summut serious

[Bilboro-lad 294]

Nothing macho about it. I asked my GP about 6 months ago thinking it was a good thing to be tested - she talked me out of it.

Contact the NHS or Cancer Research UK and ask their advice. They are the experts aren't they? Well they advise AGAINST it. I listen to advice by the relevant authorities - you listen to god knows who. Who do you listen to?

[alisoncc 379]

Just a small contribution. Bladder problems and need to go to the loo numerous times during the night can often be fixed by the addition of coconut butter to one's diet. Sometimes know as coconut oil. Put it on your toast in the morning instead of your normal spread.

A significant constituent of coconut butter is Lauric Acid - an amino acid, that is converted in the body to monolaurate. Monolaurate has been found to significantly reduce prostate enlargement. Countries where coconut butter is a part of the diet have a been found to have a much lower incidence of prostate and bladder diseases.

[jackson 301]

Hi Alison, Coconut Oil / Butter, great as a moisturiser for the skin, also as a conditioner for the hair - lots of uses eh? and at such a reasonable price.

[Stan 386]

At last a bit of sense on this page! Other types of `nuts' at last!

[Bilboro-lad 294]

Yes. It makes a change not to hear about those who have been duped by biological testing labs into believing they have immortality by catching cancer early. It's crazy man. It's immoral and should be illegal. Any GP that goes against national guidelines just to make a commision should be struck off. Find yourself a new GP if they try to get you to be tested when you have no symptoms - and report them to the relevant medical authorities.

[Bilboro-lad 294]

A question for Stan.

Sooner or later the likelihood is that you will get a PSA test with raised levels. What will you do if or when that happens? Let's assume for arguments sake your last test showed raided levels. What would you do next?

Statistically there is a one-in-three chance that you have prostate cancer.

Statistically if your results come back as 'normal', there is still a one-in-seven chance that you have prostate cancer that doesn't show up in the tests.

Not very accurate is it?

So what are you going to do Stan?

Will you demand a biopsy (like you are demanding a PSA test?). Do you understand the risks? (Not to mention the discomfort)

Do you realise that a biopsy may leave you permanently incontinent, or with erectile dysfunction, or give you an infection?

[... 1,411]

Why dont you answer yuor own question what you say dont make sense one breath you say gps are rip off merchants who dont know what they are on about but wnen i questioned why you asked about psa you happen to have the only honest knowledgeable gp thats worth listening to you asked who we listened to and the answer would be the same person you would listen to if you were diognosed pc so cut the crap cos theres no way you would reject treatment if you had pc but the ironic thing is if you have aggressive pc in your body now it will kill you and when you die you will pee yourself and you wont be able to get an erection this is inevitable with your views .When you had your major surgery you could have researched the pros and cons of that surgery and risks involved with it but you chose to have it anyway and ended up with additional problems from that surgery there are people like yourself could have banged on about them risks to you but i doubt very much you would have listened because you were in pain and probably worried about the consequences without that op so cut the bloody crap and give people the same choice as you.Nobody hoodwinked us we were told that psa tests were not acc urate but depending on the results would determinethe advice which i have told you before i choose from various options ofered we were told those options honestly.Have you stopped to think if one person took your advice and chose to do nothing he would have zero chance of survival if he had aggressive cancer in his prostate this is not a game the facts are it is highly possible that from the people reading this some will have cancer that will take many years to kill them and some will be at a stage to be saved like me if from here i go on and things dont work out at least i have given myself a chance i dont give ashit about statisticsi am a realist and will do what it takes to survive common sense quite often overtakes education look at the world . Having said all that i still think if you were really concerned you had pc you would go and have the test because even stubborn dips have asense of survival.GO AND GET TESTED I HAVE USED CAPS .COS I FEEL LIKE IT IN CASE YOU ASK

[Bilboro-lad 294]

Well tell me why every national health care provider in every country in the world thinks you are wrong?

GPs make money by pushing screening. They should be FORCED to give the best medical advice, not the best advice to make themselves wealthy.

However, what we are talking about is the screening of "Asymptomatic patients". Ordinary people off the street with no hint of prostate problems. We aren't just talking about YOU. You were a prime candidate for testing. Your brother had prostate cancer, you were losing weight, you were tired and probably peeing all night. We aren't talking about YOUR case. We are talking about the average joe that HAS NO SYMPTOMS.

If you think I'm wrong - show me a website from a reputable healthcare provider that thinks it's a good idea.

