [Peter?] ~ Robert Deyville/deEyville (family home at Hode/Hood 1264)? Robert de Ferrers? Roger Godberd 1266? RH of Ely/Cambridge? Green Man York Minster 1270-80?
Ranulf earl of Chester ~ Reginald de Grey [Reginald justice of Chester]? battle Chesterfield 1266? Robert of Gloucester? Robert de Nevill?
Reynold (Greenleaf (RG)) ~ Reginald de [Grey]? Deyville? Roger Godberd (RG)?
Sir Richard at Lee (as if 2 diff kts, changed livery 2nd visit) ~ Sir Richard Foliot 1271/2 (changed sides 1263/4)? Sir John Deyville? Nichole [n/r like Nicholas/Lincoln]? Richard Hood of Sowerby 1274?
Sheriff of Nott ~ William de Grey in conflict with outlaws 1266? Reginald de Grey?
Simon over the Lee, the Noble Fisherman ~ Simon de Montfort the younger 1265? Simon de Montfort earl of Leicester?
Sire Guye of (Good) Gisburn [relative?] ~ Walter Ewyas &/or/of (Roger) Godberd? Sir(e) Gosselin/Jocelin Davil(le)/Dainell 1321 (hanged & drawn)?
Sir/Red Roger of Doncaster [insider?] ~ Roger de Doncaster (Nott, 1267-70)? Roger de Mowbray 1295? Roger Godberd? Richard Bp of Dunkeld? Roger son of Robert [Hod] (Ely) 1269? Sire Roger of Clifford 1321? Sir Roger Mortimer 1321? Peter's son Roger 1323?
St Austin ~ Augustinians 1256? St Oswald?
St Richard of Cirencester 1262?
Will(iam) Scarlet ~ cousin Nichole De(y)Ville [St Nicholas in Red] 1264? William Page (Ely/Cambridge)? Walter Ewyas? Selby? Wellow?
3: Robin, John & Will/Much ~ 3: Robert Deyville, John Deyville & Nichole Deyville? Roger Godberd, John Deyville & Walter? Roger of Clifford, John Mowbray & Gosselin Davill?
Barnsdale ~ family manor near Barnsdale? Foliot's other property? Ferresdale? [Franesfield?] Barnwell 1269? St Barnabas 1269?
Gam(e)well ~ Gargrave 1264? Caunton? [Cauntelo 1254?] Egmanton? Grymestone/Grimston 1264? Hambleton Hills? James de Audrey? Kenilworth 1266/c1322?
Holderness ~ Scarborough? Hode/Hood 1264? Axholme? Ely? brun Robin de North Coldone 1279-81? Broun Robyn de Holm of Holderness 1292?
Lee ~ Lewes 1264? a vill called Lea 12 mi east of Blythe, near Fenwick/Deighton? Leicester (Montfort)?
Loxley ~ Kenilworth 1266/c1322 (Loxley manor granted to Kenilworth priory 1253)? vill called Lea east of Blythe? Jocelin (De(y)Ville)? Longshanks? Roxburgh? K Alexander? Axholme?
Nottingham ~ Nottingham .../1304/5? Northampton 1264? Northallerton? Norwich?
RH's Bay / Whitby ~ John Deyville reappointed keeper of Scarborough castle 1264, & Hode 1264, &/or in isle of Axholme with Simon de Montfort the younger 1265 ["Alnwick"]?
Sherwood (LJ knew well) ~ wodes & feldes 1266? refuge as outlaws in Sherwood? family manor in Sherwood? Godberd Sherwood/Charnwood? Sherburn in Elmet 1321?
Verysdale ~ Ferresdale in Rufford charter? Worsboroughdale? Barnsdale? Wellow?
[I think i saw some versions (like Noyes?) say RH died in a tower? ~ RG died in Newgate Prison in 1276 in alternate source?]
RH b 1160 / fl 1266 (Bower) / 1283 (Wyntoun) / Edw 1 (Polychronicon) ~ Godberd/Deyvilles 1260s? Godberd 1265-1276? unnamed 13th cent outlaw Muskham chronicle?
RH d dec 1247/1274 ~ submitted to Edward 1265? [Deyville died (before) 1295? and/or Mowbray died 1295?] comet 1265? battle Evesham 1265? safe passage Dec 1266? inquest 1275? place Hode/Hood 1264? Godberd died 1276? Sir Henry Deyville of Gargrave d 1264?Sir Richard's ancestors 100 yrs knights ~ Foliots in 1110, 1165, 1270/2, 1290? [Compare RH 1160 to Deyvilles/Godberds 1260s (like 1247/1274 / 1347/1374)?]
RH & LJ pardoned ~ Deyvilles submitted to Lord Edward in 1265? "Godberd pardoned in 1266 / by K Edw 1"? Jocelyn & Robert pardoned 1318? Jocelyn pardoned 1322?
400 pounds (unlikely after 1279) ~ John Deyville's settlement of a mortgage of 400 pounds to Abbot of St Mary's in 1276?
I noticed another possible parallel:
3/4: RH, LJ, WS (&/or Much).
3/4: ("Jesus",) Peter, John, (James (&/or Andrew)).
If so, there may be at least 2 brothers in the 3 or 4 persons,which might poss support Deyville theory? -
19 hours ago, benjamin1945 said:
perhaps not Hereford but hereward which is an old name in cambridgshire which puts it close to Ely
Thankyou Benjamin, thats an interesting idea to checkout that i didn't think of. (I have wondered if Hereward the Wake might link with Herewig ancestor of Robert Butler of Skelbrooke http://midgleywebpages.com/skelbrooke.html , and/or with Wakefield.)
