Dark Angel
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Posts posted by Dark Angel
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Cliff Ton ... Thank you for your response.
I do have a query: I seem to have got some hearts and arrows, I assume the hearts are people liking what I have written.
Do the arrows indicate that it's my round for the cider?
Sorry, as I think this is maybe in the wrong place.
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All the pictures seem to have either disappeared or are blurred.
Remember talking my parents into travelling via Grantham for our holidays on the South coast. I wanted to be pulled by a nice green shiny Pacific locomotive.
On this occasion, St Simon glides into the platform, pleased my plan is working we board the train.
Shock! Horror! Having just settled into our seats, St Simon glides past light engine having been detached from our train.
Worse was about to happen: a brand new shiny diesel (D 1502) backs onto our train.
"Can we get off and wait for the next one? " says I.
That suggestion didn't go down too well, and we stayed on board.
I realised that it would soon be goodnight to these marvellous elegant beasts, and disillusionment set in.
A couple of years before, I had again eagerly awaited the arrival of one of these wonderful behemoths, only to be disappointed when the blue Deltic turned up. I must have been the only one disappointed at this development, as all the trainspotters were wild with excitement.
Not I. It was like waking up Christmas morning expecting a nice shiny new bicycle, only to be confronted with a trumpet!
The writing being on the wall for these dinasaurs as the rot took hold and they were allowed to deteriorate, before disappearing to that train set in the sky.
I didn't need to stand on a cold platform to watch the Lincoln mail train. I sat on my bed in a warm bedroom to watch it.
until the final throw of the dice, the loco was always an Eastern region one, often a named B1. Geoffrey Gibbs seemed to haul it more than most. It always seemed to be kept in fairly good condition at the time.
The final days before diesels took over, black 5's had a go.
As modernity took over, train spotting lost its allure. Couldn't get excited watching boxes on wheels.
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Apparently, an A4 came close to hauling this train.
A Colwick fitter told me that 'Woodcock' failed on the East Coast main line, Grantham couldn't effect a repair, so it was sent to Colwick.
Having had repairs carried out it was sent out on a couple of overnight parcel workings.
Someone decided to work it North on an overnight parcels, then roster it to work the following mornings up Master Cutler.
However, in an age when mobile phones and the Internet were but a pipe dream, word quickly spread that this event was to take place.
The plug was pulled on this escapade, the official reasoning being recorded as the locomotive had an issue with its vacuum brake.
What could have been, never was.
I have a photograph of Galtee More at Nottingham Victoria on The Master Cutler. Had it framed on my bedroom wall as a nipper.
It was the first A3 I saw, but have no recollection of it on Gods Chosen Railway.
The last ones having been transferred back to the East Coast in August 1957.
20 A3's were allocated to the G.C. Between Decenber 1948 and August 1957.
Only two were there the whole time: Galtee More and Enterprise. The latter spent most of its time at Neasden.
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DJ360...thank you for transcribing the newspaper article re the inquest of the young lad. Whilst I was referring to the same incident, the article I read contained more information. Am obviously unable to remember verbatim what was in the paper but I do know there were a few unknowns. Not being a medical person, maybe someone on here can give guidance on this: I have no knowledge of how thorough an autopsy would have been in 1909, but I did wonder of the possibility that the lad was already dead when the train ran over him. He was found lying on his back, with one witness saying he looked as if he was asleep. I may be wrong on this but if he was already dead before the train had contact with him, then his blood would have seeped out of his body, whereas it would have gushed out if his heart had still been pumping. I may have miss understood the comment about blood on the rail, but I took it to mean there was a lack of blood on the rail body, not the rail head, which would have been cleaned by subsequent trains running over it.
I am not suggesting foul play, but the possibility he had a congenital heart condition which caused him to collapse where he did.
If I remember correctly, the body was in good order, ie not being catapulted into that position by another train. This leaves two alternatives: he either laid down deliberately or collapsed/fell into that position.
A police officer also gave evidence that despite exhaustive enquiries, they could neither trace the person he was meant to be meeting that night or anyone who knew of him. Nor could they trace anyone having seen him on that fateful night.
