Ashley 288 Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 I must admit I have not been a fan of England for some years, ever since I heard a team announced and thought "Who'es he?" "Never heard of him either" etc, ok so maybe exaggerated but can you remember when the England team was full of household names? week in week out 1st division later Premiership top players in key positions, England managers had a choice of over 400 Englishmen playing top class games every week, true there were good and bad amongst those! but what do we get nowadays? virtually all the key players in the top English teams unable to play for England. I once explored this theory with some die hard football fans and their belief was on the contrary, the influx of the foreign players had brought out the best in the English ones? but Green Baines Upson Barry C Cole as world cup stars? might be wrong but quarter finals at best I reckon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beefsteak 305 Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 I've said it before and I'll say it again, the English game has been ruined by the money from Sky Sports, no 'little'English clubs can afford to bring players through their youth schemes any more, as no Premier clubs are buying them. The 'Big boys' now go out and buy a seasomed pro from abroad with their riches, rather than look down the leagues and take a chance on a 'newbie' as they used to, forcing so many 'minnows' out of business , (Classic example, Chester City , who (Along with Crewe Alexandria) were great providers for Liverpool / Everton et al,) It'll never be sorted until FIFA put a limit on 'overseas' players as in Cricket, there are games played now where the two teams facing each other can have 20+ nationalities between them , none of them English!!! and no, that's not being racist, that's stating a fact!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Limey 242 Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Perhaps it's time to look at the American baseball model where every team owns one or two "minor league" teams. They use the minor team as a training and prep area, as well as a place for a poorly performing major leaguer to go to get "back in the game". The minor team owned by the Detroit Tigers are the Toledo "Mud Hens" of M.A.S.H. (Klinger) fame! They do a similar thing in the NHL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beefsteak 305 Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 I suppose the problem there would be a touch of nepotism should you draw one of your "buddy clubs" in the F.A. or League cup and get accused of letting them win !! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
firbeck 860 Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 The FA have only themselves to blame, they've allowed it to happen, how could they possibly think it is of benefit to the country and international team, who are now scraping around to find replacements for the injured and sinned against. Remember 1966, how many foreign players were playing in the first division then, I think there were none. Just think about it, Joe Baker never made the squad, Jimmy Greaves didn't get to play in the final, who do we have now in their position, Peter Crouch, it doesn't bare thinking about. I see these Premiership teams in action, Oggygoocoo, Slimov, Nappyopoulous, Ying Tong, they mean nothing to me, once apon a time I could probably name all the team players in the first division, nowdays zilch, not good is it. Quarter finals Ashley, cloud cuckoo land, pick the Notts players, at least, they're English and they'll be able to boot the ball in the air and bring about a new dimension to World Cup play, it might surprise a few teams more than England will, attempting to win the World Cup with first team reserves. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mick2me 3,033 Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
firbeck 860 Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Having watched some of the Barcelona match and Messi in particular last night, we may as well not even bother going to South Africa, how can England match any of that. I doubt whether they even have the skills to throw themselves to the floor having been tackled, like the Stuttgart players could, a tap on the ankle and out came the convincing 'holding the face in agony' routine, perhaps a few acting lessons from Kenneth Brannagh might help the cause. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Limey 242 Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I watched "The Damned United" on the plane coming home yesterday - not sure how close it is to the facts, but it was pretty interesting. It seems to me that much of the demise of British football can be laid squarely at Don Revie's feet having taken out the "gentleman" and replaced them with thugs (Bremner comes to mind), he then did his best to make money from the England "badge" rather than promote the team! The caption at the end of the film kinda sums it all up: "Brian Clough - the best manager England never had" No matter your feelings about Cloughie, you have to admit it would have been interesting to see him as the England manager! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley 288 Posted March 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Yes I saw Barcelona last night, never seen anyone as good as that! and whilst lots of "foreigners" in that team most have come up through the ranks and not bought in when stars. Was interested to hear a Brazilian? player has become german? can't we offer some of Chelsea team etc a similar deal, maybe chuck in a council house? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
firbeck 860 Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 It seems to me that much of the demise of British football can be laid squarely at Don Revie's feet having taken out the "gentleman" and replaced them with thugs (Bremner comes to mind), Bremner was a pussy cat compared to Bobby Collins, lets not forget some of those other 'gentlemen players' of the time, Hunter, Cooper, the Grays, Reaney, Madeley, Yorath, wasn't even Joe Jordan encouraged to take his teeth out so he looked more fierce. Even the fans were encouraged to be appalling as anybody unfortunate enough to visit Elland Road will testify, I recall seeing one of them climbing into the roof of the stand and defecating on his own mates in the crowd, nice one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
firbeck 860 Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 can't we offer some of Chelsea team etc a similar deal, maybe chuck in a council house? Plus pedestrian target practice in a club 4x4 and free access to team mates girlfriends. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Limey 242 Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Bremner was a pussy cat compared to Bobby Collins... Seeing some of that stuff in replay, then seeing the ref's decisions, you've got to wonder if Revie was paying off the refs? Certainly, some of the calls were blatantly incorrect! It is sad to me that talented people, who are more than capable of excelling in a properly played game, resort to these kind of tactics. It totally takes the skill and finesse out of the game - and it is that skill and finesse that is so wonderful to observe! I feel exactly the same about NHL hockey! Perhaps it really is time for England to "fall back and regroup" - not only as a national team, but also as the national sport. Lets put the feeder systems in place to develop the teenagers who show talent, but at the same time put some degree of rationality into the sport so that a top-line player can make a good living - not an obscene one, leaving money to bring along talent and pay them a fair wage? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beefsteak 305 Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I still reckon we could surprise a few people!!! I've got my holidays booked for summer, and I'm off till July 15th to get over the hangover ........LOL As for signing 'foreign' players to the English national squad, Owen Hargreaves anybody ????? Yet Almunia , formerly of Arsenal, had never played for Spain, had played most of his career in th UK , had wanted to play for us, had a duel nationality, was far better than our first choice keeper at the time ('Calamity' James) yet the FA tell him to FO!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley 288 Posted March 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 The one who knocked the teeth out is the fierce one, besides it would be a safety issue, choking etc but we are straying from the point, I know the Eggwiped game was a friendly but those players I mentioned, whilst good players are hardly world beaters? So what are their past experiences? Green aged 30 has spent all his career with Norwich and West Ham, so I guess plenty of practice getting the ball from back of the net, but against top teams? Milner, Leeds (inc loan to then 3rd div Swindon) and Newcastle, now with Villa Warnock 67 games for Liverpool, but over 9 years with loans out to Bradford and Coventry Baines Wigan and Everton, Wheres the Arsenal forwards, the Man U wingers, the Spurs goalie and defence? players that are regular week in week out and who not so long ago would be england regulars Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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