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Someone has blocked or is blocking me from being able to post on the blue boar Robin Hood forum anymore. So i have to post this that i worked on on last 1-2 wholedays here instead.(Keep getting forbidden, no permission to post reply there today. More persecution from Rome. Or have i been banned there because i said a few negative bits? Always the way, dirty rotten secret blockings etc against me that no one else knows about. (Sorry if it possibly wrong paranoia, but is strange thing & timing that never happened before.) I tried to use my years old other yuku account (i hope i don't get banned for multiple accounts, i had troubles when first joint years ago) but seems to have been deleted or else not remember/noted right password or username. I tried to create a new account there but still blocked from posting permission.)
Threads/topics on blue boar i was trying to reply to:
theblueboarinnrobinhooddiscussions.yuku.com/topic/1114/interesting-questions-andor-tidbits
theblueboarinnrobinhooddiscussions.yuku.com/topic/1115/Rob-Hod-Pipe-Roll-entry-E37270-12261227
(and theblueboarinnrobinhooddiscussions.yuku.com/topic/1106/Robin-Hood-lists-etc?page=3 )The main RH candidates theories include: Robert Fitzodo of Loxley, Fulk Fitzwarin, Robert Kyme, Robert Hod / Hobbehod (Owen), Roger Godberd (Baldwin), Robert Butler 1294, Robert Hood of Wakefield (Lockwood-Allen), Robert Hood of Newton (Hunter), "Lord" Robert Dore of Wadsley "Robert Hood" 1382 (Kirkby).
A new timeline attempt. (Was going to post the timeline in "RH lists" thread/topic and the comments in the tidbits thread, but have to do in one post now.)
876 Ivar the Boneless
1042-1189 utlaga/utlagi
1066 hastings/senlac
1070s Hereward the Wake
1065/72/1075 Waltheof (son Robert (Ranulf earl of Chester))
1080 Brunn/Bourne (Lincs);
1086 Doomsday book;
1095-1272 Crusades
"clues date to (lat) 11th cent" (RH legend)
11th & 12th cents Marian cult reached apogee in W Europe
b1110-d1165 Sir Robert Foliot
1111 Owain robberies
1111 Dunmow bacon
1120-9 Ranulf le Meschin 3rd Earl of Chester
1123 first park (woodstock)
1127 wild hunt in sky observed by people
1129-53 Ranulf de Gernon 4th Earl of Chester
1138 Peter of York, John of Beverley, Wilfrid of Ripon
1138 Scots raid N England, Abp appeal 'men of Sherwood'
1140 new bridge over trent
1140 Nott burned
1140-1194 outlaws
1141 battle Lincoln, appeal to 'men of Sherwood'
1153 Nott burned
1154-1189 Miller of Mansfield (300 pounds) (Henry 2)
1156 Nott town wall rebuilt
1160 "RH born" (Ritson 1795)
1160-1218 St Robert (Flower) of Knaresborough
1160/c1200-1220 Richard de Legh (Lord of West Hall, Legh, Cheshire)
1166 Robert son of Odo of Lochesleia Warwicks
1166-1553 Molyneux family of Loxley Warwicks
1175 Edwinstowe
1179 William Trussel/Russell
1179 Richard de la Lee & his bro Hugh set free an unnamed prisoner
1181 "a boy named Robert sacrified by the Jews"
1181-1232 Ranulf de Blondeville 6th Earl of Chester
"1185 RH's supposed escape from prison"
"1188 RH & LJ Whitby Abbey/Laths"
1189-1199 K Richard 1 chased "hart" from Sherwood to Barnsdale
by 1190 drop in merchant & trading traffic, rise in religious
1190s Robertus filius Odonis (liber niger sicarrii) *
1191 priest or monk of pipe-roll [supposed to be similar to RH & Monk]
1191/4/7 Robert de Hood/Huda (Northants, 7 entries piperolls)
1191-1221/1254 Robert de Huntingdon le Scot
1194 storming/siege of Nott Cas by K Rich
1196 "Fitzodo of Loxley is no longer a knight"
c1196 Robert fil Alan de Ridale;
betw 1160-1196? 'master R' (of church of welburn, ridale letters);
1196/1202/3 (sir) robert (fitzodo/fitzooth) (of Harbury/Loxley/Uttoxeter)
1198 Robert de Hood (Cumberland/Cumbria)
1198 Herkelea, Rogsi
1198 / 9th Rich 1 "RH died" (RH grave, Major HMB 1521)
1199 "RH & LJ" (Rapin's)
1199 Rob de Hodelme *
1199 Will Scarlet (Somerset)
"12th cent" LJ's Shot (Dublin)
1200s Robin more pop than Robert
1200 : 15 kts sent after Fulk Fitzwarin (Shrops/Welsh)
1200-1215 Giles Bp of Heref
1202 Ragnild wife of John Hood
1202-3 Baldwin (de) Hod(e)net;
1205-9 extension of Nott castle
1206 Robert Hod (Lincoln assize roll) *
1210 robber (rule of St Francis);
1210/1225/1226/1227/1265 Robert de Kyme (of lindsey/at wenlock) outlaw (grievious offenses); *
c1212-6 robert son of robert fitzwalter
[c1213] Major Oak 800 yrs old
1213 Robert Hood (servant of Abbot of Cirencester, Gloucs)
1216 "R." chaplain of Robert Fitzwalter
1218 Livery giver
1221&2 Linton near Wetherby in St Peters lands/juristicion
1223-30 Robert Hod witness deed at Follifoot next to Plumpton park fro Will de P & Rob de P;
1224 franciscans & dominicans in England (Henry 3)
1225/6-34 Robert(i) Hod outlaw/[felon?] (cross, St Peter 1234); *
1225 Robert Hod (Bucks);
1225 Hod fled;
1226-7 Robert Hod fugitive, Iuonis/Ivo Marton, William Warin Ottringham Holderness *
1226-30 Robert (of) Wetherby
1227 forest laws
undated 13th C 'lib niger' 'Robert Fitzodo/Fitzothoh'.
