Xmas memories of Model Railways and a question for Beefsteak

[firbeck 860]

Well, we've had trains, aircraft, trolleybuses, etc etc, but Xmas was always a time when we aquired the latest new item from Hornby Dublo. My father always bought his HD stuff from a stall in Central Market, it was a kiosk situated roughly in the centre of the market and dealt exclusively in Meccano Ltd products, father would order something weeks before Xmas and they would be saved or obtained for him, I still have some of the engines in their original boxes with his name written on them. I'm sure that the old man used to have some sort of payment scheme going as HD was so expensive, which I suspect is why he never bought anything from Gee Dee or Beecrofts, besides, the bloke who ran the store was so friendly and well informed, they were like old mates. I recall that in the early 60's that the bloke had a heart attack and died suddenly, his wife tried to run the stall but I don't think it lasted long after that, can anyone remember this place and the name of the chap that ran it, my mother hasn't a clue.

The reason I brought this subject up was because I watched James Mays Toy Stories last night, the one where he ran a model railway from Barnstaple to Bideford. It raised a few questions in my mind, causing me to look into the history of model railways and this raised a question for Beefsteak.

Hornby Dublo were taken over by Triang, then Wrenn, then a company called Dapol. Dapol aquired all the original HD moulds, artwork, etc, etc, but their factory was destroyed in a fire in 1995 and all this history was lost forever. Thing is, their factory was situated in WINSFORD, I wondered whether you might have a bit more knowledge about this Beefsteak, it was clearly a bad day for the Hornby Dublo keen types like me, unfortunately, I'm a very lapsed keen type, I have everything carefully stored away, but haven't taken an interest in it for years and didn't know about this disaster.

Incidentally, James May should have used his Hornby Dublo WC Pacific, that I know he has, with it's fantastic HD Ringfield motor, incomparable, it's been tested non stop up to 1000 miles, I have one myself, I reckon I could get it out the loft now load it up with 20 carriages and it will run and run, now thats an interesting idea............

[Fynger 841]

Sounds like 'Eric'....used to buy loads of Meccano off him.

[rob237 89]

Yes...Eric (Carpenter?) rings rather a loud Dominion of Canada bell.

Childhood financial constraints meant more drooling, than buying - but the HD I did accumulate was usually from Lee & Goodjohn on Nuthall Road. Eventually ran Silver King and Duchess of Montrose in 3-rail.

At Xmas I bought a basic Hornby electric set for my 8 year old grandson (honest!), which I set up for him on Boxing Day...

Thought that the much trailed James May model rail programme was dire...

Cliche riddled throughout, with the Oz Clarke 'expert' role bordering on the farcical. Clearly Simon Koeler, of Hornby, covered his immense track outlay with the contrived 'success' of his newly released Javelin set.

Apparently, he'd lobbied the Beeb for an earlier slot in the series in order to boost Hornby Xmas sales...to no avail!

Cheers

Robt P.

[littlebro 234]

May should have tried the Hornby "Lord of the Isles", magnetic traction and large drive wheels, from memory it went like greased lightening.

The prog was rather a let-down.

[firbeck 860]

Thanks chaps, the name Eric rings a bell but Carpenter, not sure, I wouldn't be surprised if his name is somewhere amongst my HD stuff, at least I have a hint when I go looking.

What happened to your set then Rob, my brother had the Sir Nigel Gresley set for Xmas in 1950 and it got expanded over the years, shoved in the loft, then I started collecting in the 70's and 80's. I had a lovely layout set up at one time, but since I moved here it's been stored away, but hopefully not for much longer, I have aspirations on the loft, power and light have gone up there along with the set.

I'll have to dig out my stock list sometime, I still have all the old stuff plus additions, all in 3-rail, heres a taster.

Locos:

Sir Nige, LNER x 2

Silver King

Mallard

Duchess of Atholl LMS

Duchess of Montrose, matt

Duchess of Montrose, gloss

N2 LNER Green

N2 LMS Black

N2 BR

N2 rare late BR with coal

Standard 2-6-4 tank x 2

Bristol Castle x 2

LMR 8F

WC Dorchester

Deltic

D8000

Diesel Shunter

I've got to get this lot up and running, they just need a bit of TLC, thats all.

I take your point about the programme, but it clearly didn't offend me as much as it did you, at least James May was prepared to admit that he knew little about model railways and his programmes have promoted classic toys, even if it has given free advertising to some companies, including Hornby.

