The News

[poohbear 1,360]

Unfortunately due to the news from Iran, other stuff has taken a back burner...thieving MPs must think it's Christmas.

This old lady was battered to death for money...EVERY BONE IN HER FACE WAS BROKEN.

A bloke has been arrested...detectives say they have positive DNA evidence linking him with the murder.

Could somebody out there explain to me WHY he shouldn't be strung up instead of doing around ten years in the nick.

We spend 50 million a year protecting the Royals and God knows how much protecting MPs and other dignitaries no damn use to little old ladies who have to live in the real world.

To those of you against the death penalty...would you still feel that way if this was your Mum??

[firbeck 860]

Perhaps it was the murder's mum, you don't know the full story yet, there could be all sorts of mitigating circumstances.

We used to live opposite a very odd couple, mother and daughter. The daughter was in her 50's and had devoted her entire life to looking after her mother, with little reward. In the end the poor woman cracked up, strangled her mother, set fire to the house and took an overdose. The fire went out, her brother phoned me to find out what was happening, in conjunction with a neighbour we contacted the police who broke in. The daughter was subsequently revived and done for manslaughter. She was put away in an open prison, quite frankly she was a poor sad thing. She was allowed out one day, went down to the local beach, left a pile of clothes and drowned herself. A terrible tragedy for all concerned, should she have been topped, no way, she needed help, that obviously never happened.

[mariag 4]

Read a couple of days about the father who chucked himself and 2 kids (son died) over a balcony in greece 3 years back - he is now free and back over here..... on the thoughts back page of what he'd done there were mixed views on his return......

[poohbear 1,360]

Perhaps it was the murder's mum, you don't know the full story yet, there could be all sorts of mitigating circumstances.

Every bone in her face broken!!! 'mitigating circumstances' you gotta be joking

[BAZZER 10]

,, this story seems 'cut'n'dried',,,, But I always say "you need to hear the full story". Quite often, the "bleedin' obvious" is not quite so obvious in the end.

Not on the same level,

I had a couple staying in my hotel,,,, we were getting used to the noises fighting noises coming from their room,,,,, and on a couple of occasions I spoke to the guy at breakfast, telling him that we wouldn't put up with wife-beating & to pack it in.

A couple of nights later (about 1:30 a,m), the noise was so bad, with crashes and furniture shifting, that I had to intervene,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I was about to sling the bloke out,,,, but it was the little frail lady that was beating up the large husband,,,,

the poor sod used to just take it from her, regularly, & wouldn't even let on to me when I told him off.

My lady friend & I had a long chat (& dozens of cups of tea) with 'em, & it seems this lady knows she is doing this,,, for no reason,,, but can't control herself,,,,

& still the poor bloke puts up with it.

What started off with us thinking that the bloke was at fault, & me almost throwing him out, turned out to be a sad case, of a couple who loved each other dearly,,,,,,,, & putting up with a mental problem.

I wonder if they are still together,,,,, or indeed still alive !

[firbeck 860]

There was another incident on the news yesterday, it happened locally, at Sudbury, but made the big time as well. If you didn't catch it, a local Scout group were taking their young uns, Beavers, for a walk along the river, I know the place, it's a very pleasant open walk. Unfortunately, one six year old fell in and drowned, very, very sad, but who's going to get the blame, no doubt the leaders, but we don't know the circumstances yet, so it's not possible to speculate.

I'd like to say though, that I was a Scout Leader for 10 years and the increasingly irresponsible attitude of the kids ( and the parents ) was one of the main reasons for packing it in.

I recall two incidents that made me think.

We took a group of 'responsible' Scouts up Scaffell Pike, setting up camp half way up, then heading up to the summit. What happened, they just legged it back down the mountain, if you've ever been up there, its rocky and dangerous and these kids hadn't a clue what they were doing, but despite our calls and attempts at chasing after them, they took no notice, there was nothing we could do. We had visions of the newspaper headlines, Scout Leaders jailed for manslaughter, this was born out when we headed back down the slope, I found one group of idiots who had taken a wrong turning and were hanging over a precipice. Fortunately the weather was superb and we managed to get them all back safely, but it was a close run thing and we were behaving impeccably to the guide lines.