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Alpha....as I wrongly believed the colliery line to be under Western Boulevard, I didn't look at Google or any other modern maps. You are right: knowing what to look for, the former route can be traced all the way to Wollaton Road. It actually ran to the rear of the houses on Marchwood Close.
Cliff Ton..... Thank you for your encouraging comments.
Dj360.....reading page 1 of this thread, I came across a comment by you: "reading pernicious literature." A candle flame flickered in the recess of my memory. Some years ago I read an account about a death on the railway in 1909 at Radford. The railways didn't recognise suicides and trespass as railway accidents, consequently to glean any information it is usually down to reading newspaper reports of the coroners inquest.
Am unable to access the link DavidW posted, so I am not sure if this is the same incident.
The lad was a seventeen year old employed as a chemists assistant. His body was found South of Bobbers Mill crossing. The driver of an early morning down parcels out of Nottingham alerted the signalman at Bobbers Mill of a body on the line. My recollection is that both driver and signalman went to check out the sighting. It intrigued me as there seemed more questions than answers.
Comments on this thread seem to reflect the incident to have happened on the crossing, whereas the report I read had the incident happening in the vicinity of Radford sidings. They may be two different incidents, but your great grandfather did give evidence at this inquiry.
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Cliff Ton.....DJ360.....This is the first time I have been on a site like this. I apologise if my posting etiquette isn't quite right, as I don't really know what I am doing.
I came across DJ360's photograph by accident whilst looking for something else. Somewhere in the depths of my brain a candle lit in a far distant corner, an area unused for a while.
Think I know where that is.
Looking at the photograph, I initially thought I recognised the location. To the right of the signal box there is a straight pale line which I took to be the colliery line.
Cliff Ton, this is where I need to apologise: you gave me a massive clue which I didn't pick up.
First mistake: having identified the location, I failed to identify the signal box correctly.
Second mistake: looking at old maps showing the signal box West of the colliery line, my brain locked this signal box into this location and I dismissed the pale line on the photograph and of used on the fencing!
Third mistake: Cliff Ton gave me a massive clue when he stated that the signal box was moved sometime between 1900 and 1910. This clue sailed over my head! The signal box wasn't moved. It was replaced by a new one. This explains why it moved East of the colliery line: the new one had to be built before the old one was decommissioned.
I completely missed the plot. I should have realised the signal box in the photograph was a turn of the century one, not one from the 1870's. This type of signal box replaced older, smaller signal boxes throughout this period.
Cliff Ton couldn't have given me a better clue. Sadly it missed the target.
Fourth mistake: at least I had a bit of help with this one, as I wrongly believed Western Boulevard was built over the colliery line, this information being gleaned from reading two separate articles relating to the road being built. Quite clearly this was not the case.
Cliff Ton produces an aerial photograph of the new bridge showing the signal box to the East of it.
This is where he hits me at the back of the head with a piece of wood.
A refulgent light surrounds me and I realise my stupidity. Actually, I've always known this, but Cliff Ton highlighted it. This is when I cotton on as to what has transpired with this signal box. Also, the realisation that the colliery line is not under the new road, but quite clearly still there.
I should have spotted this looking at the maps and seeing where the new road joined Wollaton Road.
On a modern map, Marchwood Close appears to be built on the colliery line, with the school being built where Wharf Cottages stood.
Returning to the aerial photograph, you can see the line of the spur to Newcastle Sidings as a faint line curved below trees or shrubs to the east of the bridge.
I cannot believe I made such a school boy error: looking at a photograph of a signal box built after the map was printed and not realising.
Am really annoyed with myself.
Addendum: Alpha weighs in with a cracking photograph; clearly showing the colliery line still in place alongside the signal box.
As the saying goes: close, but no cigar!
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Cliff Ton, is there any possibility your map could be marked incorrectly?
Looking at the photograph there is a fence running parallel to the end of the signal box which I took to be the boundary fencing for the colliery line, in which case the signal box has to be West of the line. The blunt end of the box is up to this boundary, thus enabling the signalman good visual access to the colliery line.