[... 1,411]

One question whats the alternative please next time you are at Hospital look at the lititure on the wall in urology ask questions of the cancer nurses just try and keep an open mind dont see things in black and white we know the psa test isnt ideal but to my knowledge there is absolutely no side affects other than a pin prick.the decisions come after that .That is when you go into all the research and decide about biopsies etc i question your judgement wrong result with psa incontinence erectile dysfunction .to ignore death you are right id be devasted if they got it wrong but what can you do with death apart from haunt them you are right there were signs with me but i still followed my psa levels over 9 months which increased with every test within that time i did not panic and because they told me from onset they werent accurate i chose to wait 9 months you could have the psa and do what you wish with resuls and advice all these F//////G agencies that knock everything what did they offer me or men who would like to know if they have prostate cancer jack shit IF YOU DO JACKSHIT NOBODY CAN KNOCK YOU Icant prove or disprove whether anywhere in the world tests on mass but id like to bet every country in the world uses psa to test because up till today theres nothing else i havent read a lot about people sueing for misdiognosis but ive read and witnessed people beeing sorted .

[Bilboro-lad 294]

You can't sue for misdiagnosis as they tell you beforehand that it isn't accurate.

Two out of three with raised PSA WON'T have prostate cancer.

One out of seven that have a biopsy that comes back normal WILL have prostate cancer.

So then what do you do?

Do you assume that the PSA was wrong - or the biopsy is wrong?

With Russian Roulette you have a one in six chance of things going awfully wrong.

With a biopsy you have a one in seven chance of things going wrong.

So what do you do? Remove a perfectly good prostate? Live in fear?

[Stan 386]

Mr Charlesworth, no point in arguing the point further. There is an excellent balanced article for lay people from Sept. 2013,(American Cancer society). We are all agreed ( except Bilboro) that PSA is the best generally available test in the at present imperfect situation. Read the article. Well balanced and easy to understand.

Early detection

Doctors agree that the prostate-specific antigen (PSA) blood test is not a perfect test for finding prostate cancer early. It misses some cancers, and in other cases it is elevated when cancer isn't present. Researchers are working on two strategies to address this problem.

One approach is to try to improve on the test that measures the total PSA level, as described in the section "Can prostate cancer be found early?" The percent-free PSA is one way to do this, although it requires two separate tests. Another option might be to measure only the "complexed" PSA (the portion of PSA that is not "free") to begin with, instead of the total and free PSA. This one test could give the same amount of information as the other two done separately. Studies are now under way to see if this test provides the same level of accuracy.

The other approach is to develop new tests based on other tumor markers. Several newer blood tests seem to be more accurate than the PSA test, based on early studies. Early results have been promising, but these and other new tests are not yet available outside of research labs and will need more study before they are widely used to test for prostate cancer.

Other new tests being studied are urine tests. One test, called Progensa®, looks at the level of prostate cancer antigen 3 (PCA3) in the urine. The higher the level, the more likely that prostate cancer is present. In studies, it was used along with the PSA test.

Another test looks for an abnormal gene change called TMPRSS2:ERG in prostate cells. The cells to be tested are found in urine collected after a rectal exam. This gene change is found in about half of all localized prostate cancers. It is rarely found in the cells of men without prostate cancer. Studies are under way to develop this into a test for early detection of prostate cancer.

In some ways it is like the cervical cancer screening test.. Some women are too `shy' to have it. Depending on the skill of the person taking the smear you can have a false negative from incorrectly taken smears. Depending on who reads the smear at the lab it is possible to have false negatives. From a positive smear,women can then go on to have Colposcopy and guided biopsy (so in some ways similar to the PSA screen leading to further investigation) Whether men and women CHOOSE to be screened in this imperfect medical world is their CHOICE.

Early detection in both cases can provide cure.

[Bilboro-lad 294]

Show me one national care provider such as the NHS that agree with you. Just one will do. Universally the random testing for PSA is dismissed totally and completely. Don't get duped. Follow the health guidelines of the WORLD. Don't just put money in the pockets of the medical cartels.

[Stan 386]

If any one were in the unfortunate position of receiving care and advice from an organisation like NHS (British) (17th in Europe) compared with AUSTRALIA (1st in world health care) with universal access to PSA screening.

Bilboro ,you are so `head in the sand',there is little point in anyone trying to help you

[Bilboro-lad 294]

It's YOU that's head in the sand. Anyone over 50 here can ask for a PSA test - it's just that the GPs here don't get kickbacks like the aussie GPs do so they advise against it.

The Australian government are against random PSA testing - and so is the largest cancer charity is Australia.

Can you tell me Stan - just where did you get your information from? Who sold you on the rapidly dwindling pathway of annual testing?

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2013/june/02/psa-test-guidelines-prostate-cancer.aspx

It's going out of fashion mate. Sooner or later your GP will be forced to tell you the truth.

