DJ360

I can see that. I forget the name of the Uniform Supplier in Friar Lane. They supplied the best quality jackets etc, but jackets could also be had from the co-op, for less. They soon faded and became quite obvious but nobody I know looked down on the wearers. I don't recall snobbery of any sort during my time at HP. As we emerged onto Gainsford Crs. and some of the Padstow lot emerged opposite, there was occasional banter, but nothing serious. They decided to call us 'Cads'. I don't know if they knew what it meant.

I was always in a world of my own back then and didn't understand the 'machinations', but my pal Nigel , from the grocer's round the corner, was exceptionally bright. He went through some sort of assessment for Nottm High School.. for a scholarship as I understood it. Another lad, who always struck me as a bit dim, also went through the same process and was offered a place. I don't suppose the fact that his dad was an Inspector of Police, whilst Nigel's dad was a grocer..had the slightest influence on the outcome... Eitherway.. Nige went to HP and then on to be a Dr of Consumer Psycholo

Obviously I don't know the demands made by Mundella, but HP requirements were 'Do-able'. -Approved jacket and tie, plus cap until yr 3. The rest was pretty much standard across all secondaries., such as grey or black trousers and 'proper' shoes. Grey or White shirts. 'Loud' socks were discouraged, but not a hanging offence. The school scarf was optional, my Grandma bought me one for Christmas... A white cotton apron for science and woodwork/metalwork. Most parents made them. Two Rugby shirts. One in Blue and the other in house colours. Blue Rugby short

Yes, it all sounds very priveleged when you put it that way, but it was rather less than 'plain sailing'. Yes, I went to a very good Grammar School because I met the criteria of the time and my parents (and wider family) contributed to equipping me with all of the 'extras' required. I was a moderately successful student, but messed up totally after leaving, partly due to my own obstinacy/bad judgement, but also due to almost non existent career guidance. I didn't go to Uni until 16 years later and only then because it was the only way I could see to get back into stable, wort

You continue to miss the gigantic Elephant in the Room. Even if, as is doubtful.. there is some educational equivalence between the two, Independent Schools are only accessible to those who can afford to pay for the privelege, Grammar Schools were open to those who met the criteria of the time, FOR FREE. It's arguable that the 11+ system created 'winners and losers'. It is a simple fact, that the existence of fee paying Independents allows a 'win' to be purchased by those who can afford to do so.

Well of course Kev, you are correct in saying that words change in meaning and usage over time. Some like those you quote, change slowly and sort of permanently. Others come and go almost by the week, such as the way youngsters communicate almost by a code, in which, for e.g., 'sick' meant ' excellent' and 'bad, meant 'cool, or 'good' etc.. I still maintain that 'Woke' is a special case, because the word had a specific meaning from its origin in 1930s US black culture. It meant 'alert to injustice'. It was revived and became much more widely known after the high profile racist m

Which raises a couple of interesting issues. Why Kirkby and not some other adjacent area? Also, If I recall correctly, that utter Bastion of Democracy, Boris Johnson, attacked the electoral commission and removed its independence. I don't have time to further research that at the moment..but 'just saying'..

I wouldn't use Woke. It's too broad and ill-defined and as I say is a convenient term for the political right to use to whip up populist rage against anything and everything which doesn't suit their agenda. In that sense its misappropriation is both dishonest AND dangerous. I've no doubt that there will be people out there who are happy to describe anyone who opposes Lee Anderson's recent inflammatory comments as 'woke'. In the specific example you quoted, surrounding the use of an obsolete word, in an obsolete film, I would use the term 'historical revisionist' to describe the motivatio

And so were/are 'Independent' schools.. you really can't deflect all criticism of Independents by attacking Grammars.

Not sure there are many real patterns. Some people blame their every problem on not passing the 11+ and harbour a deep resentment, without any real understanding of what they would have been required to do. Others hated every minute of Grammar School. There seems to be a huge amount of affection for Padstow Secondary School, which my brother and sister both went to. My late Sister, bless her, was never academic, but neither was she bothered by that. My Brother, on the other hand often relates how difficult it was to be heard through the rabble and get help from teachers if struggling wit

HP was divided into 4 'streams'. Nothing to do with 11+ results as I recall, because we were all just taught the same stuff in Yrs 7,8 and 9. Allocation to one of the 4 'streams' was based on performance in years 7, 8 and 9...a.k.a. First Second and Third Form. The formal GCE courses did not start until 4th year and your range of subjects was mostly determined by your 'stream'. 'Modern A'. The top lot, they did English Language and Lit, three sciences, Latin plus one other other Modern Language, History OR Geography and Maths. 9 Subjects.. if memory serves. 'Science A' All

In a very real sense, nobody 'passed' or 'failed' the 11 plus. It was a selection process, not an exam. And it also wasn't for life, unless people just rolled over and accepted their 'fate'. There are numerous examples of people who did as well or better, both financially and educationally, after having missed a Grammar School place. I fully agree that it was a pretty brutal selection process and there are multiple criticisms which can and have been levelled at the process, but it was arguably better than what went before, since, as I understand it, access to Grammar School type ed

How? It isn't illegal to pay for an 'exclusive' education, but you argued that attending Grammar Schools via selection on ability smacked of 'pulling the ladder up', and yet somehow you appear to be saying that having the means to buy a 'better' education doesn't. And anyway, my issue is with Charitable Status for 'independent' (I.E. Fee Charging) schools.

