NewBasfordlad 3,599 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 I happened to be trawling though Ebay today and came across some of these for sale. As I have two brand new from Gedling Pit it took my interest. Mine are Type 6 M & O made by Eccles circa mid 80s. I was most surprised to find that on Ebay they are fetching from £100 to £175 per unit. I won't be parting with mine but was very pleased with the increase in price, better than money in the bank. Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ayupmeducks 1,730 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Far too much for used lamps, BUT, there's always a fool who will part with his money....I bought two brand new oil lamps about 20 years back. Eccles still make oil lamps, but not up to the standard of the ones that were used within the industry. Oil lamps now are a thing of the past, old technology that few countries mining industries use anymore. Mine are the Garforth pattern, relightable Officials lamps, I paid $120 Australian for each of mine, which was the going price mining companies paid for them back then. I could have built a couple from scrap parts when I was covering surface elec duties, but being the honest person I am, I went for brand new lamps from our supplier. There's a lot of whining on QRZ, the amateur radio forum about ridiculous prices on "Fleabay" for older used ham radio equipment...Most gear sold used, can be bought half the price in local ham fleamarkets. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dgbrit 258 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 25 pounds each here. I have 2 Shotfirers with striker new .Not for sale They sort of started me on collecting oil & acetylene lamps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ayupmeducks 1,730 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 The relightable lamps are "Officials" lamps, Manager, Under Manager, Senior Overman, Overman, Deputy's and Shotfirers..They were also used by authorized personnel like surveyors and "lines lads" ie surveyors assistants who used to "set a line" on gate roads to keep the face on track. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ayupmeducks 1,730 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 If you want to light the lamps, the closest fuel I've been able to find is Colemans lamp fuel, it's intended for camping lamps, but is very close to the correct fuel we used to use. DON'T UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE PETROL/GASOLINE!!!!! highly dangerous!! If your lamp has a magentic lock, you'll need a powerful magnet to open the lock, hold the magnet to the underside of the lock, then pull the lock mechanism outwards, the fuel filler hole is hidden by the lock. Mine are the lead seal type. Protector have service kits for their oil lamps, NOT CHEAP though!! Wicks, gauzes, lamp glasses, lamp glass washers and flints. BE CAREFUL if your lamp has an abestos glass seal, the lamps use two glass seals, top one was asbestos and bottom one was a fibre seal, dispose of the asbestos seal and purchase a new fibre seal for safety!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dgbrit 258 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 My mate got me the lamps he was in miners rescue ,Emergency winder based in Ilkeston. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Compo 10,328 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 Those lamps were a marvel of engineering. Virtually idiot proof. My ex father-in-law had his 'deputy' one when he retired. I have no idea what became of it though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ayupmeducks 1,730 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 I took a "gas test" when I was serving my apprenticeship, takes a trained eye to read a 1.25% gas cap...Today mines use multi gas detectors, although I'd still prefer the flame safety lamp for black damp detection...D6 methanometers were used for methane when I left the industry, but the Deputy still carried an oil lamp for blackdamp detection..(Black damp isn't a gas as such, it's lack of oxygen, or more aptly CO2 and Nitrogen) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NewBasfordlad 3,599 Posted December 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 Interesting, both mine have a stainless steel toothed bar that when pulled/pushed back and forward operate a flint striker. I can presume then they are officials lamps. Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ayupmeducks 1,730 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 It's called a "striker" Colin... Only officials lamps have the relighting device, the lamp usually has a stainless steel bonnet, whereas a "workmans " lamp has an ordinary steel bonnet. Never seen a stainless steel striker though, all the ones I've seen in my time in the industry had straight steel strikers. Part of my job when surface electrician was lamproom officer, I had to strip, clean, examine oil lamps and sign the statutary book that they complied to the safety regulations, and also enter defects found and what I had done to correct any defects. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NewBasfordlad 3,599 Posted December 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Thanks for that every little bit of info helps. Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ayupmeducks 1,730 Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 A few more snippets of info, the wick is in two parts, the lower section is a long one, pinned in place, to change it, you have to unsolder the bottom of the base. The top section is replaceable, it's about an inch in length. The lamp has two gauzes, we used a special stiff gauze cleaning brush to clean the soot out of it, then examined the gauzes for wire breaks under an illuminated magnifying lense. The latter style of lamp, called a Garforth pattern, had a "port" on the bottom of the mid section just above the base to accept a bulb for remote sampling of gas, it contains a square screw off retainer which secures two sintered bronze discs. The prior pattern of lamp had a nipple on the bonnet and a set of shut off rings near the bottom of the bonnet, the nipple accepted a rubber hose and sampling bulb to take direct samples of air from roof cavities, the rings were shut to allow the sample of air to be blown into the lamp. Problem with that pattern of lamp, was if you didn't watch the flame carefully, you could get a "flare" up of methane within the lamp causing a methane ignition. It was abandoned in favour of the Garforth pattern. With training and practice, a good Deputy could read a 1.25% gas cap and distinguish between 1.25%, 1.5%, 2% onwards AND take it from me, there isn't a lot of difference in those gas caps to the untrained eye!! 1.25%, all electricity is to be isolated, all shot firing to be stopped, any diesel engine to be shut down....I think at 2% all men had to be withdrawn to safety....Lower point of explosibility is 5%, most dangerous around 10%. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NewBasfordlad 3,599 Posted December 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Yes that would be correct. I am a gas engineer so am used to working with methane. Lower explosive limit 5% Upper explosive limit 15% so 10% smack in the middle. Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ayupmeducks 1,730 Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 At Boulby in North Yorks we had ALL the hydrocarbon series of gasses, methane being the most in quantity, hydrogen being the most dangerous, as there is no flameproof certification for electrical equipment, it is just too violent when ignited. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Booth 7,364 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I saw this today and thought that you may be interested in the photo titled: The South Normanton Pit Rescue Team. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ayupmeducks 1,730 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Just another bit of information as the thread has been bumped. Although the flame safety lamp started out in life as a safe source of lighting for the miner, it was known way back, that methane would burn with a blue hue on the flame of a candle. As the lamp evolved, it started to be used to test for "firedamp", then it was noticed the flame would start to die in or around "blackdamp". Blackdamp is deadly, it's not technically a gas, but better known as "absence of oxygen" generally a mixture of nitrogen and carbon dioxide which takes the place of oxygen, generally found leaking out of old workings... Been in a position of high tailing it out of a road that was registering high levels of blackdamp, Deputy's lamp went out and he couldn't relight it!!. They will register gas caps of CO too, but if you see that gascap, you are as good as dead anyway!!! It's also suspected the flame safety lamp has caused many ignitions of firedamp, problem is the lamps were damaged so badly, it's impossible to really say if each explosion where a lamp was suspected, actually was the cause. The Appin Colliery explosion that occurred in 1979 in NSW, killing everyone in the district was claimed to have been caused by the Deputy's lamp.....Now a new investigation of the evidence has been carried out from the original evidence and is focussing on a fan starter and the electricians negligence... I saw that fan and my first words were..." How come the inside of the door is spotless white and the inside of the chamber is covered in soot"!!!! The electrician who showed me said "we asked the same question"!!! It was the source of ignition.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BulwellBrian 107 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Methane is lighter than air so in still conditions it will collect in roof cavities. Carbon Dioxide is heavier than air and will collect in depressions including caves again if the air is still. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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