[... 1,411]

STILL NOT HEARD ALTERNATIVE .NHS GAVE ME MY PSA TEST AND NHS GAVE ME MY PSA TEST TODAY AND THE NHS WILL GIVE ME THE RESULT S OF THAT PSA TEST THE NHS PAID FOR MY BIOPSY THE NHS PAID FOR MY KEYHOLE SURGERY THE NHS TRAINED NURSES GAVE ME PRE AND POST CARE THE NHSPAID FOR EQUIPMENT THE NHS ORGANISED SCANS AND MRI THOUSANDS OF MEDICAL PROFFESSIONALS IN THIS COUNTRY ALONE QUITE HAPPY TO ORGANISE SERVICES ON THE BACK OF A PSA TEST DONT YOU THINK YOU SHOULD TELL THEM THERE DOING IT ALL WRONG CUS BILBOROLAD SAID SO

[Bilboro-lad 294]

No. It's the NHS telling ME that PSA testing of the populace is WRONG. It's the NHS guidelines - not me telling you. Your case was different. You are not on the same hymn sheet.

[... 1,411]

I might not be on the same song sheet but if i and my brother were convinced by your stupid argument 3 years ago we would be dead .and had there been routine testing across the world at a certain age there might be afew people peeing themselves for a short period and have difficulty with erections but even on your figures on the billions tested millions would be alive today and if you where poitivly tested 3 years ago you would not be of the same opinion because you would have gone for that biopsy and survived presuming that some idiot had not put you off being tested cant you see people like me will get the care we need because the warning signs are there its litrerally millions across the world that have no idea until its to late IT CANT BE RIGHT TO LET THAT HAPPEN wnen you take into account there loved ones thats a lot of people affected of course there will be people that dont get tested but everyone should be given the chance of life .you talk of figures in the singular multiply by reality Non of your argument would save lives all you quote is worse case sinario i quote definite.

[Bilboro-lad 294]

It's not my argument. It is the argument of every major healthcare provider across the world inc Australia, Canada, Usa, NZ, the whole of Europe. etc

All you have done is look at your own situation (which isn't what we are talking about). You had symptoms.

[... 1,411]

I think you are a cracker read above take me out of the eqasion and erase first linne and read tell you what put it this way testing acrossthe world thats not me billions tested thats nt me something in there about your opinion thats not me something about you surviving a biopsy i could go on but the idea is that when you have an opinion you use your brain and challenge just to keep quoting other peoples views and opinions is stupid because if you read the postsof people thats experinced the realityof pc you would learn something all you do is quote for gods sake man youre an intelligent chap when it comes to finding no alternative drivvle is positivity a word you use come into the real world ALL YOU ARE DOING IS TELLING US THE NEGATIVE SIDE OF WHATTHE PROFFESSIONALS TOLD US AT THE OUTSET THAT WASENT HIDDEN BUT UNLIKE YOU THEY GAVE ALTERNATIVES Tell us how do we detect prostate cancer wher there is no history please answer this question reallity is if this goes unanswered that is seal of death for millionns across the world and all the countrys dont give a shit cos people like you think if they say its ok then its ok australia new zealand who gives a s//t what ever country get you hands in your pocket and find an alternative rather than knocking the proffessionals who have to put up with what they have got .now mr bilboro lad whatis the alternative .

[Bilboro-lad 294]

Cancer Research Uk in Cambridge (against random testing) are working on a genetic test that will predict aggressive cancers from benign. Do a google. That is the future, not leaving a trail of unnecessary suffering and damage to people that never had a problem.

The barbarity of the old regime is (thankfully) on the way out.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10457329/Test-for-aggressive-prostate-cancer.html

[... 1,411]

You dont seem to be able to read i said give us an alternative TODAY AND YESTERDAY what you have critised you are quoting again how the hell do you know thats the future when its not even developed Yet cancer research have been going to eradicate cancer for years but its still here .Answer the question w h a t i s t h e a l t e r n a t i v e T O D A Y. please try and string a sentence together on your own.i dont know what you did pre internet its like talking to a computer just turning out endless drivvle.

[Bilboro-lad 294]

It's you that's talking drivel. I follow the health advice that the world agrees with.

Did you read the link I gave you? Or the one before? You are like a religious zealot. Nothing on this earth will change your mind for the simple reason you don't want it to.

If the health agencies of the world can't change your mind - then I'm hardly likely to am I?

Nothin on this planet will change your mind. Your mind is set in Araldite.

[... 1,411]

mind of your own why cant you answer a question affraid you might get it wrong for gods sake man think of something thats not printed for you what is the alternative if you cant answer it go on the internet and search the world including all agencies and countries you have quoted all that brain... power on one screen and tell me what is the alternative today.ANSWER PLEASE call me what you like i dont give a dam but when you finished answer the question whatis the alternative to psa testing .

[... 1,411]

By the way it is easy to change my mind telling me to let people rot because theres no alternative is not the way. to tell people its not the answer tyhen give no alternative what sort of experts are they is your answer the same lay down and die.or are you actually going to answer a question .Araldite zealot i will give you a clue that is not a answer now try again .

[Bilboro-lad 294]

Mr Charlesworth. What qualification do you have that can authoritatively overrule the whole medical opinion of the whole world and say that you are right and they are wrong? Jus' wonderin'.