Long Gone Railways

[Ashley 288]

Have put this in 1960's as that's when most vanished. I am seeking info on The Great Northern Lines in the northern suburbs to the west of Bagthorpe junction esp after the old Cinderhill Road bridge up to Kimberley Station, it's route in relation to today's roads etc, also the route of the Midland line after it's Cinderhill Rd bridge. Obviously any photos or info on where to see most welcome, thanks

[teebee 8]

Not much of a Railways expert, so not sure whether these will be what you are looking for or of any help.

But do have a few pictures of what I think is the GNR route on two pages of my site.

Could be worth a check - click signature and check the Bulwell Common page and the Picture /Bygones pages

Hope they are some use.

[Beefsteak 305]

Rob237 is your man for railways , we have had a few threads regarding defunct lines in and around Nott'm , use the search option (Top right)

[plantfit 7,597]

Ayup Ashley,

Checkout "websites about old Nottingham" at the top of the page, plenty of interesting stuff on there

Rog

[firbeck 859]

Have put this in 1960's as that's when most vanished. I am seeking info on The Great Northern Lines in the northern suburbs to the west of Bagthorpe junction esp after the old Cinderhill Road bridge up to Kimberley Station, it's route in relation to today's roads etc, also the route of the Midland line after it's Cinderhill Rd bridge. Obviously any photos or info on where to see most welcome, thanks

An interesting one. I try and trace routes of old railways on Google Earth, in this case, it's extremely difficult. I started from Kimberley GN station, still there I think, and worked east, it's ok till you get to the Bulwell bypass then all trace has gone. You can just about work out where Bagthorpe junction was, but only because I knew where it branched off, I believe one of the original bridges is still there.

The Midland line is the same, starting again at the old station, is it still there? I worked east but the trail ran out at Bulwell bypass again.

What is that wierd structure between the course of the 2 railways alongside the Bulwell bypass, above Nuthall roundabout, I thought it was something to do with Hucknall, it looks like a testing site for Saddam Husseins supergun.

In the mid 60's we used to try and walk or cycle the routes of the abandoned railways. I recall succesfully negotiating the whole of the route of the Midland line to Kimberley, finding the bunker at Watnall and going through the tunnel which is now blocked up. The bridge near the brewery still had the original Midland cast number plate on it which is now displayed in my shed, a long way from home.

We only partly walked the GN route, I recall there were sidings next to the junction north of Nuthall where the brickworks line branched off, which you can still see on Google Earth.

We walked the entire Pinxton branch after it had been abandoned, including crossing Awsworth Viaduct, rescueing GN bridge number 1 off it which is also in the shed along with various artifacts including posters, handbills and signs from Awsworth and Eastwood, both places of which had been wrecked and vandalised even back then.

It was a sad period in the mid 60's, seeing all these lines abandoned and left, the stations, goods sheds and signal boxes being allowed to be smashed to pieces and all those treasures lost, well, not all of them, a lot of the history of our local lines resides in my shed.

[denshaw 2,872]

The weird structure is a new cemetery.

Den.

[Ashley 288]

Bagthorpe Junction covered a lot of ground joining the GNR to the GCR, not sure which remaining bridge you refer to though? (Lets have some more bridges still standing?) The Kimberley Stations are still there far as I know, the Midland one used to be a British Legion or similar club, in the bar you were actually standing on the down (to Derby) platform with the stanchions that held the roof still there, but now I think closed and wrecked? tunnel has been filled in. The area where you lot track of the lines is the one where I do too! but not sure what you mean by "Bulwell bypass above the Nuthall Roundabout" or what road it is? Thinking about it I've no idea where the Midland after it crossed Cinderhill Road (I think the Bull, ex Bull and Butcher pub if still up? is built on site of bridge?) went, neither by old roads or new ones

[rob237 89]

I was also confused by the Bagthorpe Jct bridges posting...