Here's a post from earlier I typed but neglected to press 'submit'. I withdraw the word 'merit' and replace it with 'ability'. Is that less 'elitist'? And yet being wealthier does? I didn't say that. They were proud, but they also very firmly reminded me of just how much even this 'free' Grammar School education was going to cost for stuff like uniforms etc., and expected me to act accordingly. I was immensely proud not only to go to the school, but of the school itself.

It's actually 'One Word' Inspection Reports I dislike as they are meant to convey an impression to all and sundry. The 11+ was a selection process. A different method with a different purpose. I don't know how the 11+ was assessed, but I do know that there were a number of elements to it. and it was used to select enough students to fill the available Grammar School places, as well as, I assume, Technical School places.It wasn't perfect, but what is?

I withdraw the word 'merit' and replace it with 'ability'. Is that less 'elitist'? And yet being wealthier does? I didn't say that. They were proud, but they also very firmly reminded me of just how much even this 'free' Grammar School education was going to cost for stuff like uniforms etc., and expected me to act accordingly. I was immensely proud not only to go to the school, but of the school itself.

You miss my point entirely. It is not about 'nanny states', or Govt. 'micro management'. It is about haveing effective regulation. It is Tory 'deregulation' and the privatisation of regulation to dispense with the myth of 'red tape', which brought us to this pass. Had the Tories not deliberately deregulated then those responsible would be much more easily brought to book and it's probable Grenfell would not have happened anyway. Deregulation of everything from Construction, to Health, to Public Utilities and Transport have been an unmitigated disaster. You know this.

That sort of sophistry almost makes the parents themselves sound charitable when you and I both know that people choose private education because of the perceived benefits to their child(ren), not out of altruism. Not ignored, just overlooked. (I have a backlog of righteousness to dispense... ) Yes it's true that Grammar Schools provided an arguably 'better' education to their students, who, in turn, benefitted by improved access to some post school opportunities. But only because their pupils had already proven their capability in a test open to all. It's equally a

Yes, the Guardian has a Centre Left stance, which is very far from being 'extreme left' or even 'far left'. You are correct about the international picture. What is internationally acknowledged is that the Guardian is the 'most trusted' UK paper. From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardian Also from Wiki 'In 2007, the newspaper was ranked first in a study on transparency that analysed 25 mainstream English-language media vehicles, which was conducted by the International Center for Media and the Public Agenda of the University of Marylan

You misread me entirely. Barring accidents, my hi-fi system is now at a standard which I'm happy with, so that barring any catastrophic failure, I'm not looking to upgrade or replace anything. I was at one point sorely tempted by the latest 2x 12" vinyl disc repressing/mastering of Joni Mitchell's seminal 'Blue' album at a mere £150, but I decided that my original 1970 copy, my later Reprise re-press and my 2 CD copies are enough. In any case, though in my view musically unimpeachable, Blue always had some recording issues, which I doubt can be fixed. They don't spoil my enjoyment of the

He accused Khan of being 'controlled' by Islamists and he refuses to withdraw the comment. Where is his evidence? How about if I accused some politician or political entity of being 'controlled by Jews, or Zionists?' How long would it be before everybody rounded on me? Anderson has no place in civilised society, much less in Parliament. He should be prosecuted for inciting religious hatred.

I'm disappointed that you are perpetuating the misuse of the term Woke. There is no coherent 'woke' conspiracy. Woke is now degraded to a term which is used to belittle and undermine any and all opposition to the status quo. I might agree with you over Mary Poppins, but I'm not playing the 'Woke' 'culture wars' game.

Not at all. The whole thing is a result of long term and determined de-regulation, including the privatisation of Regulatory bodies, which ALL result from Thatcherite and NeoCon obsession with establishing a business free for all. You dismissed Peter Apps before, can you dismiss this as easily? http://regulation.org.uk/library/2021-peter_apps-grenfell_deregulation_timeline.pdf And yes, you can probably argue that Labour should have reversed some of this, but the fact remains that Deregulation and Privatisation are Tory policies and mantras and they must bear responsibil

The size of the school is irrelevant. I would have no objection to a rebate in principle if it could be accurately worked out, which I seriously doubt because that would involve Govt. in some pretty embarrassing number crunching and revelations. The issue of 'Charitable Status' is one of principle. You are obliged by law to ensure that your child is educated to age 16. (Let's leave the post 16 rules aside for now.) You have the basic choice of State Education, Home Schooling, or Independent, fee paying education. If you choose the latter, you are effectively purchasing educa

I'm a bit busy at present.. getting sorted for a drive to Bristol tomorrow for the Bristol Hi Fi Show. Early night called for too. I'll be back Sunday and respond then.