katyjay 5,091 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Just saw on the teatime news here, about the plane that came down on the Hudson River, in New York. 155 folks on board and every one got off safely. Apparently a flock of Canada geese flew into an engine on take off. The pilot had the presence of mind to bring the plane down on the river as he knew he couldn't get back to the airport. I shall not be so skeptical in future when I fly and the stewardess tells us when going through the safety instructions, about landing on water. I always thought to myself 'yeah right', like a plane can just drift down and plop on water and you'd get off. I guess you can! It was also a miracle so many ferry boats were in the area and got the folks off the wings before the plane sank any more. I bet that pilot gets 150 extra Christmas cards every year from now on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zab 47 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Looks like the pilot and crew did a great job in getting the plane down, could have been so much worse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stan 386 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Yes,just imagine an Airbus with a full fuel load crashing into New York city. 9/11 all over again or worse! The Captain must be a genius-he deserves America`s highest award. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bip 88 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 The media will be calling him an hero soon.....what for? for doing his job! I would praise him and his skill in getting the plane down in one peace but a hero? No! Do we praise the pilot when we land safely at our destination? No! Bip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stan 386 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Sorry to disagree Bip. To land a fully laden Airbus(or any other jet aircraft on water,and save all passengers has never been accomplished before).Without his 40 years of skilled flying,remarkable thinking and actions,the plane without any power would have hit the city,with huge loss of life. To get the angle of attack spot onwith reference to water was brilliant-just a few degrees out and the plane would have broken up or submerged. I think it was a little more than `doing his job' Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stan 386 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 The FAA does not require commercial pilots to train to ditch, regulating instead the distance a plane can stray from an airfield.[1] Nevertheless, all commercial aircraft are equipped with flotation devices in case of water landings Ralph Nader's Aviation Consumer Action Project has been quoted as claiming (though not offering proof) that a wide body jet would “shatter like a raw egg dropped on pavement, killing most if not all passengers on impact, even in calm seas with well-trained pilots and good landing In December 2002, The Economist quoted an expert as claiming that "No large airliner has ever made an emergency landing on water" in an article that goes on to charge, "So the life jackets ... have little purpose other than to make passengers feel better."[4][5] This claim was repeated in The Economist in September 2006 in an article which claimed that "in the history of aviation the number of wide-bodied aircraft that have made successful landings on water is zero Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Limey 242 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 When you learn to fly, the thing they drill into you over-and-over is "your engine(s) just quit, what are you going to do now?" The first thing you do is "fly the airplane" the next thing is find a place to put it down - and if there is not a suitable piece of dry land - water is the best choice. It is actually relatively easy - no landing gear, and fly it on rather than flair it out. Also remember that these pilots go into the simulator at least once/year to learn how to do these exact maneuvers! Having said that - I think he did a great job - hero, maybe not, he simply did what he had been trained to do, and did it properly and efficiently. Maybe now we can do something about all those damned Canada geese! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stan 386 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 See notes above,Limey. I still think it is a magnificent piece of flying.(probably still on a `high' after watching another `hero' receive his V.C..First Australian in 40 years.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
katyjay 5,091 Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Another reason things turned out well, apart from a perfect landing is, this plane was equipped with a 'ditch' button. If you know you're going into water, press this and all vents etc seal tight. Not all commercial aircraft have this, thankfully this one did. Plus they didn't open the rear door to evacuate, which kept it afloat longer. No matter what anyone says, the pilot was a hero, he saved everyone's lives. I'd rather call him a hero than these trumped up, over paid so called athletes, who kick a ball around. I remember an airliner coming down in the sea a long time ago, someone captured it on film from the beach. I do believe it broke up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beefsteak 305 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I too think he's done a great job, a little disproportionate to be recommending him for a congressional medal of honour, but a great job none the less I'll put a guidance warning on this (It's a bit scary for the nervous flyer) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Limey 242 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 The FAA does not require commercial pilots to train to ditch, regulating instead the distance a plane can stray from an airfield Where on earth did you get this information from? The FAA certainly DO require that all pilots learn to do emergency landings including into water (at least, it was on my check flight) and I know of no rule that regulates how far an airplane can fly away from an airfield! If there is such a regulation, the distance is pretty big - they fly LA-Hawaii - a pretty long way over water! As to the life-vests not being any use, since I have lived in the states there have been at least two occasions where lives have been saved after an aircraft crashed into water that I can remember off the top of my head! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley 288 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Alot of fuss over nothing, back in 1930/40s likes of Howard Hughes were doing it everyday,lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bip 88 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I'm not taking anything away from his skill at doing what he had been trained to do after all that’s his job to make sure everyone survives an emergency. For him landing it safely in water, the water was a river with, if any waves so to speak of, which in turn helped with the soft and smooth landing as if he have brought the aircraft down in a plough field. As been mentioned before this was a brand spanking new modern airplane with up to date modern technology helping the pilot and passengers to survive such an event. Three cheers for the pilot hip hip………….. When the black box is recovered one might discover it was on auto pilot, just a thought. Bip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley 288 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 forgive me if I come across as thick but has anyone ever suggested some sort of grill over the front of engines? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ube 38 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Must have been GE or P&W engines!!!!!...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bip 88 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Aren't modern engines disigned to be bird strike proof.........wouldn't a grill just stop the airflow having the same effect? Lets get back to props much less messing about. Bip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Limey 242 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 ...anyone ever suggested some sort of grill over the front of engines? Good question! Yes - but there are several problems. Firstly, any grill will restrict airflow, so the area would have to be increased. However, the biggest problem is icing - if the aircraft encounters moisture laded air with a temperature near freezing, it would ice up the mesh/grill and prevent any air getting in - not a good thing! All engines are tested for bird strikes - and must pass to be certified, but it is by no means a "foolproof" test. In this case it seems they had a double bird strike - which is considered to be very rare! Unfortunately, even prop planes can suffer the same issues - turboprops have similar engines, and the debris from a prop strike can block the air intake of a piston engine. A prop strike on a bird can also severly damage the prop - to the point that the airplane can no longer fly - It happened to the guy in the next hanger to me! Hit a flock of (you guessed it) Canada geese on his takeoff run. Damaged the prop enough he thought the engine would shake off the front of the airplane - fortunately, he was not airborne and managed to bring his plane to a stop. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beefsteak 305 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Also a grill to stop any thing being sucked in would have to have mesh so small it would hold any birds, or other FOD related material, in front of the engine , again restricting flow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ube 38 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 av been on many a bird indestion test....they do remarkably well to say whats been fired through them and they still run.....the funniest part of the test is all the foxes gather behind the bed and wait for the sliced,diced and cooked bird bits to flying out............. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bip 88 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Aren't modern engines disigned to be bird strike proof.........wouldn't a grill just stop the airflow having the same effect?Lets get back to props much less messing about. Bip. Can I draw your attention to a post of mind made over 30 minutes ago.... If icing were the only problem for having a mess in front of the intake then couldn't it be heated? just a thought. Bip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ube 38 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 more chance of any type of grill/mesh/guard breaking up and being sucking into the engine then any bird strike and besides the engine needs all the smooth air it can get with no obstuction or any turbulance at intake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stan 386 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Federal investigators say that both engines are missing from the US Airways jetliner that ditched into the Hudson River. Kitty Higgins of the National Transportation Safety Board said Friday crews are using sonar to search the river for wreckage from the engines. She says both engines apparently came off after hitting the water. Crews plan to begin hoisting the plane from the water on Saturday before putting it on a barge and removing the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder. NTSB officials say it's unclear when the engines separated from the plane. Experts say it's not uncommon for engines to break apart from planes after bird strikes, because of the severe vibration brought on in such incidents. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ube 38 Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Chocolate king pins.....someones picking up his/her p45 on Monday...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bip 88 Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Chocolate kingpins that as maybe but i heard this morning on the news that the modern engine are disigned to do just that on impact.... Bip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mick2me 3,033 Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Its not just birds that get sucked into jet engines? Warning, do not watch if you are sqeamish! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6602000191346967728 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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