mrgodber 1 Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 My 2x great grandfather and my great grandfather (as a boy) lived at 77(I think!) Pepper Street Radford. Can anybody let me know where this street was. Other Census addresses include Lindsay Street, Russell Street, Noel Street and Hyson Green Road which I can find quite easily. What has happened to Pepper Street? I found a Pepper Street in the centre of town but I'm fairly sure this is not the street I'm after. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff Ton 10,488 Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Are you certain it was Pepper Street in Radford? eg; is it a family story which has been handed down, or do you have printed evidence? I can find a Pepper Yard in Hyson Green, Pepper Alley in Narrow Marsh, and Pepper Place in Basford (as well as the well-known Pepper Street in the city centre). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveN 1,118 Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 There's a mention of Pepper Street in this article http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/articles/mellorsarticles/radford3.htm 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mgread1200 141 Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Good find DaveN! Hyson Green it was. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff Ton 10,488 Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 This same area of Hyson Green / Radford came up in another thread only a few weeks ago http://nottstalgia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12526&page=2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrgodber 1 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 I have an excerpt from the 1871 Census (RG10; Piece: 3503; Folio: 63; Page: 15; GSU roll: 839744) Civil Parish listed as Radford showing occupants of 72 to 77 Pepper Street. Maybe it was in Hyson Green but was still covered by Radford in the Census? I've read the article (Thanks DaveN!) which suggests this is the case. Does anyone have an old map showing Pepper Street though? It must have existed in 1871 at least. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrgodber 1 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 I've just realised that the number in the Census is the schedule number, not the house number! Did Census takers go to adjacent streets in order? Schedules 52 - 55 are for Northampton Row, 56 - 61 Looks like Heyson(?) Passage, Pepper street goes from 62 - 88 (So that's quite a few houses) it then returns to Heyson Passage again going to Forest Street at 99 Grateful for any help! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob.L 1,091 Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 In most cases, the census taker didn't back-track, so if there was a side road between, say, number 25 and number 27, the houses on the side road/alley/place would be in between them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff Ton 10,488 Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Schedules 52 - 55 are for Northampton Row, 56 - 61 Looks like Heyson(?) Passage, Pepper street goes from 62 - 88 (So that's quite a few houses) it then returns to Heyson Passage again going to Forest Street at 99 Grateful for any help! This is a bit complicated because I can't get all my information on one map so I've had to invent things. This shows Pepper's Yard, Hyson Green (I can't find any map showing Pepper Street, but it doesn't mean there wasn't one). I've marked Hyson Passage because it was labelled on another map I looked at. You can also see Forest Street and connecting alleys. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrgodber 1 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Many thanks Cliff! This looks promising as my relative was in Pepper "Street" in the 1871 Census and then on Lindsay Street in 1881 (Very close by) Pepper "Street" was listed as his residence in the 1841 Census too. In the 1861 Census the listing is rather unclear. It seems to say Hyson Green Road, (Something unreadable!) Forest Street, 1 Adams Row (My relative was a 4 Adam's Row). Is it possible that this was a row of houses on Forest Street rather than a road in its own right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrgodber 1 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Just a thought.... How accurate (controlled) were nineteenth century census takers? Could bits of Lindsay Street have been listed as Pepper street because Pepper's Yard was at one end? If the census taker had cut through into Pepper's Yard from the main road on the right - is that Radford Road? - could he have made an error? Odd that it happened in two censuses though..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff Ton 10,488 Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Is it possible that this was a row of houses on Forest Street rather than a road in its own right? Exactly the same thing cropped up in a thread about Netherfield a few weeks ago; an old road couldn't be found, but it turned out that it had been part of what is now another road. Here's a variation on the previous map. Resolution is a bit dodgy because I've had to enlarge it; I've marked Pepper's Yard because it still isn't very clear, but you'll also see named Adam's Place (below Pepper's Yard) and Adam's Cottages to the left of Pepper's Yard. You'll also see this is where I got Hyson Passage from. Remember road names change over the years. Even if they don't disappear under demolition, they can remain but be called something different. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrgodber 1 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Many thanks again! This all looks to tie up pretty well. My relative was a humble lace worker and so probably rented cottages all around the same area. Pepper "something", Adams "something" and Lindsay Street all within the area on this map is excellent. Incidentally, I have ordered an 1899 map of Radford to further my research. Is that the one you have used here? Thank you again for your help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveN 1,118 Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 I have ordered an 1899 map of Radford to further my research. Is that the one you have used here? Thank you again for your help. Is it the Alan Godfrey map you've ordered - if so you get them at some Nottingham shops Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrgodber 1 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 There are 13 houses shown in Adam's Place and 13 houses listed in the 1861 census so I'm pretty confident that that IS Adam's Row. Incidentally, there are 24 houses entered under Pepper Street in the 1861 Census. Maybe Pepper Street IS Lindsay Street! It is the Godfrey map I have ordered. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff Ton 10,488 Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 The second - more detailed - map is from here. http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html It'll take you a while to find your way around it because navigation is a bit clunky. And you can't enlarge to hi-res the way you could in the early days. If you stick with it, you might answer more of your questions, but it'll annoy you in the process. BTW, I suspect you will find that Pepper Street is not on your soon-to-arrive Godfrey map, because that road seems to have disappeared by the mid-19th century. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrgodber 1 Posted June 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Hi Cliff. Many Thanks for all your help. Can I just ask one more favour?! Could you let me know the modern road names near to this section so that I can locate it on oldmaps.co.uk (see what you mean about navigation!) Many Thanks, Martin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrgodber 1 Posted June 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Found it using St Paul's Church as a reference! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrgodber 1 Posted June 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 I have located Adams Row on the south side of Forest Street to the west of Adams street junction! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
taxi ray 170 Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 mrgodber, the area shown on the maps clifton posted, are not on the Radford map. They are on the Nottingham NW 1913. Pepper street is not shown, but lindsay st and forest st are. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrgodber 1 Posted June 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Thanks taxi ray. I've realised and have now ordered the two to the north. My dad still lives in Sherwood! Have learnt some serious research skills over the past few days! One of my great, great grandfathers was convicted for running a dodgy pub in Derby for example! Thanks to all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrgodber 1 Posted June 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 Thanks for everyone's help. It is a bit depressing to discover that Pepper/Lindsay street and Adam's Row are now buried beneath Asda, Hyson Green! I guess the need for lace workers' terraced houses with no inside loos, running water etc. has become somewhat reduced. Looking forward to the next research issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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