Carrington Street Goods Depot

[firbeck 860]

When I was waiting for my train to St Pancras a couple of months ago ( I'm sorry, I never did get round to doing St Pancras Pt 2 ) I wandered over the road to look at the former goods office building. I have to say it had been nicely restored, but it raised a few questions with me. First of all I remember that the down stairs windows had originally been fitted with lovely etched glass windows saying 'Midland Railway Goods Office' which I recall were still in place not long before the building was put to a different use, does anyone know what happened to these or were they just smashed up. I also wondered whether this was the original railway station building, closed in 1849 when The Midland was built across the road, I've tracked down various pictures, but can't be exactly sure.

Incidentally, going back to my journey to St Pancras ( we'll not talk about the transvestite ticket inspector on the train, or my adventures in London because of the tube strike ) the noticeable thing was the wholesale removal of the old railway infrastructure. Leaving Nottingham all traces had been removed, no more sidings anywhere, or sign of where they used to be, apart from the yard alongside the University playing fields which I presume was in use to unload tram track, or it looked that way.

I couldn't work out whether there was a spur into Brush works at Loughborough, but there were sidings in use at Mountsorrel for Lafarge. Leicester still had it's engine shed, with a couple of sorry looking class 56's lurking about and even a small Midland Railway signal box, I hope it's a listed building. As for the rest of the system, Wellingborough's once extensive yards and sheds were under a sea of small birch trees, with just one of the old goods buildings remaining. Bedford had some sidings for electric units, and so did Cricklewood, but apart from that everything had been swept away.

[Cliff Ton 10,490]

First photo is the closest you'll get to the windows, the other two are aerial views.

http://www.picturethepast.org.uk/frontend.php?action=printdetails&keywords=Ref_No_increment;EQUALS;NTGM008337&prevUrl=

http://www.picturethepast.org.uk/frontend.php?action=printdetails&keywords=Ref_No_increment;EQUALS;NTGM009141&prevUrl=

http://www.picturethepast.org.uk/frontend.php?action=printdetails&keywords=Ref_No_increment;EQUALS;NTGM009143&prevUrl=

I don't think the Goods place was the original station, but it seems to be in the same location as the original station, judging by the position of the stone gate posts which are still in place today.

[firbeck 860]

I found this more recent photo of it, perhaps parts of the original station entrance were incorporated into the later building.

The original sidings were quite extensive going all the way up to Lenton Junction, then of course there were the cattle docks on the other side, the engine sheds, the Ordnance factory sidings ( usually full of tarpaulin covered gun barrels on flat beds ), the track down to Clifton Colliery and Wilford power station, then Beeston sidings were on both sides including the fascinating creosote works with it's narrow gauge railway.

[StephenFord 866]

My dad used to work in that building.

[notty ash 372]

Carrington Street would originally have been at rail level. The railway line terminated at Nottingham so there was no need to raise the road to its current height. Therefore, if any of the original station entrance remains, it ought to be below the current street level. I think there was a level crossing, even when the Lincoln line was first built. I don't know when the road was raised and the bridge built over the railway, but it must have been fairly early as maps of the late 1880s show the current setup.

[Merthyr Imp 729]

It's stated in several books (which I'm too lazy to find one to quote in particular) that the gate posts in Cliff Ton's post are all that's left of the original station.

[Bilbraborn 1,594]

The gateposts were indeed the originals when I worked on the railway at Nottingham. The Lincoln line crossed Carrington Street by level crossing, but when the traffic became too busy, the bridge was built raising Carrington Street, Much of the goods depot was below street level. The original ground floor of the Bentinck Hotel became part of the cellar and a new entrance was created on the first floor which became the new ground floor.

When I first started working on the railway in 1978, I was located at Nottingham Carriage Sidings east of London Road, but often had occasion to pass through the goods depot.

[Cliff Ton 10,490]

The only old photo (apparently 1860s) I've ever come across which shows the area before Carrington Street was raised over the railway line. According to the caption, the lines crossed the road at the point which I've marked as a red line. All the buildings on the right are long gone. The Goods building might be the flat-roofed one next to the tree in the rear centre.