Incidentally, the featured WC pacific, Ottery St Mary, was a Bournemouth based loco for most of it's life and was unlikely to have been used very often on the ACE.

Got loads of Southern pics by the way, probably more than even local stuff, I always had a great affection for their steam locos.

Lord of the Isles, single driver, no chance, even with 'Magnahesion' or whatever, it's that naff motor they use thats an off shoot from Tri-ang days, MO3 I think they call it, Hornby Dublo tried a development of it in Bristol Castle and it was always useless, it was clearly the same motor in Mays Flying Scotsman.

[Beefsteak 305]

No idea regarding the factory in Winsford , I didn't move here till 1997 though, I'll ask SWMBO when she gets in from shopping.

[rob237 89]

My information is that the major Dapol fire was at Northwich, not Winsford...

"...In 1994, while the company was moving to its previous location at Llangollen in North Wales, a huge fire destroyed the old site at Northwich near Manchester, and large quantities of products and historical Wrenn material were destroyed"

Cheers

Robt P.

[Beefsteak 305]

SWMBO remembers a 'train' factory, and was working next door to it when it burnt down. It wasn't on any of the industrial estates , but in a little back street in the town centre

[firbeck 860]

Sorry Rob, I beg to differ, from the oficial Wrenn website:-

The Dapol years (Winsford 1993 to 1994, and Llangollen 1995 to 2001)

News of the ‘take-over’ by Dapol appeared in a ‘News Special’ section of the Railway Modeller in August 1993. The moulds, the presses, the parts, the spares and whatever completed items remained, were transported to the Dapol premises in Winsford, along with the paper records of the company, and David Boyle and his staff began the initial process of sorting out what they had.

Adverts appeared in the Railway press in August 1993 encouraging people to take their ‘last chance to buy original Wrenn wagons in Wrenn boxes’, on average at £10 per item (Big money in those far off days when most Wrenn wagons on the secondary market were changing hands at £6-£10 each). On reflection of course there were some real bargains to be had – W5100 Wrenn Railways Ventilated Van and W5105 Jaffa at £10!!! These adverts continued until April 1994, and the wagons that were sold did appear in original Wrenn boxes, but predominantly with Dapol style printed labels on the box ends. These wagons (58 of them) are now catalogued as "The Winsford Wagons" and are highly collectable as a complete and different set.

Much of the energy of Dapol seemed to be deflected from Wrenn railways products at this time, with no locos ever being offered for sale, no coaches ever offered for sale, and no further advertising for the sale of the wagons. The energy seemed to be consumed in the move of the Company from Winsford in Cheshire, to its new home at The Lower Dee Mill in Llangollen, Denbighshire.

The Company started the transfer of their production line in late 1994, to the new Llangollen site. In January 1995, with some of the Wrenn items still at Winsford, there was a massive fire at the Winsford site, with literally millions of pounds worth of damage to the contents. Luckily (for Wrenn collectors at least), the majority of the Wrenn items had already been moved to the new site at Llangollen, but undoubtedly, the fire consumed a large part of the G. & R. Wrenn history in art-work and records.

It wasn't just Wrenn history that was destroyed, much of it was original Hornby Dublo material that they had aquired. It's a pity your missus didn't rush into the flames and rescue some of those 'Winsford Wagons', Beefsteak, sounds like they could be worth a few quid.

[rob237 89]

What happened to your set then Rob...

Can't really recall...we are talking more than 50 years back!

Sure you appreciate that your listed collection is worth a fortune! Is it 2 or 3 rail?

A friend sold his rather weary Wrenn WC last year for £375...amazing.

This same friend once bought an unseen 'job lot' tea chest full of Railwayana for £50...in the lower half was genuine nameplate and smoke box number plate from 'Jubilee' Burma. Currently valued at £10K+!

Cheers

Robt P.

[Beefsteak 305]

My information is that the major Dapol fire was at Northwich, not Winsford...

"...In 1994, while the company was moving to its previous location at Llangollen in North Wales, a huge fire destroyed the old site at Northwich near Manchester, and large quantities of products and historical Wrenn material were destroyed"

Cheers

Robt P.

I wouldn't worry too much Rob , anybody who can mistake Northwich for being "Near Manchester" (30 miles) can also mistake Winsford for Northwich (5 miles !!!!)