DJ360

Colin, I don't claim to be always right, or to put people right. I don't expect people to agree with me on everything either. I just ask that people produce some sort of evidence to support what they claim are 'facts'. The stuff about Marx above is a classic example. I posted a little earlier that I wanted to give my view on Anti Semitism, and I also posted that I wanted to reply to two people. They were Brew.. who I've now replied to, and yourself. There were two points we were at odds on as I recall. The first was Taxation. I'll admit I wasn't too clear there.

Brew, I'm not one of those who think political correctness strangles free speech. I have never felt that I was unable to express a view on anything. There is one exception. I am not allowed, under UK Law, to preach hate, discrimination etc. But tht's no loss to me because I have no desire to do those things. I can quite legally question, or support levels of immigration.. I can be critical of Islam, or any other religion, etc. But, under UK Law.. I cannot preach hate, incite violence etc., etc. That is exactly what those invoking the 'specious' or 'made up' concept of 'Cultural Marxism'

Not trying to have the last word on anything Graham. I think most if not all of my posts in this thread have addressed a different comment. But, when people post stuff which is factually incorrect, such as the stuff about Marx above, I just like to put things straight. I've said this many times. People are entitled to their views, but I don't believe people are entitled to support their views with inaccurate information, or to make potentially imflammatory statements without expecting a response. A couple of things I'd like to respond to a bit later, because I owe tho

Took me a minute to get what you were referring to there. Karl Marx never used anything to control anybody. Karl Marx was a Sociologist and Political -EconomicTheorist. He died in 1883. Long before the term Political Correctness was invented. As far as I know, he never held any form of political office. He had many interesting ideas, but some of his major predictions never came true. For example, he expected revolution to start in the Western Industrialised nations, whereas it actually started in Russia. His grave is in Highgate Cemetary in London. A Communist Plot.

Corbyn always supported the idea of a United Ireland. He is entitled to that view. He is essentially a pragmatist who sees that conflict must always eventually be resolved by discussion. Corbyn has never denied meeting with Sinn Fein and others., but has always stated his condemnation of violence 'on all sides'. Whilst no sane person, IMHO, would support the indiscrimnate bombing and killing of innocent people, I thnk we have to recognnise that elements of the British Army and very probsably the Security Services, weren't exactly 'snow white' either. I think it is also

Wilberforce was instrumental in ending the slave trade from Africa to North America and the Carribean. in the 19th Century. That has nothing directly to do with the situation in South Africa, which developed in the 20th Century under a very repressive White regime, largely dominated by the descendents of Boer settlers I believe, which oppressed the indiginous Black population until the 1980s. There's a common thread, in that whites were oppressing blacks, but otherwise it was different situation. Political Correctness has little to do with freedom of speech. And freed

Fly, I don't think anybody here is singling out England, or Britain for special condemnation. Conquest and colonisation were the normal way of conducting geo -politics from almost the dawn of time and I don't believe we Brits were any better or worse than anybody else overall. It is true that many of our former colonies continued to adopt similar education systems and so on, but many have been rather less successful at achieving a working democracy after independence against a background of tribal and other political forces which work against it. A similar 'post colonial' pattern is eviden

I've just come in after an evening of highly irresponsible boozing and carousing. I shall resume this fascinating discussion tomorrow. Night all.

You were doing so well till the anti Semites bit. Whatever your opinion of Corbyn, both know that the Establishment cabal of Tories/their Corporate backers, the assorted crooks who benefit from Govt. out sourcing an the media all fear Corbyn.He will cost them as they are forced to pay their taxes and stop bleeding the state for every penny they can steal. The anti Semitism issue is a concereted campaign by the establishment to smear him. He's about as anti Semitic as Moses. He's not handling it well, but neither he nor his party are anti-semitic.

Statue of William Wilberforce in Hull. I believe there are many others. And of course there wasnt a mass exodus by then the slaves were all US born, dependent upon their former 'masters' for work and still treated like shit... as many still are. Some founded Liberia though.

Herald Sun is an Australian Populist newspaper, seemingly similar to our own dear Sun.. which you won't find in Liverpool. I've looked at a lot of stuff about Mandela. I agree he was no saint in the early days, but then if you were a black Native South African, denied a vote, told where you could go, who you could associate with, where you could live in your own country and who you could marry.. What would you do? Here's another view of Mandela. There are loads online: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/12/05/world/africa/Mandela

Ok, in this case I withdraw the word 'provocative', but you really didn't expect me to let a mention of ' Tommy ( "My real name is Yaxley-Lennon") Robinson' pass without pointing out that he is a long term petty criminal and was jailed for crimes, not for his views as he likes to imply? Col

Boudica? Oliver Cromwell? It's never clear cut and probably the most misused charge in history is that of Treason. Treason is essentially whatever the ruling powers say it is. Anne Boleyn was found guilty of High Treason in order to give Henry VIII an excuse to get rid of her. Numerous others died at Henry's order for similarly trumped up reasons. Sophie Scholl was guillotined in Germany by the Nazis on charges of High Treason. She was 21 and 'guilty' of distributing anti war leaflets. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S

It is a political discussion Mike. That's true. But I agree with Margie that it is also a polite and informative one. Personally, I don't think I've ever started a political discussion, but I do respond to provocative statements. Col

I recall way back in the 1950s, when I was maybe about 5-7 yrs old. I was walking with my Mum on the left of Bulwell Main Street as you head to the Market from the Hucknall end. There was a bloke stood there under the awnings, talking to somebody. He had his arms folded in front and was holding a roughly folded shirt, being stripped to the waist. I asked my Mum why the man wasn't wearing a shirt and she said he was 'showing off'. I must be a right old bighead, because I spend much of my time 'topless' and a fair bit even less attired. But not in Bulwell Main Street....

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Neither do I Fly. This is jnot a 'falling out' thing. I think we just see things differently. For me, the country is now not only divided over the 'left' and 'right' of politics, but also over the 'In and Out 'of the EU. Also the 'in' and 'out' are not related to Left or Right. It's a mess, and I know what I'd do.. but that's not for this thread. Col

Thaks TBI. Any chance of a link to the article? Col

I don't see any connection between Brexit and pride in the country. I am an ardent remainer, and I'm proud of my country and its achievements.

Part of the reason my Grandad Jack won his Military Medal, was, that after he had organised medical help for his injured crew, and turned the Gun using the horses, he then took them to a place of safety before returnig to the gun and manning it single handedly.

The cars always fascinated me. I was only maybe 12-14 years old at the time and knew little about the engineering side of it, but the cars mostly just looked so mean. We went from a Buxton camping trip to Belle Vue one Saturday and as I recall it was the first meeting of a new season. Also, I was told that the max weight of the cars had been reduced or somesuch so that many had to have new, or rebuilt cars. Albert 'Tiger' Griffin was there with his new machine: As I recall it was blue white and yellow with the tiger painted on the side. Had something like a 7.2/7.

I imagine landing fees would tend to hike up the true cost of your ice cream!! Seriously.. what sort of fees do airports charge?

Nev Hughes.. another name I recall. now you mention it.

I remember that competition when I was a regular there. There was a chap who turned up every week with a big old Allard with an impossibly long bonnet. Maybe a P1 or P2. He never did very well. The thing was just too long. Oddly, I don't remember music at all.

You see that's the problem Phil. You can tell them they'll all fit.. but getting them all together at one time is a logistical nightmare....