ear 13th cent : 2 inscribed bells of Skelbrooke church
1227-28 Hobbehod (St Peter's York 1227) (Owen). *
1229-30 Robert(i) Hood fugitive/[felon?] & Iuonis *
c1230 pre-cricket
c1230/34 Robert Hod (Worcs)
1230/1240 RH (Berks)
1231 sir robert thwing of danby;
1233-4 Robert Hod S Petr cross in Grimston *
1234 Robert Odde (Somerset)
1237 Robert Hod (Devon)
1241-63 Robert Hod de Linton (Wetherby) *
1242 Robert son of Eudo
1242/5/7/8 Robert/Robertus (de/of) lokeslay/lokesley/Lockesly/locksley
1242-3 RH de Linton
1242/1250s Henry 3's Assize of arms
1244 Dunmow bacon
1247/1274 "RH died" (RH grave, Ritson 1795)
1248 Gilbert Blanchard
1250 Grey friary Nott
1251-3 Sherwood/Shirewood
1254 william de Cauntelo buried Studley
"1254 Robert de Huntington pardoned"
1258 unknown William Tuk
1260s Robert Hod (Yorks) *
1260s/1265/c1272/1276 Roger Godberd outlawed?1261/2 William de Fevre / (William) Robehod/Rabunhod (Berks)
1262 St Richard of Chichester
1263 RH Hereford,
1264 Robert de Ferrers outlawed
1265 Baron's revolt
1265-72-1307 Edw 1st
1266 Will de Grey Sh of Nott in conflict with outlaws in Sherwood *
1266 "Robert Hood & LJ, disinherited [Lincs], sicarius, mass, piety, c1266" "k H3 & prince Ed 1" (Fordun/Bower 1440).
1267-70 Roger de Doncaster (Nott)
1271 hats first mentioned (Henry 3)
1272-1307 "RH, Sherwood" (Edw 1) (Polychronicon/Luxford)
1272 Nott, Leic, Derb, ways, woods nos of robbers... (Patent rolls)1272 William Robehod (Berks)
1272 John Rabunhod (Hants);
1272 Alexander Robehod (Essex)
1274 Richard Hood [son of Rob Hood] of Sowerby
1275 Scarlet family (Blidworth)?
1275 / late 13th cent Gododdin
1276 Carmelite friary Nott
1279/80 "Scarlet Cross" [Scarlet Close?]
1279-81 brun Robin de North Coldone
1279-88 Sherwood/Shirewood
c1280 Jeu de Robin et Marion
1280 Eoth K's felon Connaught
1283 "LJ & RH Inglewood & Barnsdale" (Wyntoun's 1420).
late 1200s Sowerby forester John de Midgley
13th cent unnamed outlaw, Muskham chronicle1283 Robertus Robehod of Walsham le Willows (Suffolk)
[1285] Roberdsmen/Robertsmen 13 Ed 1
1285 Statute Winchester Edward I everyman arms;
1286/1296 Gilbert Robehod/Robynhod (Sussex)
1287 William Scathlock (St Mary's);
1290 Sir Richard Foliot
1290 Edward tourn
later 13th cent : Edward 1 recruited men of Sherwood
1292 Broun Robyn de Holm of Holderness
1292 Hostel Robin Hod/RH Inn London
1292 little john & petit johan1294 Robert Robehod (Hants);
1294 Robert 3 Butler (b 1275)
1294 Robert le Mouner [Miller] of Paynel Hoton 1294 (Skelbrooke)
1294/1297/1318 London councilor Robert Hod/Hoode
1295/1323/1337/1353 kt Richard de Touneley/Townley
1296-7 John Hood [of Sowerby]
1298-1304 exchequer/chancery at York
13th/14th cent setting of ear ballads
13th cent Haxey hood?
1300s (Gawaine &) Green Man
"14th cent Rich of Westminster/Cirencester's" 'ed Situ Britanniae'
14th cent peasants still oppresed & downtrodden
"there were no friars in Engl before the 14 cent"?
livery not til 14th cent?
1300-78 Robert "Litelrobyn"
1301/9 Roger de Doncaster; 1302 Roger of Doncaster
"1304" William Wallace "Scottish Robin Whood" (18th cent)
1305 robert/broun Robyn le Batour
1306 Barnsdale rife with robbers *
ear 14th cent Guard raised passing thru Barnsdale *
1307-27 Edw 2nd (sodomy, Berkeley castle)
1308/1314/16/23/47 robert hood of wakefield/bichill/locewode (& John Littsells, William Stoodley, Michael son of Miller);
1309/1331/32 robert (hood) the grave of wakefield/at alverthorpe;
1310 Rob(ert) de Brunn
1311 Roger Robelard/[robarde?]
"by 1316" "william de studley dead" (Wakefield court rolls)
1317 William de Trent (Stanton)
1318 Will(iam) Scarlet
1318 [liteljohn?]/John le Litel (band radiers)1319 RH's Cross (Derby)
1319 defenders from York
1319-21 Richard de (la) Lee
1320-7 John de Montkyl & John Parker robbed TK of S (Edw 2)
1322 Little John of C0ckcroft
1323 Robert_le_brun
1323 investigations Royal Forests (Plumpton park)
1323 king Ed 2 in Lancs
1323 Edward 2 visit Nott
1323 Littel John (made off with deer, Yorks)1323/4 Robyn Hode/Hodjadis porter K Edw 2 (Hunter) *
1324/6/7-1340/6 RH's Bay (correspondence); *
betw 1324-46 witteby
1324/6 Dean of Doncaster
1325 Katherine Robynhod (London)
1327-77 Ed 3rd (parliament 15 x York, ref to as oure cumly king c1339, Bernesdale in records of, aid from Saylis);
brother Robert of York (of Knaresborough, K Edw 3)
1327 roger son of william of doncaster
1327-8 Robert de Wodehouse (Pontefract?)
