Any Old Pit Lads!

[plantfit 7,601]

Piggy and Babs,

Quite right too, my dad was down Wollaton pit all that time (sadly both no longer with us) hard graft from what he told me, sometimes working in 18" coal seems.

There was mention of them some time back on BBC 4 along with the railway men who also helped keep the country going

Rog

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

The Bevin Boys had no choice in the matter, when they received their "call up papers" it was either report to a military base or to a colliery, not a matter of being a coward. Some managed to get out the pits and continue to the military as they genuinely had a fear of going underground and took a stand with the risk of prison.

The Bevin Boys scheme was also an utter failure, even Bevin admitted that after the industry was nationalised on Jan 1st 1947. It never raised even half the men required for the wartime effort. The government should have labled the industry "essential" under the wartime acts, then no mineworker would have been able to leave. Trouble was, nobody in Parliament foresaw that the industry was vital for the war effort, ie coal for railways, power stations, steelworks, factory steam raising plant and heating fuels. Typical short sightedness of politicians though.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Piggy and Babs,

Quite right too, my dad was down Wollaton pit all that time (sadly both no longer with us) hard graft from what he told me, sometimes working in 18" coal seems.

There was mention of them some time back on BBC 4 along with the railway men who also helped keep the country going

Rog

Rog, are you sure about the 18 inch seams at Wollaton?? I know Bestwood worked a thin seam down to 18 inches, but doubt Wollaton or Radford did.

Wollaton worked the Deep Soft seam, about 6-7 feet thick, Deep Hard 5-6 feet thick and going down to 48 inches, Tupton around 4 feet and then Piper 3-4 feet thick. I don't recall reading of any other seams they worked. I don't think they touched the Top Hard seam, to close to the surface, that would have been 8 feet thick.

[plantfit 7,601]

Could be mistaken John, I remember him on about 18" seams, could they have been at Clifton or some development faces? (or was it more tall stories from the colliers?)

Rog

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

There was a seam called the Dunsil seam, although I don't know if any south Notts pits ever worked it, it would have been about 24 inches thick with a fireclay band through the middle of it. I recall about half way down the Stone Head Drift it had been "hewed" out for a short distance, I wonder if he was on that job?? It was never worked commercially around the City as it had a sandstone roof and floor and probably would have been too dangerous using wood props, plus having sandstone to drive through for the roads would have cost a lot more than the coal and fireclay was worth.

Here's some facts about Clifton's seams in the shafts, Coombe seam 32 inches at 190ft 8ins, Top Hard 71ins at 219ft 8 ins, Dunsil seam, 36ins at 292ft 3ins, Waterloo Seam, not sure if it was the no1 or no2 Waterloo, 39ins at 319ft 6ins, Deep Soft seam, 60ins at 727ft 9ins, Deep Hard 67ins at 770ft 1 inch, Piper 40 ins at 810ft. Now on the other side of the major fault to the south, seam thicknesses are different again. Try well over six foot for the Deep Hard seam, and all seams got thinner towards the south east side of the pit, 41's face in Deep Hard was just over 42 ins thick, and to the far south west was over 60 inches!!

Wollaton seams passed through in one of the shafts, High Hazel or Coombe or Cinderhill, 24 inches at 27ft 2ins, Top Hard 62 inches at 38ft 4ins, Dunsil 23ins at 87ft 7ins, 1st Waterloo 34 inches at 14ft 1inch, 2nd Waterloo 32 inches at 192ft 3ins, 2nd Ell 20inches at 354ft 8ins, Deep Soft 36ins at 554ft 9ins, Deep Hard 58inches at 594ft 2 inches, 1st Piper 24 inches at 625ft 9inches. Now I know the Piper seam was thicker than 24 inches at Wollaton as it was worked towards it's closure with trepanners and AB16 shearers and 24 inches isn't enough room for those machines in height. So it probably thickened out to the south of the shafts.

[mick2me 3,033]

Is there a map showing local pit workings?

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Only abandonment plans Mick, which are overlaid with a surface map. My plans are to scan the Clifton and Cotgrave plans and post them on my site as I rebuild it. The Clifton ones show the most southerly workings of Wollaton, the last few longwalls under the University.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

In this plan are the most southerly workings if Wollaton under the University and to the south old workings going back to the beginning of the last century of Clifton colliery.

[piggy and babs 544]

The Bevin Boys had no choice in the matter, when they received their "call up papers" it was either report to a military base or to a colliery, not a matter of being a coward. Some managed to get out the pits and continue to the military as they genuinely had a fear of going underground and took a stand with the risk of prison.

The Bevin Boys scheme was also an utter failure, even Bevin admitted that after the industry was nationalised on Jan 1st 1947. It never raised even half the men required for the wartime effort. The government should have labled the industry "essential" under the wartime acts, then no mineworker would have been able to leave. Trouble was, nobody in Parliament foresaw that the industry was vital for the war effort, ie coal for railways, power stations, steelworks, factory steam raising plant and heating fuels. Typical short sightedness of politicians though.

Hi Ayupmeduck

I did not mean the BEVAN BOYS, were cowards I have read up quite a lot on the history of bevin boys and mining in general. What I was talking about was the miners who stayed in the mines being called cowards for not going to war but staying in there own jobs to help keep the industries going my dad told me a couple of stories about this before he died. Being caled a coward and raking in the money from the overtime i say the earned every penny they got and lot more besides

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

I don't recall the dates the coal mining industry was labled an essential industry, but think it was around 1942/3 approx. After that NO mineworker was allowed to leave the industry under threat of a term of hard labour in HM's custody!

