... 1,411 Posted November 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 BILBORO LAD i want to ask you a question and iwant you to answer it.If one person from this site with no family historyof prostate cancer went to the doctors anyway and asked for apsa blood test and from the resuls from that went on to havesurgery to remove a cancer that was aggressive and threatening to break out of his prostate and spread throughout his body and went on to surviveand live a relativly normal life i believe this could happen and as other people have witnessed has happened WOULD YOU SAY THAT THERE WAS A CASE FOR ATLEAST HAVING A PSA TEST REGARLESS OF WHAT PEOPLE DECIDED TO DO WITH THE RESULTS OR ADVICE. We know that different people will make different decisions has to where they go with those results and advice .please just answer what i have put in caapitals. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bilboro-lad 294 Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 No. It's a non sequitur. It's like saying:"I won the lottery last week. If you buy a ticket you'll win the lottery this week" What matters is the combined experiences of tens of thousands of people collated and studied by experts in their field. That is scientific study. What they have found so far is that on average a man will live for 17 years after prostate cancer is diagnosed. Considering that the average life span for a man is 81 - 17 = 64. So if you are in your 70s the likelihood is you'll die with the disease and not of the disease. Testing people at random before the age of 64 is not considered good practice because of the sheer number of tests you must do to find one that is positive. Then you have the problems associated with biopsy such as incontinence, erectile dysfunction, infection etc. All in all it causes more problems than it cures - hence no random testing. Your case was different. You were losing weight. Your brother had been diagnosed with prostate cancer. In my case we have no incidence of any cancer on either side of the family - so why should I take the risk on a procedure that is woefully inaccurate? Take a look at the NHS websites and cancer research website - neither agree with what you propose. You were unlucky. You won the lottery you didn't want to win - but it doesn't follow that I'll win it too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
... 1,411 Posted November 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 THERE YOU GO MY FRIEND THERES NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT THEN IS THERE AFTER ALL THAT HUFFING AND PUFFING YOU AGREE YOU HAVE HAD BIGGER OPERATIONS THAN THAT LITTLE ONE I HAD FUNNY REALLY WHY THEY SHOULD PRODUCE ALL THAT MATERIAL YOU HAVE QUOTED NON OF WHICH REFERS TO A LITTLE OPERATION HOWEVER YOU SEEM T TO BE AN EXPERT ON THINGS YOU HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED.Bilboro lad i am genuinely sorry that you have had to have major surgery and i genuinely hope you are fully recovered and no i am not being sarcastic but there wont be many people that have not had some form of ill health and i still want to be able to have debates with you and everyone else for as long as i can which is why i wont give up on this subject until caancer is curable completely .Happy Christmas to you and your family if you have had major surgery they will be aspecially happy to have you around. regards ANDY Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bilboro-lad 294 Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 It was 12 years ago. Major spinal surgery. Three operations, six weeks in QMC, MRSA, only just survived but I'm ok now. Good luck with your current problems, I'm sure it'll all work out in the end. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
... 1,411 Posted November 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Can i just tell you that THERE WAS NO HISTORY OF CANCER IN MY FAMILY ther 18 months between me and my brother he being older he was diognosed through a routine psa test as part of a private medical check up that involved other things like diabetes i would not normally tell my doctor i had lost weight i would not normally tell my doctor iwas tired you see already 2 lives were saved through an initial psa i happen to think those lives were worth saving incidently i hope you are wrong because every 3 months i have to rely on psa to see if i am going to be ok for the next 3 months which if it is right what you are saying i meres well not bother nor thosands yes thousands like me .Also before surgery my psa was7 and rising after surgery itwas 0.004 PSA HAD DETECTED ARISE BEFORE SURGERY AND A MASSIVE DROP AFTER SURGERY ISNT THAT THE POINT AND WHATS THE ALTERNATIVE PRAY WE DONT WIN THE LOTTERY . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
... 1,411 Posted November 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 BILBORO LADTHANKS FOR THAT IT HELPS ME UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE SAY WHAT THEY SAY BELIEVE ME MATE ME AND MY BROTHER RESEARCHED AS MUCH AS WE COULD WHICH IS WHY I HAD KEYHOLE SURGERY AT NOTTINGHAM CITY RATHER THAN OPEN SURGERY AT DERBY WHERE I NOW LIVE ALL ADVICE WAS INFECTIONWAS THE BIGGIE ABOVE ALL ELSE THERE WAS A CHART OF CLEAN HOSPITALS NOTTINGHAM CITY WAS ONE OF BEST AT THAT TIME .PSA ISA STARTING POINT MAJOR DECISIONS ARE MADE ON OTHER THINGS BUT WITHOUT PSA YOU ARE IGNORANT OF ANY PROBLEMS OR COULD ANSWER WHY YOU ACHE RATHER THAN LEAVING THAT ACHE AND PUTTING IT DOWN TO AGE.WHICH I WOULD HAVE DONE IF IT WASNNT FOR MY BROTHER. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