1328 tournament york
1329 goods carried away Skelbrooke
1330 Edward 3 crept into Nott
1330/1333-1515 longbow1331 Roberdsmen/Robertsmen 5 Ed 3 (Statute Winchester)
1331 robert hood of newton (near wakefield) (Hunter)
1331-3 Robert de Wodehall
1332 Robert Robynhoud (Sussex)
1332 William de Skargill/Scargill
1332-3 Plumptoun Laund / Plumpton Hay, 1332-5 Plumpton walled in
1333 dangerous spot Galtres Yorks
1333 Roger de Doncaster
[1333 robert hode/hood of/at stanley?]
1335 parliament York
1340s York mystery plays
1341 Fordun (doesn't mention "RH & LJ 1266")
[1341/2] Rob./Robert de Edenstow/Edwinstowe 14/15 Ed 3
bef 1344 Richard de Leyes (Staffs)
1344 Satelites of Satan Fountains Abbey
1346-7 Saylis/Sayles contributed aid to K Edw 3
1346-9 Sherwood/Shirewood
1347/1374 "RH died".
1349 Richard Rolle at Hampole1350-1520 merry/merrie england
1350-1550 2-handed longsword
last half of 14th & beg of 15th cent grievances of poor
1353 shire-reevs tourn in brighouse
1354 Robert Hood (Rockingham/Northants)
1354-67 John Litel
c1355 tournaments Edward 3
[1357] William (de) Trent of Gunthorp 30 Ed 3
1359 haxey hood;
1361-4 Sir Richard Vernon (Gascony 1361, pilgrim 1364) *
1363 royal writ K Edward 3, sheriffs proclaim everyman learn archery
1363 Robert de Edwinstowe
1366 roger de Bangwell rector of Dronfield in Doncaster
1367 Robert de Huntingdon (Yorks)
1369 Chaucer's Canterbury tales
1371"RH attended St Mary's ch adj to Nott Market" (G Kirkby)
1371 Mary patron St of Tailors Guild / Guild of St Mary
1372 Rober Hotot
1376 York mystery plays
Foliot lords of Wellow to late 14th cent
14th cent Gawaine & Green Knight
1376 Gower (Robin/Marian)
c1377 William/Robert (of) Langland 'Piers Plowman' (RH & Ranulf EofC)
1377 English
c1377-84 Fordun 'Scotichronicon' ("Robert Hood & LJ, sicarius, mass, piety, c1266")
1379 Agnes of Handworth & Robert Hode
1380 rob Peter to pay Paul (Wyclif)
1380 mayor John Gisbourne
1380 poll tax; 1380/1 peasants revolt (John Ball, Jack Straw);
1381 Hobb the Robber
1381 Robert Robynhoud (Sussex)
1381 Robert Hood of Hereford (merchant)
1382 pardon of Robert Dore "Robin Hood"
1382/1409 William Tempest of Studley
1388 4th black death/pest
c1390 The Merchant's Surety **
1393 uprising Cheshire/Chester
1394 Richard 2nd visits Chester
1394 Sir Guy of Warwick
"no Robert of Huntingdon bef 1397"
1397 archers Cheshire/Chester
1400 Brunn/Bourne (Lincs)
1410 "RH was here" Lincoln cathedral
1410/1420 'Linc Cath Lib Ms' ("RH in Sherwood", 1st RH song/rhyme)
1412/1414 roberthoad (a woman)
1414 most friars expelled
1417-29 Robert Stafford "Frere Tuk" (chaplain from Lindfield Sussex)
c1420 Wyntoun's Orygynale Chronicle ("LJ & RH Inglewood & Barnsdale 1283").
1422 RH's Stone, Slephil (Monkbretton Priory cartulary)
1429 legal maxim (RH in Barnsdale),
1429 Piers Venables likened to RH
1432 "RH in Grene Wode in an acrostic in a Parliamentary return"
1432 Reynoldyn (in comic list of outlaws in the Wilts parliamentary rolls)
1438 Robene Hude (ship, Aberdeen)
1439 misdoers in Derbyshire "like Robyn Hode"
1440 Bower revised Scotichronicon interpolation ("Robert Hood & LJ, Barnsdale, disinherited, sicarius, mass, piety, c1266")
1441 Robynhodesmen (Norfolk)
1444 William Tempest of Studley
1444 Richard Robinson a servant in household of Earl of Shewsbury
later half of 15th cent enclosures, Livery
after 1450 / 1465 / 15th cent RH & the Monk (earliest ballad, LJ knows paths Sherwood well, Nott);
c1455 Vernon (Yorkist).
1456-60 John Robhode/Robewode of Walsham
1460 an unknown monk / Witham priory chronicle / 'Polychronicon' margin, 'Luxford note' (RH, Sherwood, Edw 1) (2009).
1460 robbers; 1461 robbers;
1461-93 comely K Edward 4th reigned 22yrs (merchant king, Tanner of Tamworth);
1468 RH & the Potter (Wentbridge, Nott, unnamed forest)?
1469 Robin of Holderness / robin of redesdale
c 1470s/1475 RH & the Sheriff (earliest Friar Tuck ref)
1485 RH's Close Notts
1488/1489 Robin Goodfellow(’s brother) (Yorks); 1488 Hodekin;
1492 Star Chamber complaint (RH & his men)
1498 Roger Marshall of Wednesbury "RH" (Staffs)
after 1400s RH's Tower Richmond Castle
c1500 Gest (Saylis, went at a bridge, Barnsdale, St Mary's York, (forest close to) Nott, Kirklees)
c1500 Barclay's Ship of Fools (RH or MM)
1500s RH & LJ Inn Hatfield
c1503 RH & the Potter?
