Dark Angel
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Posts posted by Dark Angel
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STANLEY1706 posted on 20th February 2011:- as a child I lived in Devonshire Cottages, these were on the right as you went down Dunstan Street, the last time I looked it was a car park.
Thinking about the house numbering on the census form, if they were numbered consecutively, it's possible I have actually been in the house your ancestors lived in. It was either the third or forth on the left as you look from Dunstan Street.
Will really need to look at the rest of the census form to work it out. Actually, it doesn't help solve this riddle. Going off at a tangent springs to mind. Totally superfluous to the original question.
I cannot scratch this itch, and I don't know why.
Again unrelated, have found a reference to Wainmans Terrace in 1905.
Somewhere or someone has an answer.
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IAN123:- Thanks for message about Fly, at least he's O.K.
Unable to pm you.
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Someone has used the double m spelling of Wainman when they uploaded this family onto the Internet.
If you look at Cliff Tons map:- the block from right of the arrow to Dennis Street contains the Co op buildings. The large area from the middle to Dennis Street were the original complex.
On the old map, if you look at the boundary line for Dennis Street and Dunstan Street, mentally draw that line to Victoria Road, between that line and the left boundary for the Co op was the position of the building, including the long building at the rear and the smaller one at right angles to it.
It looks as if Wainmans Terrace had been mapped out but not necessarily built. This might explain why they were built at odds with the rest of Netherfield, with the streets following the original enclosure boundaries. This is only supposition on my part. The proof is hiding somewhere.
I thought Mary Selina Curzon owned those strips from the boundary of St Georges Church, although there were some smaller landowners further to the sidings. Was Wainman one of these? Was he a builder who purchased the land? Did he exist? As yet I can find no trace of him.
Another possibility is that Wainmans Terrace wasn't an official name, but one conjured up by the local population. However that doesn't explain houses being offered for rent in that street. Appearing on census forms would also suggest its legality.
There was another square area the same size as Wainmans Terrace marked out beyond it.
Could this have been down to ad hoc building, or was there another street plan before the one we see now?
There were a lot of sanitary issues in the early days, eventually the council got tough with the builders and landowners to correct this.
I am certain that is the right location for Wainmans Terrace/Devonshire Cottages.
They weren't averse to changing street names in this locality:- Victoria Road started life as Moor Lane, before becoming Netherfield Lane. Station Road started out as Brooke Street, before becoming Urban Road. Meadow Road was formally Toll Bar Lane ( or Toll Lane )
Have just read through what I have written, what waffle, I hope you get the gist.
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Any one know what's happened to Fly? Not posted since November. Hope he's alright.
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Just seen the census page. I read that as Emily Dring residing at 3 Wainmans Terrace, not Dunstan Street.
The enumerator has written do do( ditto) instead of writing the address each time.
He's also spelt it Waimmans.
Still haven't come across it which ever is the correct spelling.
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Had a few problems posting this morning. The gaps between the lines weren't by design. Some of what I tried to post didn't show.
including the line:- if I'm wrong, a triple malt will be heading in your direction.
To re iterate, Wainman Terrace/Devonshire Cottages are the same buildings. Take Dennis Street out of the equation. Like TBI, I have seen an old map, date unknown, this showed one building located in the middle of the present ex Co op buildings, it had buildings extended to Wainmans Terrace (although it wasn't marked up as such.) in fact the streets were laid out, without many buildings.
Until TSB posted I hadn't come across this name. I can't remember actually seeing this name on any map I have seen.
TBI is correct, they were small. they seem to predate Dunstan Street, probably built early/mid 1880's. I'm sure the Co op buildings were built mid 1880's.
It seems a small house for so many people, however Emily had been widowed with a young baby, maybe the sanitation was slightly better than Godfrey Street.
Don't apologise for getting involved TBI, all input is welcome.
Between us I'm sure we'll get to the bottom of it, there is an answer, just needs one of us to locate it.
Had considered your suggestion about it referencing a wagon driver, although a wain(e) was normally considered to be a hay wagon.
You could be right however.
Returning to Dennis Street, houses were only built one side as the church had purchased the land opposite. These houses also predate Dunstan Street.
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Cliff Ton:- Wainmans Terrace/Devonshire Cottages are the same buildings. They pre-date Dunstan Street slightly.
TSB has given me an itch I can't scratch. Who was Wainman and why were they built in that position
. Netherfield was built piecemeal by various builders as bits of land were sold. (Won't go into an essay on this subject)
. Will try and come back later, seem to be having a few issues at the moment.
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From what I can ascertain they lived at 3 Wainmans Terrace.