There were two on Arnold Road - one carrying the GC over, adjacent to the lower rathole tunnel mouth which went beneath Arnold Road about 70 yards to the north of the GC overbridge and another Arnold Road overbridge around 100 yards down which carried the GN, as it began its descending left curve around to Basford North.

Also the GC Valley Road overbridge, south of Bagthorpe Jct...can't think of any others which were adjacent.

Evidence of all these three overbridges should still be vaguely discernable.

Can recall that the GN line went west of Cinderhill Road on a high, straightish embankment and then swept leftwards (perhaps around where today's M1 would have intersected) to pass under the Greasley/Watnall Road by means of a short tunnel (almost beneath the Watnall Road bakery site) and then into Kimberley Station.

All rather confirmed by comparing my 1921 OS Map with the 1970 version...

Cheers

Robt P.

[rob237 89]

Again according to my 1921 OS Map, the Midland crossed Cinderhill Road just north of Springhead (former NCB Medical Offices) at around where the prefabs' end, then passed Crabtree Farm/Blenheim before beginning a long left hand sweep due north of Sellars Wood (seemingly on the line of today's by-pass?) then westward via Watnall Cantelupe until it closed upon the GN by today's High Spannia road...then almost parallel (but perhaps 300 yards to the north of) the GN until it curved southward on to the Midland main line a few yards above the main LMR passing beneath the GN on it's Bennerley Viaduct.

Less familiar with this line than the GN, so can't be more precise.

Cheers

Robt P.

[Ashley 288]

Hi rob, there were several road over bridges around bagthorpe in later years, 1 on Park Lane, 1 on Brooklyn Rd, 1 on Kersall Drive, There was of course the GCR main line overbridge crossing Arnold Road as well. I must confess I never saw the MR bridge over Cinderhill Rd but walked on route back of Highbury Hospital to Bulwell pre tram marlarky and was guessing re the Bull pub mention (looking at old trackbed route and gaps in old buildings where it may have crossed leen and road) Can trace on google maps route of GNR from virtually opp Hempsill Lane jnct with Low Wood Rd to watnall, around watnall/kimberley I knew route etc having walked such, I'm jumping back and forward between reading your post, writing this, and looking at map! but have now tracked via google the Midland route back from "the bunker" to Camberley Rd, after that a bit lost but guess Sellars Wood Rd area back to Cinderhill Rd? looking at sat map down from Haswell Rd on other side of Cinderhill Rd near footbridge over tram line/RHood etc is a prominent white building, can well imagine that built on run of the line? Old missing railway routes can sometimes be traced by footpath routes, official or otherwise, certainly the case with the GNR as have cycled/walked from old Daybrook station to GartonClose/Cinderhill Rd without using "roads" true you cross such but there always seems a little jitty or access you can get through without trespassing etc, am pretty sure you can still get Daybrook to Mapperley tunnel too

[firbeck 859]

With regard to Bagthorpe Junction, I left Nottingham 30 years ago and my memory of road names is dreadful. About 18 months ago I drove around the city and it's surrounds trying to trace old bits from memory. I went up Arnold Road and came across a bridge parapet over nothing, from memory and my 60's cycling days, I came to the conclusion that this was the remains of the bridge over the GCR and that the metropolis of Bagthorpe junction was underneath the rest of the immediate area, incredible how these things can so easily vanish. I am determined to dig out my old maps and notes and give the place a good going over, I doubt whether my son up there will be impressed, but who knows, I gave him a bit of a history lesson on the phone yesterday and he seems keen for me to go up and give him and his mates a city tour, but what do I know anymore, it's all changed so much.

Slight change of geography, but not so far removed. Did anyone see railway night on BBC4 last thursday, thought it was great, all of it.

Thing was, the delectable Julia Bradbury went and traced the route of the old Midland line from Bakewell through Millers Dale to Blackwell. It was great, sad to see the remains of a once important route and sad to see the tunnels all closed off. I recall my last trip up that line on a special to Belle Vue Zoo from Nottm Midland, hauled by a Class 5, head out the window all the way. We went Youth Hostelling up there in the mid 60's when the line was still open and tried to follow the route as best we could, we ended up catching the 4 wheeled German railbus from Millers Dale station to Buxton, bumpy, but interesting.