To get your bearings on this.........the road coming in from the bottom of the photo is the top end of Arkwright Street; the road going off to the right (behind the trees) is Queen's Road.

[notty ash 372]

That is a fascinating photo!

Comparing the photo with the drawing of the original station in an earlier post, I would suggest the building next to the tree must be the original station.

I wonder if the line crossing the road is not slightly further away from the camera than your red line implies. If you look closely just above the LH end of your red line you can see some level crossing gates. It is difficult to see for sure, but I wonder if the large shed structure in front of the station building is an overall roof for the Lincoln line platforms?

[Braddy 160]

Hi. Bilbraborn do you remember the paper train coming into carrington goods yard to unload the national newspapers onto vehicles for delivery to the shops, the entrance to the goods yard was next to the Carrington office and down the ramp what is now the courts, this would happen at about 4-30 am in the morning, this happened six days a week, and the train carrying sundays papers went to low level station to unload and pack the papers for the shops in the early hours off sunday morning.

[Cliff Ton 10,490]

I wonder if the line crossing the road is not slightly further away from the camera than your red line implies. If you look closely just above the LH end of your red line you can see some level crossing gates.

Now you mention it, I agree !

[firbeck 860]

I take it as well that the photo is taken on a bridge over Tinkers Leen, which, until I looked up on some maps to work out what the bridge could have been, I didn't realise existed. I presume this was the River Leen route that boats used up to Brewhouse Yard and the base of the Castle from the River Trent before the canal was built.

So, if this picture was taken in the 1860's, Carrington Street had been closed for about 20 years and the entrance to what became Midland was off Station Road, it would surprise me then if the old Carrington Lincoln platforms still retained an overall roof.

[Bilbraborn 1,594]

The building in the background is what is now the Bentinck Hotel as I mentioned earlier. It was one of the regular haunts of station staff.

Braddy, the memories I had of the paper train were at London Road low level. One of us had to nip across and clip and scotch all the points the train went over in London Road Yard. This was because there were no facing point locks and there were non-railway personnel on board the paper train. When the train arrived, the shunter would be positioned at the top end of the yard. When the train had crossed the points, he would signal with his handlamp to the signalman at the Goods Yard Box, the points would change and the subsignal would come off. Then the shunter would hand signal the driver of the paper train to reverse into the old station. Then all the staff would descend onto the train for the freebies. Later, when the train departed, the shunter had to do the same again the opposite way round as the loco propelled the train up to the top yard. Only this time the driver was able to easily see the subsignal come off and was right away back to London.

I remember once when there were gypsies camped in the top yard. When the shunter came back he was not very happy. The gypsies dogs had chased him round and round the paper train.

[notty ash 372]

The old photo of Carrington Street is on the web here http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~leveritt/8628_1_Nottingham_Carrington_Street_1860.jpg and states the date as around 1860, which I guess could include the 1850s. That would make the photo closer to the closure of the original station.

Does anyone have information about who took the photo? As early photos go, it is interesting in that they have successfully recorded a lot of people. The general technique in early days was to take long exposures, which meant that most people appeared as "ghosts", or not at all, because they were moving during the exposure.

Looking at maps suggests to me that the whole site of the old station, including the original through lines to Lincoln, were then used as a goods depot. The new through lines look as if they were built a little to the south of the original ones.

The Midland may have used the old overall roof for goods purposes, rather than demolish it straight away. Some old stations, like Sheffield Wicker, were used for goods purposes long after they ceased to be used for passengers.

All of this is speculation, of course.

It would be interesting to know when the new office building (now the Bentinck Hotel) was built.

[Cliff Ton 10,490]

Does anyone have information about who took the photo?

Samuel Bourne, who seems to have been famous and prolific and from Nottingham.

It would be interesting to know when the new office building (now the Bentinck Hotel) was built.