They could have moved when she remarried in 1902.
It was Wainmans Terrace in 1902 as a property was advertised at 3 shillings 9 pence rental. (More expensive than Carlton)
. John Woolston Dring, an older sibling was a coalman.
The area you thought may have been the location isn't big enough, it's the back area to the shops that were there before Graham Read took over the entire row.
When Cliff Ton mentioned Devonshire Cottages, that lit a light bulb.
There was a coalman named Dring in the 50's/60's. Had a green Bedford flat bed if my memory is intact.
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Quietly confident I,m right, after some more thought.
Looking at Google (oh dear) life moves on!
Where's Loppy when you need him?
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If you look at Ciff Ton's map, you will see 14 dwellings on the opposite side of the road at 90 degrees to Dunstan Street.
Think this is what you are looking for.
Seem to remember there was no road only a path leading to their fronts. Have this vague recollection of them.
However, I am going from memory, which can sometimes lead to a bum steer.
It wasn't unusual for a census to record a side road before recording the main one.
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Is this who you are looking for?
Dring family:- Emily Dring 47 widow born Sutton Cambridgeshire.
Husband Clark Dring died 1897 aged 53.
Harry 19 married to Polly 19 ( born Alford Lincolnshire )
. Kate 17, Charles 14, Frederick 11, Horace 7, Walter 4.
All living Wainmans Terrace 1901 census.
1911 census has them at 19 Main Road, Carlton.
She's now Emily Clayton widow.
Living with her are Charles 23, Horace 17, Walter 14
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Walter married Lillian Ada Wealthall 1914.
He died 9-4-1917 age 21 private 26862 Wiltshire Regiment 2nd Bn his widow was living at 65 Foxhill Road.
This information comes from a World War 1 casualties site.
. In the 1950's 1960's a coal man named Dring operated in and around Netherfield.
Emily remarried in 1902 but he didn't make the 1911 census.
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He's about to turn left into the bus station. (Whilst avoiding the twerp with the camera.)
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Yes, the P2's had a few issues, problems with the leading bogie led to serious faults occurring with their driving wheels, bearings running hot and even some cracks in the axles. I am not aware of any derailments occurring with this class although that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Only six loco's were built to work expresses between Edinburgh and Inverness, whilst powerful they lacked top speed. The V2 had the same leading bogie, these however were modified after a couple of derailments. Whether it was because they were seen as a non standard locomotive, they weren't modified. Edward Thompson decided to rebuild them as 4-6-2 locomotives.
Am not aware of any problems with bogies fitted to A4's, though that isn't to say an odd loco didn't have issues when overdue works repairs. If the loco was bouncing around like you say, bet the fireman threw his shovel out the pram when they reached their destination.
However, there was a locomotive rebuilt from Gresley's hush-hush experimental loco. Externally it resembled an A4. From a distance it would have been difficult not to think otherwise, it had a 4-6-4 wheel arrangement and never carried a name. This loco did have an issue with its leading bogie, causing a derailment around Peterborough area. This was earlier, mid 50's and the loco was repaired.
This could be coincidental, but this locomotive was withdrawn in 1959 as it required works attention. Wonder if it's front bogie problem had resurfaced? If my memory isn't playing tricks, I think the rear bogie was actually two single axle bogies, and not one with two axles.
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Solario was the first to be withdrawn due to a cracked mainframe. Late 1959. The cull didn't start until 1961. However, Prince Palatine was the last to be withdrawn, January 1966. Ending her days in Scotland with a few others.
Quite a few A 3's were fitted with A4 boilers, wonder if someone forgot to reduce the boiler pressure?
Pure speculation on my part.
It seems the loss of A 4's from Grantham coincided with A3's transferred from the G.C. arriving.
Post war, the railway companies were in a mess, thanks to the war effort and no investment, hence nationalisation, the start of a downward spiral. More later when I have a bit more time.
Wrong place, but anyone know what's happened to Fly? Not posted since last November. Is he O.K?
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Should have thought of that possibility, I believe that's how Woodcock returned home. Am sure most of the G.C.'s A3 's were transferred to Grantham. The last six certainly were, ironically these were apparently all good performers. Am too young to remember any of them working on the G.C. Have seen about 4/5 A3's on Colwick. I think the last time was one standing behind Locomotive Terrace, in steam, unfortunately I was on the footbridge which allowed people to cross the lines leading into the L.N.W. Shed. The loco had its tender facing me and was too far away anyway. Somewhat annoying at the time. Bit of a pattern here, me being unable to identify loco's.