... 1,411 Posted November 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 OH you are a pain in the rs but i am really glad you are ok make sureyou havea good christmas because it sounds like you have been through the mill a bit. early but what the heck happy christmas everybody Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OLDACE 196 Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Bilboro, I am due to have a PSA test in two weeks, are you suggesting that I ignore the wishes of the urological cancer specialists who advised me to have the quarterly tests? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hippo girl 1,995 Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Oldace, hope everything goes well for you....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OLDACE 196 Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Thanks Hippo girl, it's just a routine test, but I am always a little anxious when I phone for the result. A Charlesworth will understand the feeling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
... 1,411 Posted November 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Too right oldace should have had my results this week but they forgot to send my letter so extended 3 week wait but has long as we are here waiting we are ok oldace let me know how you get on mate i am sure everything will be fine all the best Andy . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bilboro-lad 294 Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Oldace. Are you suggesting that the general population have quarterly tests? If not - what are you banging on about? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
... 1,411 Posted November 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Bilborolad when you had your op did you grt to chose which hospital you used i did you seem pretty ok with the NHS under the circumstances i dont know if i would be so understanding also did you get to see thehospital hygene both nottingham hospitals came out pretty high the staffordshie hospital came out very poor and was closed down some time later .Oldace .was there any issues in scotland with infections they would not let me out until i proved my waterworks were working that was to do with infections. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bilboro-lad 294 Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 They won't let you out until you can wee to prove that you KIDNEYS are working. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
... 1,411 Posted November 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 nO BILBORO LAD IT WAS DEFINATELY ABOUT INFECTION Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulus 541 Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 nO BILBORO LAD IT WAS DEFINATELY ABOUT INFECTION Mr charlesworth, no need for capitals, unless of course you're 'shouting' at us?......................... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bilboro-lad 294 Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 I think you need to read up about how your kidneys work. Nowt to do with infection. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OLDACE 196 Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 A Charlesworth, I was given anti-biotic injections after the op, I think that happens with any op. I was sent home with oral anti-biotics and a catheter in place. (this led to a hilarious episode with airport security when I returned to Aberdeen for it's removal). Hygiene at A.R.I. was good, particularly in the surgical wards. I don't think there is much point arguing about PSA testing with Bilboro-lad, someone who just gets his information from the internet. You and I have had many face to face conversations with the specialists, we know about Gleason scores, we know about the possibility of recurrent illness with Type T2 tumours, we know about the treatments for recurrent prostate cancer. We, along with many thousands of others, know about being told that we have cancer. You and I have experienced the surgery and the procedures that follow the surgery, and all we are trying to do is offer advice that may prevent others going through what we have gone through, and it may even save someones life. I hope your test result is less than 0.01, and remains so. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bilboro-lad 294 Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 The funny thing is though - your specialists are the people who do NOT advocate random testing for the populace. You are arguing against THEM not against ME. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulus 541 Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 STOP SHOUTING!