I wondered that. I'm sure the Bentinck isn't the building in the old photo. The Bentinck looks late 19th century. The best map I can come up with is 1880s when Carrington Street is on a bridge; but it's interesting to see the hotel (whether the old or the new) at that stage was called the Victoria Hotel. That would've been bl**dy confusing in later times.

[Merthyr Imp 729]

I thought that old photo of the 1860s looked familiar, and I overcame my afore-mentioned laziness enough to track it down in the small book: 'The Development of Nottingham's Railways' by J. P. Wilson:-

http://www.transportstore.com/book.cfm/3410/56/The_Development_of_Nottinghams_Railways_WILSON_JP

I'm guessing that's the book Cliff Ton is giving some details from in his postings?

Some further items of relevant interest from that book, some of which have already been mentioned:

'[in 1862] the Midland Railway were making preparations for a proposed viaduct over the Queens Road level crossing [i.e. a road viaduct] but powers were not obtained until 1866...It was finally completed about September 1869.'

'The completion of the viaduct coincided with other alterations and improvements at the station....The viaduct altered the relative levels of the road and adjacent buildings. The Victoria Hotel (later renamed the Bentinck Hotel) at the corner of Station Street, was elevated by another floor with a new entrance on the former first floor. A similar reconstruction took place at the Queen's Hotel at the corner of Queen's Walk and Arkwright Street. Evidence of this can be seen to this day.'

'The old station...was demolished in 1875 and replaced by a new building which served as the goods offices for many years and still stands. The gate pillars leading to the yard would appear to be part of the original station, although the capping stones have been damaged and replaced by bricks.'

[Bilbraborn 1,594]

The station we have today was to look as good as Nottingham Vic.

[Bilbraborn 1,594]

Thanks for that Merthyr. I also think that Queens Road was built for Queen Victoria when she arrived by rail to continue her journey by road to Belton House.

[notty ash 372]

If the old station was demolished in 1875 and the viaduct was built in 1869, then the building in the Bourne photo must be the original Carrington St station.

If Samuel Bourne took the photo, then it must date between 1854/5 when he took up photography and 1863 when he went to India for an extended tour lasting several years.

His well-known photo of London Road station can be dated, as the building was still being finished, to 1856. The photo of Carrington Street looks inferior in quality for several reasons. That makes me wonder if it actually predates the London Road picture (by which time he might have improved his skills and techniques?). If so, then the Carrington St photo would have been taken only a few short years after Carrington St station was closed to passengers.

[Cliff Ton 10,490]

I thought that old photo of the 1860s looked familiar, and I overcame my afore-mentioned laziness enough to track it down in the small book: 'The Development of Nottingham's Railways' by J. P. Wilson:-

I'm guessing that's the book Cliff Ton is giving some details from in his postings?

Correct ! That's where I 'borrowed" the photo from. But I never got round to copying any of the text here.

[notty ash 372]

Just for fun, here are 3 maps for comparison

and here, the earliest overlaid by the latest

The goods shed was clearly extensively rebuilt and expanded between 1884 and 1901.

If only we had even earlier maps!

I seem to remember seeing a plan of the old Carrington St station after the Lincoln lines had been built, but can't remember where - and certainly don't possess a copy.

[Merthyr Imp 729]

There's this diagram rather than actual plan or map in the same book by J. P. Wilson:

[Merthyr Imp 729]

Looking at that again, I think the arrows 'To Lincoln' and 'To Grantham' are on the wrong lines.

[notty ash 372]

Thanks Merthyr Imp. That diagram does fit in neatly with the 1860 photo.

Comparing it with the 1884 OS map suggests that the overall roof for the Lincoln line platforms at the old Carrington St station was retained for a long while after the new station was opened - latterly as a goods shed.

[Merthyr Imp 729]

Thanks Merthyr Imp. That diagram does fit in neatly with the 1860 photo.

Of course it could very well be that diagram was drawn up with reference to the 1860s photo! My guess is that it was only produced for the book.