annswabey 599 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 I had a few relatives who lived close by. We lived in Bilborough - wouldn't want to live there now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Pianoman 1,535 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 My Dads half brother lived on Bracebridge Drive, otherwise all my family originate from Aspley, Radford, Hyson Green - except me, I'm St. Anns! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
annswabey 599 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 My Dad's family lived in Hyson Green, Basford and Radford. My Mums lived in Medders and Sneinton 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Pianoman 1,535 Posted March 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 Well just when you think you have solved one mystery you find another. My Great Grandmother Mary Harvey's death cert. arrived today. My unmarried Great Grandmother was a widow! She was the widow of a William Harvey. The only record I can find on FreeBMD is of a Mary Harvey marrying a John J. Harvey at Worksop, first quarter of 1915. I really have no doubt that the name and address of the informant on this death certificate, William Harvey of 93 Melbourne Road is my Fathers Uncle Bill. What on earth do I do next? Where will it end? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
annswabey 599 Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 How odd! Might be a fib, of course, to make her seem more "respectable". Quite "convenient", too, that her husband had the same surname as her maiden name! However, that occupation is quite specific - nothing vague, like labourer. Wonder if the father of some or all of her children was a William, but don't suppose you'll ever know. You could check back through the electoral rolls for the address to see if a William was living there too, or look for a death for him, but no doubt there will be loads! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Pianoman 1,535 Posted March 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 Yes there was a William living there until (I can't remember exactly) but late 60's early 70's and I found his death date. This was my Fathers Fathers Brother, or my Fathers uncle Bill to put it another way. She also had another son who lived there who never married either. I have even seen Dads uncle Bill walking down Melbourne Road and I know he lived there. Mary's eldest offspring was Ernest. There are no other Ernests in the family anywhere. I dare bet fathers name was Ernest something or other! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chulla 4,946 Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 You cannot believe anything you see with regard to old 'official' records such as BMD certificates. My maternal grandfather's birth certificate has his surname as someone who died years before he was born, to whom his mother was not married. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Pianoman 1,535 Posted March 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 I guess what I have found here is something similar. I think that the statement in her death cert. 'widow of William Harvey' is a lie. 1911 she lived at 9 Blackstone Street Medders. Sometime after 1911 and probably 1930 when Melbourne Road was new she appeared on Melbourne Road with no fella and kids and told the locals she was a widow and she would get away with that story because no one around Aspley would know her. You can just imagine that she was lucky enough to find a man to marry who just happened to be named Harvey who was happy to take on her 8 bar stewards and also accept that she had had a 3 month jail sentence in 1907 for child neglect and whatever else I manage to find out. YEAH RIGHT! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
annswabey 599 Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 It was her son who said she was a widow.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Pianoman 1,535 Posted March 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 Yes I see that. He was probably involved in the cover up ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
annswabey 599 Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 Perhaps she told him his Dad had died young! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Pianoman 1,535 Posted March 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 This is amusing me. And after she told him his father died young she said 'Oh yes, and I forgot to put his name on your birth certificate', or, 'Sorry, I have lost your birth certificate, I hope you never need it!' Quote Link to post Share on other sites
annswabey 599 Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 Wouldn't be the first time! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Pianoman 1,535 Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 The plot thickens - the saga continues - I'm going to write a book! I now have my fathers parents marriage certificate. The fictitious(?) William Harvey has turned up again. If William Harvey was an invention as seems likely on Mary Harvey's death certificate he has turned up again and with the middle name CUMBERPATCH. Now how can you invent a name like that?! Everything else on here seems to be correct. I don't know who Samuel Riley might be Mary Frances Horton will be some relation of the bride as her mother was Ann Horton. It's a bit like I am dealing with two families here and don't know it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
annswabey 599 Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 There's a William Cumberpatch, age 36, PLATELAYER, living 3 Northcote Terrace on the 1901 census. If it's the same man, he appears aged 46 dahn Medders, living with his parents, single, in 1911. Perhaps the Harvey was added for respectability. His middle name may have been Jeyes (his mothers maiden name) and there's a poss death in Nottm, aged 61 in 1926 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Pianoman 1,535 Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Thanks. The Edward Harvey I have as my grandfather was born Feb 1894 and that is the birth certificate I have. I have just searched FreeBMD and have now found another Edward Harvey born June 1894 in Nottingham, but my sums are not that brilliant but I reckon that would make him 24 in April 1919 and not 25 as on the marriage cert. Is it possible to find someones correct date of birth from their military service number? I am 100% certain that I have the correct Edward Harvey on that marriage certificate as his military service number that is on it is the same number as stamped on his WW1 medals of which I am in possession. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
annswabey 599 Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 WW1 service records don't generally give date of birth but often give age in years and months at the time of their enlistment. Of course, lots of WW1 service records were destroyed in WW2, so they may not have survived anyway. Can you find the other Edward Harvey on a census, or a death for him? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Pianoman 1,535 Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I can only find one Edward Harvey died 1942 which I know is correct. According to Find My Past he was born 1895. More confusion I think Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Pianoman 1,535 Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I think the info you found on William Cumberpatch is a bit conclusive to be honest. Perhaps Mary liked younger men! Or perhaps he liked older women. Cumberpatch is a name I haven't heard of before so can't be common and I have just Googled its history and there is no evidence of it ever being used as a christian name. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
annswabey 599 Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I did the Cumberpatch search quite quickly, although it seems right. Might be worth getting that 1926 death cert to see if any clues - address and informant Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Pianoman 1,535 Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I found William Jeyes Cumberpatch born at Brixworth Northants in 1865. And a William Cumberpatch being married there in 1899. I find the same 1926 death dahnt Medders. Its giving me a headache! I am going start with a death and then birth cert for William Harvey (Dads Uncle Bill) of 93 Melbourne Road, and one or two other bits I know for sure. Birth certs for his siblings *might* reveal a named father. Imagine on this spot an emoticon of a pig flying! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
annswabey 599 Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 The marriage you found in 1899 is for a different man entirely. Agnes, the wife, appears to have died in 1962 and her husband William possibly in 1963. Might be worth a chance, getting those birth certs, although the missing emoticon might be appropriate! Perhaps their marriage certs might name him, though - well, if they all stuck to the same story...... No proof, of course, that he was actually the father Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlebro 234 Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Have you seen http://cumberbatch.one-name.net/getperson.php?personID=I3202&tree=001 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Pianoman 1,535 Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 As a matter of interest would my grandfather Edward Harvey's service number during WW2 be the same as his WW1 number? I know he was a reservist after the First War ended and so he was called up when WW2 broke out. He was in the 'phoney war' in France and came out of France at Dunkirk in 1940. He was injured in the evacuation and died of stomach cancer in 1942. It is believed that the cancer was caused by injuries received. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Pianoman 1,535 Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 #98. Thanks littlebro. No I hadn't seen it. I am thinking it might be worth getting in touch with the site owner Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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