Later we took a group on a canal cruise in two narrow boats, 3 of us leaders were qualified ECC inland waterway skippers with lots of experience, we had our wives and girlfriends with us so the relationship to so-called older responsible Scouts was 2:1, did that make any difference, no, we had to watch them like hawks the whole time.

Then in a very deep lock, one idiot ignored what we had told him and attempted to jump between the boats, could we stop him, no, he ended up stuck in the water jammed between two frigging great steel narrow boats, luckily we got him out unscathed, but it was a tricky situation. That was the end for me, I found the kids attitudes increasingly bad and I wasn't going to get done for it, our main leader resigned and I stuck it out for a while but eventually packed it in, we couldn't take them anywhere because of their behaviour so there wasn't much point in carrying on, the group has since disbanded, really sad isn't it, but I'm afraid that non of us were prepared to take the consequences of the kids stupidity.

[mick2me 3,033]

The drowning incident, there were adequate staff to child ratio at current guidlines.

But perhaps that should change to 1/1? With hands being held at all times?

Its always got to be someone elses fault, never the parent.

Recently a child was killed at a local DIY store, when a stack of doors fell on top of him(or her?)

Now you will see warning notices everywhere, and still kids running amuk.

We stayed at the same hotel in Orlando for some years.

It had a fantastic open pool and jacuzzi, set in great landscaped area in the middle of the hotel with palm trees.

Then one year a fence appeared round both pool and jacuzzi. Result of some kid drowning somewhere in the US.

As a result of a parent using the pool, and not keeping an eye on their kid. Bett the sued they ass off the hotel chain!

BEFORE

AFTER

[firbeck 860]

The parents could be horrific and we knew it. We took the kids off to the big international Jamboree at Walton on the Naze one year. They were all happily jumping up and down on the bouncy castle and we nipped in the cafe to get a cup of coffee. Typical, disaster struck while our backs were turned for a second, one of the kids had been obliterated by an enormous Girl Guide and had to be rushed off to the medical centre in an ambulance. It turned out to be my son!!! He was quite badly hurt, suffering a broken nose and severe bruising, he was only ten at the time and was in a state of shock as well. When I got over to the medical centre, the Scouting authorities were absolutely crapping themselves as to what the consequences of all this were going to be, they were so relieved to find out that I was the dad, and I accepted it as one of those things, so did my son, even so, I had to fill out a multitude of forms that I told them to chuck in the bin. In the end, I took him to Clacton hospital for a check up and we found ourselves sitting next to one of the American Scout leaders who'd slipped and broke his ankle, he just happened to be a genuine Cheyenne Indian Chief, boy did that make my sons day, he reckoned it was worth the damage just to meet him.

Yes, my son did not whinge and whine and carried on afterwards, despite looking as if he'd gone through a few rounds with Mike Tyson, but had it happened to some of the other kids, the consequences could have been dire.

Another great Scouting tradition, the self sufficient camp. You take the senior scouts off to one of the scouting outdoor centres, where they are safe and have every facility, then you leave them to it for the weekend. The object of the exercise is to make sure that they can be self reliant, they have to cook, organise their own activities and organise their own camp. To ensure that nothing goes wrong, a couple of us leaders camp within sight of them, though several hundred metres away and try to have nothing to do with them, which is difficult.

The last time we did it, it was a Cup Final weekend and we set up a telly outside our tent, sunbathed in the glorious heat and had a very nice time thank you very much. They only came down to see us once and everything seemed to be going well.