Look out for it on a thursday night, BBC4, a series of 6 programmes with Julia walking abandoned railways, I don't know which one's they are, but if the first one is anything to go by, I thought it was pretty good for that sort of mass TV thing, I'm just upset she didn't invite me along.

[Ashley 288]

The GCR went OVER Arnold Road, the only road over railway bridges on Arnold Rd were the one over the GNR mainlines, another over the single track GNR to GCR from the rathole and the still there bridge over unofficial footpath that used to be the GNR Leen valley lines to and from Bulwell Forest Station and beyond the other side of Hucknall Rd

[rob237 89]

...Thing was, the delectable Julia Bradbury went and traced the route of the old Midland line from Bakewell through Millers Dale to Blackwell....

I also enjoyed the Bradbury walk, with my usual BBC documentary proviso on the lack of continuity provided by these ultra-contrived meetings with 'local experts' along the way. They rigidly await her arrival, contribute very little, and then are rapidly dumped as she moves onward. Even her own father, Michael, (isn't he the famous novelist?) got the same treatment. Presumably you were seething with jealousy as perhaps the youngest of the 'experts' was kissed twice as she inevitably left him. The 'famous Millers Dale railway photographer' was totally unknown to me...now if she does a Scottish walk later in the series, and photographer W.J.Verdun Anderson is mentioned, I will sit up and take notice...

Also enjoyed the various snippets of long forgotten Beeching interviews.

As the 'ultimate bean-counter' his arguments were often difficult to contradict - to paraphrase slightly:

"Closure objectors didn't use the service when they had it..."

"If we insisted on retaining lines for historical purposes, we would still have stage coaches..." et al...

Cheers

Robt P.

[plantfit 7,597]

Ayup all,

Saw all the BBC programs last week and felt bad about complaining about the license fee, at last something interesting to watch on the silly box even if one's not interested in the railways it was interesting from an historical and social point of view,

firbeck, pay your visit to Nottingham and enjoy basking in your memories, I know I do when I go back, just be aware of the one way traffic routes and bus lanes, in other words Keep your eyes on the road and road signs.did you ever cycle the Tissington trail from Ashbourn to Buxton by the way, if you get the chance try it, two birds with one stone as it were, cycling (albeit steady now) and railway history plus some fantastic scenery.

Ashley/Rob, some great posts and they are all bringing back the memories

Cheers

Rog

[denshaw 2,872]

Auctions 2008

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Addendum

Lot 7

Former Watnall Railway Cutting, Main Road, Watnall, Nottingham

Guide Price £45,000-£50,000

A rare opportunity to acquire a historical site in Watnall.

Description

• Site extending approximately 6.37 acres (2.58 hectares).

• Former railway cutting site.

• Extensive underground accommodation.

Tenure

Freehold – subject to three existing tenancies.

Note: Further tenancy details are available from Chris Wright of Savills the Auctioneer.

Solicitors

Birketts LLP, 24-26 Museum Street, Ipswich IP1 1HZ

For attention of: Hayley Goldstone. Tel: 01473 406230

email: hayley-goldstone@birketts.co.uk

Ref: CW

The bunker is up for sale on 23rd Oct according to a spokesperson it was used by the R.A.F in the fifties it will accommodate about 30 people.

[firbeck 859]

For those of you who missed it, Railway Walks is repeated tonight, with another round of railway programmes on thursday, including the next Railway Walks which is along the Mawddach Estuary in Wales, it's many years since I've been there, I remember fishing off the magnificent Barmouth railway bridge that spans the estuary mouth, every time a train went over, which wasn't often, it vibrated like hell.