1509-47 alleged Robin Hood from the reign of Henry the 8th
1518 May games (Somerset) (Robin Wood)
1521 Major HMB
c1540 Leyland's Collectanea Itinerary
1540 rob Peter to pay Paul
1544-51 katherine & john robhood
1548 wake-robyn/robin_Wake
c1568 Kirk-o-Fields
1569 Grafton (way)
1584 Reginald Scot (Robin Goodfellow, Hodekin);
1592 Stow's AoE (rib rich give poor)
1598 RH('s) Buttes Cumberland/Cumbria
late 16th cent Shakespeare
1598/1601 Munday (Robert E of Hunt)
1600s Dodsworth
1607 Camden
1609 Guy Fawkes & assocs branded "RHs" by Robert Cecil
1622 RH Tower York
1622 Drayton's Polyolbion
c1637 Jonson 'Sad Shepherd' (RH)
1652/1680 LJ's grave St Michael's Hathersage (Derby)
1673 RH's Butts (Surrey);
17th cent Broadside ballad (1st appearance Alan a Dale)
mid-17th cent Percy Folio ms
1700 RH's Cave / woods of Bishops hill
1700 1st RH placename Sherwood
1765 Percy
1786 John Little (Beeston, Notts)
1795/1820/32 Ritson ("RH born 1160, died 1247/1274 at 87 yo")
18th cent William Wallace "Scottish Robin Whood" ("1304")
1818 Sir W Scott 'Ivanhoe'
1852/83 Hunter (RH of Newton)
1883 Pyle
1911 Encyc Britannica
1936 Owen (Hobbehod)
1957 R Graves
1976/7/1997 Dobson & Taylor
1982/9 Holt
1984 Carpenter/ITV Robin of Sherwood
1985 Bellamy
1987 Keen
1991 RH Prince of Thieves
1994/97/2003 Stephen Knight
1997 Child
2001 B Green (Yorks)
1997/2007 Ohlgren
2009 Luxford (1460)
2009 JP Davis 'Unknown Templar'
2010 Baldwin (Godberd)Comments:
At this time of year we wonder about the RH Grave inscription "24 kalends Dekembris" [or "18 November"] "1247" [or "1347"].
Regarding the Bishop of Hereford [or Ely] there is a question of if the "Bishop's Tree" is actually genuine or not, and so whether the bishop was traveling between Hereford/Ely and York, or if was a local Hereford/Ely Robin Hood separate story merged in.
I wonder if Robin Goodfellow indicates Roger Godberd?
Jolly Robin and Jolly Roger??
Bonny Robin and Br(o)un Robin??Re 400 pounds of Sir Richard, i found 300 pounds in the Miller of Mansfield which supposed to be set in Henry 2nd's reign.
I always still wonder if Chaucer's Canterbury Pilgrims connect with Robin Hood. It is just so strange that quite a few characters so similar.
RH -- Chaucer
Knight -- Sir Richard at Lee
Squire -- Little John?
Yeoman -- Robin Hood?
Prioress -- Prioress of Kirklees
nun --
monk -- RH & the Monk? Tuck?
Friar -- Friar Tuck
Merchant -- cf Robert Dore of Wadsley?
Clerk of Oxenford --
Barrister/Sergeant-at-law --
Franklin --
poor parson - similar to - Robin Hood.
RH & LJ & WSRobert Bruce, John Balliol, William Wallace??
From the new timeline we post in the RH lists thread:
We have divided/broken the timeline into sections with the breaks at places of seeming significant historical Robin Hood dates.
Strange that St Richard may suggest date later than Hobbehod. (Could St Richard also imply anything else about Sir Richards name or location??)
1166-c1377 seems to be the maximum range for Robin Hood candidates.
It is interesting that 3 witnesses/sources claim RH was in 1266-1283 time period (Bower, Polychronicon, Wyntoun). (Though why didn't Fordun mention?) This is time of Godberd (& Foliiot). Sheriff of Nott conflict with outlaws 1266, and numbers of robbers in 1272. Fits with St Richard.Interesting that there are a few possible Lincoln(shire) RH connections: Kyme of Lindsey; Lincoln Green; Witham ms; Lincoln cathedral ms; [Sir Richard G & St Mary's Cathederal?] [Witham sword?]
I am puzzled by the Hobbehod versus Kyme dates and pros & cons.
K Edward 3 seems to have quite a few pros for being king of Robin Hood of the Gest. Gest says "Edward", and the "our (comely) king" implies writer/composer was contemporary while its date would be later rather than earlier. Edw 3 parliament 15 x York, Edw 3 ref to as oure cumly king c1339, Bernesdale in records of Edw 3 (in British History site, which i can't view unless pay for), Edw 3 aid from Saylis, crept into Nottingham, robertsmen, brother Robert of York [Friar Tuck candidate], tournaments, royal writ everyman archery. Plumptoun Laund / Plumpton Hay during Edw 3 reign.
Edw 1: every man arms, tourn 1290, recuit men of Sherwood, roberdsmen, polychronicon, statute Winchester everyman arms, barnsdale rife with robbers. Time of Robert Butler of Skelbrooke.
Edw 2 (of Hunter's theory): visited Nottingham, in Lancs (like in Gest), "sodomy" (like French claim of RH / merry men), Berkeley similar to Kirklees, investigation royal forests incl Plumpton Park, porter named RH (jadis may imply previously).
Edw 4th: 22yrs, "comely", merchant king, Tanner ballad.
I am wondering if a research more into the 6 or 7 main sources (Muskham chron, Lincoln cath ms, Wyntoun, legal maxim, acrostic, Bower, Witham, Monkbretton) might lead to further connections/leads/discoveries.