Whilst signal boxes were moved, I cannot see any logical reason for this to happen here.
Sadly, I cannot find any information as to when this line ceased to be used. It is shown intact on the 1899 map.
Although Thomas North built 28 miles of private railway line, for some inexplicable reason this crossing and the wharf were sometimes known as Seely's crossing and wharf. Sir Charles Seely and his son acquired Newcastle and other pits in 1875. As North built the entire system why was it not named after him? Maybe there is a bit of history I am missing? Officially, the wharf was Babbington Wharf and the signal box Babbington Crossing, erected to work Newcastle Sidings. There being another sidings with the Babbington name.
Newcastle colliery ceased production in 1928. Coincidence the whole area was about to be developed?
However, I have digressed enough.
if your map is correct, then I am wrong.
It would have been a short bike ride to work using footpaths.
I tried to post this 24 hours ago without success. Kept going around in circles. Got fed up looking at photos with traffic lights and zebra crossings on them. Keeps telling me my e mail address belongs to someone else.
Here we go again! Same as last night!
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A map dated 1899 shows the signal box and wharf where I thought they were. Am quietly confident I have the right location.
The fact this signal box disappeared under Tarmac ninety years ago doesn't help.
Actually, it didn't ,the Midland Railway would have dismantled it and used the components elsewhere. I know by 1927, it would have been the L.M.S.however the Midland mentality would have prevailed.
Its rural location doesn't help either as there are no landmarks to gauge it's whereabouts.
I know it is difficult to try and visualise a scene that is out of living memory.
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I thought the signal box was situated on the other side of the colliery line, not as shown on Cliff Tons map.
It's not easy, as you have to forget the modernity of the present and try and picture what it would have been.
The Radford to Trowell line was constructed circa 1875. It is quite likely the wharf ceased to be used in any capacity shortly after. With Newcastle sidings up and running, the coal wagons would have been transferred via the spur. If you look at the photograph, I think the spur runs where the trees are to the right of the signal box.
Pianoman is correct, the wharf is not shown on that map segment.Maybe my brain cells are malfunctioning, but I am sure the loading of the barges was carried out South of Wollaton Road, but there was a siding adjacent to the colliery line North of Wollaton Road.
I thought I was helping DJ360, however, I seem to have confused him.
Will have to try and do some research, am now starting to have doubts.
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The signal box in the photograph is a Midland Railway design.
I think it is Babbington Crossing.
By taking the line to Trowell from Radford Junction, you would have crossed a colliery line that carried coal to a wharf on Nottingham Canal, where it was loaded onto barges.
Adjacent to this line stood a signal box on the right as you headed towards Trowell.
I think this is the signal box in the photograph, which would have been taken shortly before closure of the box.
As the sun is casting a shadow on the signal box from the telegraph pole, if I am right about the location, then it looks as if the photograph was taken early morning.
One signalman taking a photograph of his colleague at shift changeover?
A memento of their time together before their departures to another location?
This rural setting would quickly disappear.
Western Boulevard being built on the old colliery track bed with the signal box standing somewhere under the Northern end of the bridge.
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Views from St Mary's in the Lace Market
in Images of Nottingham
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Sadly, if it wasn't for your captions I wouldn't know what I was looking at.
I don't recognise Nottingham anymore.
Haven't set foot in the place for 15/18 years.
Over time, successive 'I'm in charge merchants' have systematically ripped the heart and soul out of what was once a great place.
Nottingham has always had strong historical connections: all three English civil wars kicked off in Nottingham. We can rival York for the Vikings. Isabella - Mortimer - Edward II plus Edward III. King John. How many Nottingham children are taught any of this?
Mathilda and Stephen had a tiff. Mathilda stayed in Nottingham Castle. One of Stephens men tried to take the castle, failed, sacked Nottingham. Burnt down the churches with all those seeking refuge still inside. This being the fate of the first St Mary's.
Did you take any photographs of the stained glass windows?