I had completely forgotten that the GCR crossed over Arnold Road, so it must be the GNR 'footpath' I'm thinking of. I've got all sorts of books and old maps of the area, but they are currently stored in the garage, waiting for me to put up shelves and arrange things properly. I did actually Google and found an amazing amount of really good photographs of the GC/GN steam workings in the 60's. One sad photo is of the last steam working leaving Vic for Marylebone, considering the significance of the occasion, the number of people on the end of the platform is very small, most of whom were from our school railway society, no, I'm not visible, someone is standing in the way.

We had spent the previous day travelling up and down the line between Vic and Loughborough on various London semi fasts, all pulled by grimy Black 5's.

On the last day of operation, a special came into Vic hauled by a Merchant Navy Pacific, I took a colour shot of it coming across Weekday Cross Viaduct, only for the film to get torn during developing and the picture was lost. We frantically cycled over to Vic station and watched the train taken over by a pair of shiny B1's, then tried to get to Carrington Street to photo it between the tunnels, as we cycled down the ramp, it came through in an immense cloud of smoke.

We went back to Vic in the late afternoon to watch the last steam departure, then caught the last northbound Bournemouth/York, diesel hauled, to Rotherham Central.

After a long wait, we caught the York/Banbury parcels back to Vic, the last passenger train to run over the northern section of the GCR. I held out till the last minute and bought the last ticket issued at the station, we were seen off by the Station Master, somberly wearing his top hat and tails.

There were only 4 of us on the train that night, we tied the toilet rolls to the carriage door handles which left quite a trail, the guard didn't seem to mind.

By the time we arrived at Vic it was midnight, we asked the ticket collector if we could keep the tickets as souvenirs, but he refused, on the other hand he was p####d out of his brains, so my old man threatened to report him, and other things, we kept the tickets.

Planfit

You are right about the driving, the thing is, I never passed my test till I moved Daan Saaf, it's still a bit of a novelty to drive around all the places I used to cycle to. I find driving along the tram tracks especially wierd, particularly with one of the beasts right behind you.

I've just spotted the Auction for the bunker at Watnall, I'd be interested to see who buys that. Some loony bought a small underground monitoring bunker near Dunmow a couple of years ago and proceeded to store his collection of tanks on top of it. As it was in the middle of some attractive countryside, the planners weren't impressed and they had to go, perhaps he'd be interested in this instead.

[denshaw 2,872]

The railway cutting was sold to an unknown buyer at a price above the asking price before the Auction started.

Den.

[Dick Hatts 1]

There's a couple of Pics of the MR bridge over Cinderhill Road Ashley, don't know if you've seen them:

[Ashley 288]

Thanks a lot, Had seen the 1st one but 2nd is new to me, from newish housing on right I can pinpoint where the bridge was, a good bit further up the road from where I first assumed, Another forgotten railway, a lot of which can still be walked, was the pits line from Cinderhill Pit, I remember part of it in use, the bit from the pit to the wharf and sidings that stood where the old Newcastle pit was on Nuthall Rd virtually opposite Basford Road with it's 3 level crossings over Melbourne Rd, Bells Lane and the little lane from The Barleycrn pub to Wendover Drive plus the bridges over Broxtowe Lane and the old Nottingham Road at side of The Colliers Arms. Originally the railway then ran from Newcastle pit around bottom of Melbourne Park to cross Aspley Lane, it's route can still be seen on west side on Western Boulevard next to The Bluecoat school, after that all is lost but the line ran to Radford Wharf on the old Nottingham canal after crossing the Radford to Trowell MR line via a cross junction. the line was used in the construction of Western Boulevard which may well be built of route on such? Back at Cinderhill there was also a branch up to at least one other pit (Broxtowe?) than ran past end of Eltham Close, still in use in 1965, that route can still be walked, access gained from old Nottingham Road. I think this railway was later connected to The Midland via what is now the tram line to Phoenix Park? the bridge carrying Bagnall Road over such bore a TN sign (Thomas North, builder of pits and the line) maybe it still does?