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dunkirkduck 16 Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 If screening was advantageous, then like breast and cervical screening, it would be done. Apparently that isn't the case with prostate cancer. Most of us die with and not of it. hmm... not sure about that. I had a dear friend die of prostate cancer last April after fighting it for six years, and my friend's father has just been give three months left due to pc, too. Guys, get checked out, don't ignore th op's message. Better safe than sorry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stan 386 Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 The funny thing is though - your specialists are the people who do NOT advocate random testing for the populace. You are arguing against THEM not against ME. The Government will ALWAYS go for the cheapest option. Speaking personally I always get a PSA together with a batch of other screening tests every year. Chest X-ray every 3 years unless symptoms warrant sooner. Eternity is a long time,I think it's a good thing to put it off as long as possible with the aid of a few simple tests. The British NHS is the absolute pits they do everything not to spend money wisely,so will try to fob off effective screening. The classic is the pap smear rules. Fortune has given us the vaccine which should make cervical cancer history.(thanks to another brilliant piece of Australian based research.) I await with interest further viral trigger factors in relation to prostate cancer and research into underlying genetic factors. I found it interesting that Michael Douglas` throat cancer was linked to the same virus that triggers cervical cancer.(?universal male vaccination also?) Australia punches so much above its weight in medical care and research. One of the reasons I would not wish to live in the UK--as much as I love England. (the NHS). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bilboro-lad 294 Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Well show me an Australian website that says random PSA testing is a good idea. Just one will do. As far as the cheapest option goes, well bowel cancer screening is more expensive so why is that done? PSA is a simple blood test and probably the cheapest of all cancer testing as it can be tagged on to any other blood test that you might have. The reason it isn't done is that it is too unreliable. The people that tell the government that are the cancer specialists that you are talking to in the hospital. Stop being your own physician and listen to what the real doctors are telling you. "Tests aimed at helping diagnose prostate cancer are available. However, there is no national screening program in place, with current evidence showing that the PSA test is not suitable for population screening as the harms outweigh the benefits. " http://www.cancer.org.au/policy-and-advocacy/position-statements/prostate-cancer.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
... 1,411 Posted November 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 I used capitals cos to lazy to switch off i bow to your superior knowledge on kidneys by the way what was that test called discoveredby ozzies that cured my ulcers i am asking quietly HONEST.tell you what that was brilliant course of medication and were gone camera down throat was worse thing but alot better than surgery.I know nothing about medcine other than what i have experienced and what i was told by doctors and surgeon i was told that pc was one of the biggest killers in men and 6 in 10 men suffer some kind of prostate problems not all pc al over the walls at nottingham and derby and it seems oldface says scotland are posters telling men to get checked i was amaed at the level that it affected men the hospital hove wrote to me to go to a open to discuss advances which is all part of a awareness campane i cant argue with anyone about medcine because i know jack shit but wheni am told that men are dying un nessarilly because they wont get tested i felt that i should tell men to get tested i do find it very interesting to hear the massive difference in opinion about testing anyone visiting hospital should go into urology department and witness what i in england and oldace in scotland have witnessed and on the other hand bilboro ladsays thatsall B//////S hes read different could we have discovered through this confusion lies the answer to why men dont bother and die incidently how do aussies detect prostate cancer .. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stan 386 Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Saving lives But Australian advocates of the test say the Task Force has misread the evidence and are concerned it's "sending the wrong message". They say if asymptomatic men as early as age 40 are tested this will help pick up prostate cancer at an early and treatable stage. According to the Prostate Cancer Foundation of Australia around two-thirds of Australian men aged 40 to 74 have been given the Medicare-covered PSA test. He says testing will prevent 600 of the 3300 prostate cancer deaths expected this year. "We must do some test to save patients' lives," says Dr Peter Ruthven, president of the Urological Society of Australian and New Zealand, whose members are involved in treating patients with prostate cancer. He notes the Task Force did not have any urologists on it. Ruthven says if biopsies show a PSA-detected cancer is slow growing urologists now suggest it be actively monitored rather than routinely removed. The Task Force estimates 90 per cent of men with PSA-detected prostate cancer undergo early treatment But Ruthven says around 50 per cent of patients with such cancer still end up choosing treatment because they prefer to know the cancer has gone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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