Unfortunately I never saw an A3 in blue livery, think the last one was Solario, (at least of those on the G.C.) Did see an A4 in blue, which am sure was Golden Eagle, to be honest, I actually preferred the blue livery.
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Aspley park:. No need to apologise. I wasn't having a go at you, rather encouraging you to jog my memory with your records.
Being more to do with any future conversations. If your records contradict my memory, I'm happy for you to put me right.
Your comments about Dominion of Canada are interesting, as when Flying Scotsman was allocated to Leicester she also had a reputation of being a poor performer for that very same reason. From what I can gather, the A3's were well liked by G.C. Train crews.
August 1957 saw the last ones returned to the East Coast, as the assassins took over in January 1958.
A possible reason for her visit to Colwick that night, may have been to take parts for a Kings Cross/Grantham locomotive under maintenance. A normal way would have been to send parts on an over night freight, but if the locomotive under repair was urgently required, a light engine running direct to Colwick would have been quicker.
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Sadly Oztalgian, they are becoming fading memories. Even sadder is the fact so few LNER (and its amalgamated companies) locomotives made it into preservation. Thank goodness for Alan Pegler, or this iconic class would have disappeared into the annals of history. Nice photograph.
Aspley park: Unfortunately all my old records and notes were sadly destroyed many years ago. Nowadays I have to rely solely on memory, please make allowances if my memory doesn't tally with your records.
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Not such a tardy reply this time Aspley park. I was quite young at the time and apart from seeing the A4, I can only recollect the smell and steam circulating about. Steam sheds had that specific aroma. I did however see another A4 at Colwick: returning home from a holiday, I remember seeing another A4 near Rectory Junction signal box, it was night time and I couldn't see its number or name. It was on its own and in steam. As it had a bell on the front, I would think it was Dominion of Canada, which at the time was a Grantham based locomotive, if my memory is holding out. Have often wondered why it would have been in that vicinity on that occasion. Again I was quite young, however, I had started taking numbers although am not sure if I qualified as a train spotter.
Remember seeing Mallard when Colwick had an open day.
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Apologies for a tardy reply, have only just found your post Aspley park.
You may not see this reply as you only posted once.
In the event that you may return I give you the following: knee high to a grasshopper I was taken into Colwick loco shed, possibly 1957,however not completely sure of year. I remember seeing a engine unlike any others I'd seen. A big green shiny one with a name.
Have always thought it was Woodcock I saw on this occasion, whether I read the name or was told, I can't remember.
Am sure the engine I saw had its connecting rods removed. Often tried to find out why it had been there.
One reason I was given: it had run a hot centre bearing and Grantham had sent it to Colwick. This is only supposition as the people I asked only had vague recollections. Colwick had a wheel lathe, another possible cause for it being there being tyre reprofiling.
In all honesty I don't know why it was on shed at this time. Maybe you have information.
An alternative scenario could be that I have remembered the wrong engine. It was however, definitely an A4.
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Wonder how many others are having problems accessing and moving around Nottstalgia?
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loppylugs: I feel your pain, pleased it's not just me, hope someone can help you.
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Aide Memoire to self: always read what I have typed before pressing send.
Carnie: apologies for giving you a bum steer, the light you saw was Venus, at the moment at the height of it's eight year cycle. I have no idea why I typed Uranus. A definite short circuit somewhere in my wiring.
I did read an article a few days ago about Uranus, but who knows? I don't.
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Seems to be tickety boo at the moment, my gremlins are having a night off.
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Carnie:. Are you looking in roughly the direction of the setting sun? If so I think you are looking at Uranus.
Dunstan Street Netherfield
in Kat's Carlton, Mapperley, Arnold & Sherwood Forum
Posted
Seems this forum has been here before:-
https://nottstalgia.com/forums/topic/12429-netherfield-1911/
TBI:- nice little nugget you've found. If these end houses were numbered 12 & 14 Dunstan Street, then it looks likely they were contemporary with other construction around them and not before as I was beginning to think. Unless they were renumbered later to fit in with surrounding buildings. Explains why there is no 1 & 2 on the census form. Am sure their front doors were in line with the others and not on Dunstan Street.
Cliff Ton:- can't be too specific at the moment, will have to return to item later. It related to a coroners inquest at the Methodist Church.
it was an abbreviated newspaper clip, someone lived on Wainmans Terrace, but I don't know if it was the deceased or a witness. As the names didn't relate to the original question I flipped past, (only to regret it). Had been rummaging for a long time, getting nowhere, with brain obviously not fully engaged as it's the type of tangential meandering I would normally take.