2 sicari dates: liber niger sicari 1190s, "sicarius 1266" of Bower.
Is anyone in the local Notts & s/w Yorks areas willing & able to investigate some sites with a metal detector for me if i pay you for it? (I am still stuck in NZ on opposite side of the world.)
Cheers, Sean B.
checkout my "(King) Arthur's" 12 battles 9 battle sites of Nennius discovery too if interested ( http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36994 ).
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Fluoridated water ("kool-aid", wormwood) (& fluoridated food) wrecks disadvantaged peoples (like me) lives/health/ability. -
Sorry again, i just have an email reply from step-aunt that "part of it - the part [they] sent me" was written by grandmother. This is darn impossible. There is no way to tell who/which wrote &/or typed some parts of the life story / memoirs. I assume that "granddad" Edwards typed it though, and so the morse code looks very unlikely.
I have already wrecked my friendship with uncle Eric either/both because of this and/or because i am so difficult to help because of my difficult situation/conditon &/or because i am so negative because of hell i am suffering. As always it is always me that gets in trouble for my bad, while others get away with bad to me. -
Sorry i just checked and surely my step-aunt is wrong because the 2 pages text is clearly by my grandmother Rosalba not by "granddad" Edwards, since it says things like "Lisle", "he", etc. (I had emailed my uncle to ask if the life story / memoirs gives any date for when written (or the latest/last date in it). But turned out my uncle is away on a mission at present and step-aunt replied.)
-
Thats not true/fair. What is there to work with that i don't want to? I have already said that i will try to get my mother's and my aunty/unlce birthcert when i am able to, to check if it gives a parents living address. There is nothing else. (The few other suggestions people have made like the university book writer, italian clubs etc i also have to chase up if & when i am able to.) I just said i didn't have much good opinion of it, and that my situation & condition/sickness makes it extremly difficult. Its not the same for all. Most people aren't 42 and always been single like i am for example. Not everyone is stuck in miserable small distant NZ. Not everyone was fostered out at 6 until 16. Not everyone doesn't know who their real maternal grandfather is. Not everyone has fluoridated water. Etc. Someone on here (forum not thread) said they had another holiday home else where in UK.
Sorry i just found out from my step-aunty that the "book" was written by "Grandad" Edwards not by my Grandmother Rosalba. So the morse code (& phonetic) is very unlikely (though still faintly possible possibly?) I need to find out if anyone has anything written by my Grandmother or aunties. The only thing i know of so far is letters that my mother has (but which i can't really ask my mother to read them for me to find what i am looking for since the extra curse of lung cancer from God on top of already difficult enough). Surely my grandmother "must" have left some clue/code of the name somewhere or else she didn't care about us.
Its hopeless, I give up, and from this day forward i hate God and all humanity and myself (not just for this not ever being able to know who my real maternal grandfather surname was, but all the other 8 to 42 years of hell suffering). There is no hope in the world/humanity/regime or in myself (or in God after 8 years of trying). "Life" is hard for everyone, and this western regime makes it even harder, but some of us throughout world and history are cursed to suffer worse than others. "One has to bear what the gods deal us".I will just post the phonetic alphabet variants that i compiled from wikipedia article:
alfa/able/apples/ack/ace/affirm/amsterdam/ana/adam*
bravo/baker/beer/butter/baltimore/brazil/boston
charlie*/casablanca/coca/chicago/cain*
delta/duff/don*/dog/denmark/data/dixie/david*/denver
echo/edward*/edison/easy
fox(trot)/football/fredie*/florida/frank*
golf/gulf/gee/george*/gallipoli
hotel/harry/henry*/how/havana
india/ink/item/interrogatory/italia/ida
juliett/john(ny)*/johnnie/jig/jerusalem
kilo(gramme)/king
lima/love/london/liverpool/lincoln
mike*/monkey/emma/madgascar/metro/mary
november/nuts/nab/negat/nan/newyork/nectar
oscar*/orange(s)/oboe/oslo/ocean
papa/pudding/prep/pip/peter*/paris
quebec/queen(ie)
romeo*/roma/roger*/robert*
sierra/sugar/esses/santiago
tango/tommy/thomas*/toc/tare/tripoli
uniform/uncle/upsala/union
vic(tor)*/vinegar/valencia
whiskey/willie/william*/washington
xray/xerxes/xanthippe/extra
yankee/yellow/yorker/yoke/yokohama/young
zulu/zebra/zurich/zero
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Thank-you Bubblewrap, the site was of good/great use in collating list of Notts pow camps, though two previous people had also given me it too.
Ok thanks Annswabey.
This is not meant as antagonistic to you, this is just my frank opinion of stupid western system ways and rules.
I would have thought that the (Red Cross) Geneva War Archive would have had (or should have) lists of repatriated pows not just individual person files. And even if it is arranged that way *and computer/online* then one should be able to "search" for words like Italian and Nottingham and camp name and date etc. Any proper library/database/etc has at least 2 different indexes/catalogues like by name and by field/subject/group. If not on purpose then it at least is accidental favouritism for only people who know names. If one doesn't have a name then we have no or limited way to find-out without lists etc.
That fact that I didn't see it said that we "have to have a camp name or no list of pow camps" is proof of my point. (Though the twits say that they don't even have a full proper list/record of uk/shire pow camps.)
I don't think it is fair/right that only availiable after a 100 years or only if person proven dead. My maternal grandmother is dead, my commonly assumed maternal grandfather is dead, (so are my paternal grandparents,) so it is very likely that the pow is dead. In other words they don't give a stuff if i "live" all my "life" and die without ever knowing who my real maternal grandfathers family was.
The Red Cross arm name should therefore be "restoring **dead**/named war/crisis "families"".
BMD is no use since the affair was an unofficial unrecorded brief affair. Unless the certs of my mother & aunt/uncle give a living address (to try find any neighbours who might know something).