When we got back, an irate mother demanded to see us, according to her, her precious son, a known pratt, had alledgedly been bullied, it was a case of being hauled in front of a Scout tribunal at the threat of losing our positions and being subjected to a right grilling with the bitch mother putting her twopenneth in, it wasn't pleasant. Fortunately, as the deputy chairman of the local school PTA, I had insider information on this kid and could prove what a lying little git he was, she was also a lying pretty eyelid flashing cow, determined to defend her tosser of a son, but I got the school to back me up and she failed miserably. Thing is, had I not got such a relationship with the school, we could have been in big trouble.

You devote your free time, voluntarily to helping these kids, and some of the parents, who do nothing to help, just try and question everything you do, they know better, OK, right, then do something to help instead of moaning.

The story of our peadophile infiltrator is even more alarming, you'd be interested in that one, and how he was dealt with, once again, another innocent Scout Leader had to suffer the consequences, why did we ever bother.

[poohbear 1,360]

Exactly...why bother??

If all teachers,scout leaders etc got together and said "No more" maybe the stupid politicians would ammend the laws which allow the ambulance chasers to make fortunes.

No matter how hard you try kids will die on field trips and the like...it's impossible to guarantee the safety of anybody anywhere.Take every precaution, yes...but accidents will always happen.Especially with kids now, who have no idea what discipline is, and will ignore the safety tips given by what 40 years ago were their 'elders and betters'

[plantfit 7,638]

I agree, why bother? but what you have to remember is the teachers and scout leaders etc are sometimes the only adults who show these kids some respect, I don't mean this "street respect" crap I mean the proper respect whereby you get respect back from the kids and it's thanks to people like firbeck and other leaders of these movements that most of our kids grow up to be normal and respectful and useful members of the community

Rog

[firbeck 860]

Quite right Rog, thing is, I loved my time working with the kids, I'd do it again tomorrow, it became a way of life, I had some incredible adventures which most people never experience, sailing a massive Edwardian ketch in the Blackwater Estuary, sleeping rough in the Lyme Regis Great Landslip, firing off a Hechler and Koch automatic at the MOD shooting ranges, etc, etc, but you found yourself looking over your shoulder as well, which wasn't right.

I noted on Ceefax this morning that teachers are rebelling against H & S at schools, they reckon it's ruining childrens lives, I go along with that. Apparently they have to consult a five page document everytime a kid uses a bloody Pritstick tube of paper glue, and if a kid puts up a poster, he/she has to wear safety goggles, what sort of natural development is that!!!!

When I was involved with my sons junior school at Finchingfield I got very into it. The football team hadn't won a match for years, so I took over as coach. First match, they were beating the top local team 3-0, our kids were going mad and singing supportive songs, not allowed, our head laid down the rules as per ECC, you have to respect the opposing team, b@ll@cks, competition not allowed, so whats the point, they were supposed to appologise for winning at the end of it, over my dead body.

Then the ECC insisted that girls be involved in the football team, hmmmmm, but all our girls wanted to do was flutter their eyelids at the boys that they fancied, but I was required to put them in the team, can't have sexism even if they were crap and clueless, that was the end for me.

Next one, cricket, a sport totally neglected in this area. Ok, I'll be school cricket coach. I bought at my own expense proper junior cricket gear, pads, gloves, and a leather ball, small and soft, but just to give them a taster, I also got permission to use the local cricket pitch.

Not allowed, had to use ECC plastic stumps on a base with a PLASTIC FOAM BALL. What was that going to teach them, what a waste of time, I gave that one up.

Next, swimming instructor, my god, when I took that one up, fear and loathing, the kids should really have worn life jackets and be tied to the side with a piece of rope. My real role was to ensure that the boys weren't sexually harrased in the changing rooms, as if.......

Hard going, but I persevered, well not really, you can only take so much and when you find that you can end up in prison for voluntarily helping kids, theres no point in carrying on is there.

Has anyone else on here had to put up with this, any Scout leaders or Youth workers, I'd like to hear your stories.