[firbeck 859]

Another forgotten railway, a lot of which can still be walked, was the pits line from Cinderhill Pit, I remember part of it in use, the bit from the pit to the wharf and sidings that stood where the old Newcastle pit was on Nuthall Rd virtually opposite Basford Road with it's 3 level crossings over Melbourne Rd, Bells Lane and the little lane from The Barleycrn pub to Wendover Drive

Do you know when this railway closed down, I used to travel on the Barton service, 32? from Balloon Woods to Bullwell to visit an old aunt, must have been in the 50's, and I can clearly recall the gates being shut across the road at Bells Hill and having to wait for a train to pass.

I seem to remember the track and gates lingering on into the mid 60's.

I also recall that the line into Cinderhill Pit was in a fairly deep and narrow cutting with craggy, exposed sandstone sides.

[Ashley 288]

yes there was that sandstone cutting you mention, prior the tram you could walk under cinderhill road and into the old pit route, I think The Headstocks pub also built on some old bridge, maybe GN one?, I mentioned branch past Eltham Close in use in 1965, maybe whole (to Newcastle Wharf) still was? can remember a train crossing melbourne rd 1963/64, seem to recall no crossing gates there? a crossing gate pillar left side going up of bells lane was still there around 2000, maybe it still is?

[Dick Hatts 1]

Oh yes, there's a bit of it still left in Cinderhill if you go down the little access road to Embassy Tyres. As you drive into Embasy tyres the line is on your right. Never walked along and explored though.

Just looking on an old victorian map I've got and it seems to go towards what is now the BP garage on the A610 and then suddenly heads left/west over what is now the Broxtowe council estate.

[rob237 89]

Ran parallel with Nuthall Road, verged away slightly behind the Park Tavern - crossed Broxtowe Lane by an overbridge, see my picture on:

http://nottstalgia.com/forums/index.php?ac...ost&id=1686

Onward parallel with Nuthall Road, crossing Melbourne Road (by an originally gated, then flagged) level crossing down to Newcastle Wharf...

Spent many a happy time in the 50's stood at the Bell's Lane crossing as the little saddle tank fought to get the loaded wagons out of the colliery yard and across Bell's Lane. Tremendous racket and steam shrouding the whole area...

The poor man's Lickey Incline!

Cheers

Robt P.

[Ashley 288]

Re A610 BP Garage, here there was some junction whether a Y or a triangle I dont know but lines went left to bells lane and right up round back of broxtowe estate (though originally estate not there of course). But before reaching said junction the line had come from the pits (cinderhill and babbington) as said up incline over long gone part what was original A610, this is now called Nottingham Road but instead of joining Bells Lane as it now does it heading towards nottingham veered to the left just after the Broxtowe Inn to where route of A610 now is, opposite BP garage is part of original sandstone "boundary wall" where entrance to pit was. Access to old line route heading towards city can (or could recently) be got at Bells Lane, leading through old "quarry?" and Melbourne Rd, a def still there walk leading back to Broxtowe Lane, and via Melbourne Park, as I said after reaching Western Boulevard I have found no trace of it, but it did cross Aspley Lane then the MR Trowell line via an end on junction (+ type on the level) called "Seeley's Babbington Crossing" with a signal box there of same name controlling it along with a branch to "Newcastle Sidings", after that the route ran to "Babbington Wharf" on the old Nottingham Canal I think off Radford Bridge Road. Martins Plumbers (if still there) opp Radford Rd Police Station did have an old map on wall in shop showing full route (about 10 years ago!)

[firbeck 859]

Ashley

Try www.old-maps.co.uk, type in Nottingham and you get a map dated 1885, it's a pain to navigate and a bit unclear sometimes, but you get the hang of it.

What is fascinating is that it shows all the lines you talk about around Cinderhill, the one running along the back of Broxtowe goes on for miles with a big triangular junction between Kimberley and Strelley.

I've got to nip out in a minute and haven't got time to go through it all, but see what you think, there must be many treasures on there to find.