(Even if the pow gave my grandmother a name it could have been fake? I also don't know for sure whether he stayed or was repatriated. I also can't be totally sure whether the pow or Edwards is my real grandfather, though there seems alot of evidence now that the pow is real grandfather.)
This is Britains fault for being (suspisiously) so lax with its POWs, and being (suspiciously) so lax in not having their own proper records of pows/camps. And my grandmothers & grandfathers fault for stuipid affair (and coming to miserable nz). And both sides fault for the war.
I am sick of this NWO's regimes rules/laws always being against us and never for us.
I have no problem paying for it if i am actually paying for something worthwhile that i need/want. (Though i still think they charge rip off charges for certs etc.)
Most official people only care about themselves &/or money.I can only hope that my grandmother left a clue/code to the pows name.
The only other possible hope is genetic test to find genetic relations, but that seems to me dubious at the present stage of advancement, and i don't have the condition/health and situation to be able to do that (esp as they don't have that sort of testing here in miserible NZ) (and i aren't comfortible giving some stranger my dna/genetic info).
If only i was in Nottinghamshire or UK, then i would be able to visit the places and have far more/better resources. Doing this from miserable NZ is difficult enough. But the UK scraped the reciprocal benefits agreement between NZ & UK (yet they still have one with Israel!) And they only go by father not mother for british passport/citizenship. (I still have the right to live and work in uk and i can still apply to "register as a uk citizen" becauise my mother was born in Notts and my paternal grandfather was born in Durham, but i have to have 2 people who are commonwealth citizens who have known me for 3+ years to sign form vouching i am of good character, and depends if uk accept it or reject it. And then i have the problem of finding accomodation and income (work/welfare) in uk with my health disabilities.) -
Thank-you everyone. Sorry for missing the recent replies - sometimes i dont visit the forum much like when i'm busy, or if this and other forum threads seem slow/disinterested, or if i forget, or net connection troubles (i only have dialup and xp).
Thankyou Nonna, yes I had wondered about if there were any Brethren organisations (and/or Italian organisations) or people in Trowell or Underwood that might be able to help or know something, but i wasn't really sure how to find out. (My grandmother and commonly assumed grandfather were Brethren, the p.o.w. was Italian. I don't know whether the Italian pow stayed or was repatriated.) Its a good idea, i will have to try find out how to contact Italian ones there.
The Petrucci name turned-out to be just a blind guess of mother looking through phone book when she was in Notts a few years ago and wondering if that could be it.
A had since thought that there may be possible clue/s that the name was Giovanni.
But now I have just found that my grandmother may have left a morse code (& phonetic alphabet) clue in her memoirs in the relevant place & time. The code is possibly:
.,. = .-. = R = either Romeo/Roma/Roger/Robert?
However it could be wrong, it could just be a typing/writing mistake.
I am waiting to find out what date she wrote the memoirs. Does Annswabey and/or anyone else know how well known the uk/us/nato phonetic alphabet was known before ~1973?
I still have'nt heard back from the Red Cross restoring families. I have and am trying to be very patient, but I now more suspect that they are messing me around. If so it makes me angry that they didn't even have the decency to just say that they are not able/willing to help (on top of the not being willing/able to help itself (because they force it that we have to have a pow name and they won't give any repatriated Notts pows lists)). Nothing is impossible, but in my "life" so far alot of middle/upper people have certainly always seemed to try to make things extremely difficult. Any list/s of pows would certainly help me &/or my mother work out who the pow may or may not be (without necessarily contacting anyone or violating any privacy) (that is certain as I am an "amatuer" historian who has made at least one or a few or more historical discoveries with similar methods) (compare how the lists of pow camps helped narrow down likely camp/s). But i know that there are annoying privacy laws (similar to how the census is not released until after a 100 years, and to Jack the Ripper papers returned exactly a 100 years later). What use is it to me when everyone (me, my mother, my real grandfather, neighbours, pow camp staff, pow pals, etc) are dead? My grandmother and her sisters are already dead, so is my commonly assumed grandfather, and my mother recently had lung cancer operation. In 30 years i will be 72 if i don't die before then (and if the NWO hasn't gotten even more to bad hell). (That is why i thought about a private investigator, as they might perhaps have privacy-pass to view records/lists.) -
Some advice i'd give someone from lessons i have learnt in my life. (Sorry some are mundane and show how dumb i have been in my life.)
ingredients lists are in order of amounts
rinse everything (food, clothes) (not easy with fluoridated water & water sitting in tanks though).
always run the water before using (re soft water sitting in metal fittings/pipes/tanks) (and don't leave food in metal pots overnight).
be aware/wary of fluoridated (and alluminium-laced) public tap water.
don't buy into "corporate body"/"company share" flat
buyer beware (look over everything if able esp/incl accomodation)
women only like confident men
intimacy/romance is not just physical but all relationship like what some close friends/siblings have. & also must have all the steps & spots.
take care of things/everything (including teeth)
control your mouth / be careful of words i say
remember the sabbath day of rest
learn a trade/craft
be careful of buying dyed (or bleached) clothes (esp black and "made to fade")
always wash hands (esp before handling pen & paper).
cleanliness is next to godliness (re biological and chemical). (& need clean running tap water.)
don't buy laptops with flat keys keyboard.
always check sources of second hand sources if possible. & always check original languages as English/traditional translations are often inaccurate (eg Arthurian, Bible, Atlantis Account).
Don't attack unemployed/beneficiaries for what is successive governments fault (globalist free-trade cheap labour imports cause cost-cutting, restructuring and relocation).
"Body food" analogies (carrots look like eyes, citris like mammary, grapes like blood, tomatoes like heart). (Tho not easy when everything is sprayed.) & 'rainbow diet'.