I worked with a feller, actually him and his mate who did their damnedest to sign up, and when asked where they worked were told by the recruiting office to pee off and DON'T come back again. That was the army! Next stop was the RAF recruitment office, same happened again. So off they went to the Navy offices, and lied about where they worked. Didn't work, they got called to the Managers office at Clifton Colliery and were "dressed down" They were told they were in the mining industry until HM government said otherwise!

Anyway, Tommy and his mate persisted and eventually were given dispensation, they got themselves in the Navy and returned to Clifton after demob in 1945 or 6, can't recall the dates now.

Tommy, God rest his soul, was one of life's true gentlemen, I was an apprentice and was working under him for a while. I was into reading books heavily and was reading Malta Story, about the convoys supplying Malta with aviation fuel and supplies under German blockade. I was telling Tommy about it when he told me, "I was there on those convoys!! I had two ships blown out from under me by German torpedoes" That's when he related how he got there.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Back in the 30's and 40's it was far safer to be a serviceman than a mine worker, odds on getting seriously injured or killed were greater for anyone working underground than defusing unexploded bombs!! Only with the advent of Nationalisation did safety improve and conditions improve for the average mine worker. Most serious accidents after 1947 were due to production pressures on Colliery Managers by Divisional Managers of the NCB.

[Ashley 288]

"odds on getting seriously injured or killed were greater for anyone working underground than defusing unexploded bombs!!" Not sure about that, average "working life" of a bomb disposal officer was 10 weeks at height of blitz, Non officers had better odds but even so risky, my uncle then aged 19 returned to London after leave and the whole unit wiped out, He was one of the 6 who carried the officers coffin and said he could of carried it himself as empty! Know what you mean though

Wasn't just miners who had to work where told, and not only in the war, my dad was at Nottingham and Newport Wales gun factories through the war and in 1946 made redundant, when "powers that be" found he was later working at Petite Typewriters they said he had to leave and work at Derby Loco works, didn't fancy the daily travel or heavy work so took alternative of 2 years in Army, spent most of that laying in the Malta sun after daily oiling of AA guns!

Uncle is the tall chappie on right without a cap, photo took in london 1941

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Back in those days accident rates were very high in coal mining Ashley. If you check back through the records even MP's were bringing the war time colliery accident rates up in Parliament. Clifton is mentioned a few times in Hansard during the wartime years with a few fatalities and serious accidents. Too many corners were being cut for the sake of a few extra tons.

[Ashley 288]

Yes, didn't intend to sound dismissive of such, Mining was/is always a dangerous job and I guess even more so in times past? certainly true of the railways as in 1938 there were 622 killed on such, but believe it or not same year there were 8,172 killed on the roads in this country! What's the saying? Life was cheap

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Life indeed was cheap, old mine owners worried more about the loss of a good pony, ponies cost money! boys, girls men and women were cheap and plentiful, and if anything happened to hurt or maim them, they could be easily replaced by some other unfortunate soul.

There were many years where over 1000 "employees" lost their lives in British coal mines! I use employees as some of the headstones read " a girls name, aged 5 years" Shocking to us today!

Today we keep reading of loss of lives in coal mines, China's an example, with just a couple of years back, over 6000 a year needlessly dieing underground, figures probably higher as it's been proved local officials of the party don't report a lot of accidents for fear of their own lives.

[mataspley 0]

have you got a link to your website ayupmeducks?? would be interested to see where the coal seams ran...had a house near wollaton pit at franklyn gdns that suffered from subsidence and now live at moorgreen near the old moorgreen watnall and i think it was london pits and this house has also suffered.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

I don't have the abandonment plans for Wollaton and Moorgreen Collieries, some of Wollatons southern workings are on the Clifton Colliery abandonment plans.

You can go up to the Coal Authority at Berry Hill in Mansfield and view those plans, they are open to the public during business hours. Do a "google" for the "Coal Authority" and you will find their site, their telephone number, business hours and street address are on the site.

[mataspley 0]

ok mate ta. !cheers!

[radfordred 6,284]

An old documentary made in 1948 about Gedling Colliery in Nottinghamshire, one of the deepest pits in the region

[mick2me 3,033]

Great video Red, which led me to this one

[BulwellBrian 107]

Shows how big the coal was before mechanisation.

[mick2me 3,033]

Yes some of the pieces are as big as those guys heads

[mick2me 3,033]

I'll fix the smiley emoticon later?

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

The machine being tested at the beginning of that video, is the Meco-Moore Slicer Loader, it was the first power loading machine in coal mining. It started it's life in the 1930's, it evolved over the years from a cyclic machine to a "continuous" longwall cutter loader. It was superseded in the 1950's by the trepanner then the shearer, which took the place of both machines.

Ironically, out of all the thousands of Meco-Moore's made, not one single machine exists today. Although, I did receive an email that one is buried under a load of steel at Joy Manufacturing's factory in the Midlands, not been confirmed by anyone, and never received a reply to my email to Joy.

Shame, as I'm sure one of the mining museums would take it, if it exists.

Another point, the fitter in that video scared the crap out of me getting so close to those cutting jibs while the machine was running....

[De Da Pete 31]

My fathe rcame over from Hungary, in the 50's I imagine, and Worked down Gedling pit. His name was Michael Dome. a long shot anyone remembers, Lived in west Bridgeford. I used to see all the retired, redundant miners on benches in every villiage. Don't tend to see them anymore so sad.