Silver amalgam (mercury) fillings are bad.
Bottle-fed babies are 10 iq points lower, more prone to allergies, no antibodies transfer.
"I am not the criminal here" re water fluoridation arguments. -
Thankyou DJ360 for that new one.
Thanks for the awesome picture Cliff Ton.
Only the red dots in the map are camps. The 3 blue dots on my map are not camps but the 3 places where my grandmother lived from 1942 to 1947.
I may have got one or more dots wrong. Wikipedia says Bestwood is east of Hucknall and north of Bulwell, but when i plot the dot on the map it is southeast of Hucknall and ENE of Bulwell ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestwood_Village, Bestwood seems to be right in middle of my Bulwell tag string-line). (So let me know if any dots are wrong, as it may change what camp is or is not the most likely one.) -
I found a map of some of the pow camps in Notts. Sorry i couldn't get a very clear webcam picture (i wasn't able to do a screen shot as the printscreen doesn't seem to work), so the names are written out below. I could not find any way to attach file/photo so i had to upload it to a site and put link here ( www.freewebs.com/lifetradition/032839.jpg ). I have added a few other camps that people here mentioned, and a few from other sources.
pow camps Notts:
carlton Hall
carburton
norton
nether Headon
boughton
rufford Abbey
wollaton Park
nottingham
raf Langer
tollerton Hall
bunny Park
source: the state and the country house in notts 1937-67
by Matthew Kempson 2006.
It looks like Wollaton Park is the most likely (since it is the only closest one to (Hucknall or) Trowell or Underwood where my grandmother was), unless the camp was in Derbyshire across border. (Watnall was German not Italian?)
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Just an update: i haven't yet ordered the 2 certificates, or sent the advertisment to local Underwood/Nottingham papers over there yet, and i haven't heard back from the Red Cross yet, or done the genetic paternity test on the hair root yet, but I just had an idea before/when/after i woke up from sleeping/dozing the other day that my grandmother might have left a code of the Italian's name somewhere. If there is a code anywhere it would possibly be with something she gave my mother. My mother said she had some letters, but since my mother's bad news about the lung cancer about a month or so ago i am not sure that i will be able to ever find out if there is any code in them (i don't get out much and don't get to see my mother down in the next town much myself due to my own bad situation and condition, and she doesn't have any much free time anymore nowadays). Unless my mothers name is/has the code, though the only code in that may be the Guinevere for "unfaithful". Its a long shot, but is quite possible after thinking about everything. (I am not meaning any approving (by me or my grandmother) of the briefly "unfaithful" affair though.) Incidentally, some people here (Notts forum) seem very clever/talented with words etc. Italian/Romance names similar to my mother's 1st & middle names:
giovanni/john
giuseppe/joseph
guido/guy/vitus
guillaume/william
giulio/julius / giuliano/julian
giacomo/james/giacobbo/giacobbe/jacob
marco/marcus/mark
marinus
martin
maria/mario
I have also found out that my grandparents lived at Hucknall 1942-1944, at Trowell 1945(-1946?), at Underwood from (1946? or)1947 "for 5&a1/2 yrs". If the "affair with an Italian ww2 pow in Nottingham/shire" story is true, and if it was ca 9/10 months before my mothers birth, then i don't know yet whether they were in Trowell or Underwood in 1946. There is no way to find out the address in Trowell from birth certificates, but my commonly assumed grandfather worked at the Stanton Ironworks while they were there.
Apparently my commonly assumed grandfather Lisle/Eric worked in the Nottingham city council (as a sanitary inspector?) for the 5&a1/2 yrs that they were at Underwood seemingly.
I still would really like to shift to UK but is difficult re income/disability and accomodation situations (unless anyone there has any good ideas?) -
I found a few more
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events
sorry if this is a wee bit off topic but
The sun is our biggest enemy in these technological times, a large X8 or X9 solar ejection would render us back to pre industrial age era. We have come to rely on modern electronics way too much.
A flare as big as that hitting earth would kill our electricity supply industries, render all means of communicating useless except direct contact, render all trains, trucks cars, planes etc to scrap metal.
Even our food source's, the farms would be thrown back to old methods of cultivation.
Can anyone imagine a world without electricity, telephones, cars, trucks, trains, planes and ships, without running water or waste water treatment, no working hospitals, no central or national governments, where cities and towns are the most dangerous places to live??
That's how vulnerable we really are.
Some of us have been suffering hell enough just with things like fluoridated (& alluminium-laced) water. I don't have any clean running "home" tap water here. (The thugs evade by trying to claim that getting a water filter is easy solution but it is not.)
Some people are being cut off from electricity for refusing smart meters (does any one hear about them?), some of us are being forced to choose between changing to broadband or going without if we are not able/willing to. We can't get unsprayed food (even organics spray).
There was an NBC TV show a couple of years back called Revolution. It was a sci fi story based on all power going off on earth. Story line good, directing excellent and acting first class.
The only thing I found fascinating was everyone had perfect white teeth after being without dentists...LOL
But a good indicator of what life probably would be like without our modern conviences.
Those people that had good diet & cleanilness had good teeth before water fluroidation and before modern western diet/lifestyle.
"As Hillel the Elder had stated, whosoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whosoever that saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world."
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historical Robin Hood search
in General Chat about Nottingham
Posted
Wow 2 and a half pages of new posts since i last visited, which i will have to read. Thanks everyone.
The update that i came to post is this: Our new ebook on Robin Hood and Roger Godberd (of Sherwood & Notts) is here http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?BookID=108 . So far we have only done 11 chapters and there are still half a dozen or so more yet to do including ones on the Bishop of Hereford, Alan a Dale, etc. The small ebook is maybe written abit too technically and/or not written very well for general public though, so we might later find someone to rewrite a better version of it for everyone (with pictures etc too).