Lancaster PM-M City of Lincoln

[Merthyr Imp 729]

I should imagine so they didn't overshoot the runway with very expensive and scarce bomber planes. (Crew were probably easier to replace).

I would venture to say the opposite was true - the number of trained crew was finite, and I'm sure it would have take longer to train up new personnel than to build a new aircraft. Reduced to its basics, it would only take a matter of days to build a new aircraft from scratch - compared to 20 or so years to produce 7 new people from scratch to fly it.

I know a Spitfire is smaller than a Lancaster and would therefore take less time to build, but I've always understood the fear during the Battle of Britain was not that we'd run out of aircraft but that we'd run out of people to fly them. I would think the same applied during the bomber offensive.

[Rob.L 1,090]

This thread prompted me to look up the flight record for my wife's uncle, who was a navigator in 300 Squadron.

To give you an idea of what they were up against night after night, this is an extract of their list of missions:

08/09.03.1945 KASSEL

11.03.1945 ESSEN

12.03.1945 DORTMUND

15/16.03.1945 MISBURG [Hanover]

16/17.03.1945 NURNBERG

21/22.03.1945 BRUCHSTRASSE

23.03.1945 BREMEN BRIDGE

25.03.1945 HANNOVER

They then seem to have had a bit of respite, as his record moves on a few days.

09/10.04.1945 KIEL

10/11.04.1945 PLAUEN

14/15.04.1945 POTSDAM

18.04.1945 HELIGOLAND

22.04.1945 BREMEN

As the war drew to a close, they moved onto a number of sorties dropping relief supplies to the Dutch, bringing POWs back as part of Operation Exodus, and finally, delivering medical supplies to Bruksela-Meldbroek camp.

He settled here after the war and married, but the crew stayed in close contact for the rest of their lives. After he died, his widow married a former Lancaster pilot whose main claim to fame was that in the 50s, he was co-opted by the RAF to fly one of the Lancasters in "The Dambusters", where he got to know Richard Todd very well.

[plantfit 7,597]

What a brilliant post Rob, hero's everyone

Rog

[Rob.L 1,090]

Thanks, Rog.

Unfortunately, he and his comrades were among those heroes who were denied any recognition in the post-war victory parade by virtue of the word "Poland" being on their uniforms.

Something that still rankles the surviving veterans today.

[plantfit 7,597]

Rob I believe 301 sqdn flew out of Swinderby airfield or they were part of the HCU from Swinderby, only a couple of miles from home, at the moment it is in the process of starting up as a sand and gravel quarry site, I should be able to get some pics of the remaining runways as I have the keys to the site

Rog

[Bilbraborn 1,594]

And it took all this time to set up a monument. WHAT A DISGRACE!!!!!!

[plantfit 7,597]

City of Lincoln in her present guise, "Thumper" another 617 sqdn Lanc

Rog

[Bilbraborn 1,594]

When I was on the railway, I used to go and have a cuppa with my mate in Derby. His daughter was doing WW2 at school. They never even told those kids that the engines that powered the planes that won us the war were built less than a mile from their school and tested in neighbouring Notts. It's as if they are trying to thwart national pride.

No one will ever stop me from being proud of my country's role in WW2!!!

[plantfit 7,597]

Just been announced on Lincolnshire radio that the Canadian Lancaster is coming to the UK on August 8 this year, being based at RAF Coningsby it will have six days of mantainance then perform various comemorative flypast, thought some of you will be interested

Rog

[Limey 242]

WOW - that has to be a MAJOR shipping job!

[Rob.L 1,090]

Link for the Canadian trip - http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/archive/raf-bbmf-to-host-canadian-warplane-heritage-museum-lancaster-during-visit-to-england-24022014

[Bilbraborn 1,594]

Thanks for letting us know about that one.

[Limey 242]

One flying Lanc is pretty impressive - but TWO TOGETHER!

[The Pianoman 1,535]

I wonder how they are getting the Lanc at East Kirby - Lincolnshire Heritage Aviation. The last I heard they had acquired 4 new engines for it. It seems that the airframe is OK.

[The Pianoman 1,535]

Thought I might have a look and find out more for myself

http://www.lincsaviation.co.uk/news/lancaster-nx611-return-to-flight/

[firbeck 859]

I wonder if this has got anything to do with the fact that the last surviving WW2 Hawker Typhoon fighter bomber has been shipped from the RAF Museum at Hendon to Canada for indefinite loan, not a popular decision among the UK aircraft preservationists.

The BBMF Lancaster was a late build and never served operationally during the war, it ended up as a test aircraft for de-icing trials with an artificial tail grafted on to the back of it's fuselage. The RAF got hold of it during the early 60's with a view to forming a memorial flight, I was lucky enough to see it's first public outing at an RAF 'At Home' airshow at Finningley circa 1963, as you can see from my photo it was devoid of turrets and had a rough camo paint job slapped on it, it didn't fly at the event.

'Just Jane' was obtained from the French Airforce where it was acting as a photographic/maritime aircraft in the South Pacific during the early 60's. It was privately bought and flown all the way back to the UK, ending up at the former USAAF airstrip at Lavenham, Suffolk where a museum was to be established. This never happened and it ended up at Biggin Hill, then Blackpool and finally on the gate of RAF Scampton before being moved to East Kirby.

Another Lancaster was around during the early 60's/70's, owned by Lord Strathallan, it was brought over from Canada then based in Scotland in flying condition. When this collection was broken up the aircraft was purchased by Charles Church, still in flying condition, it was flown to BAe at Wharton during the 80's for a major service, the hangar collapsed on it and it was badly damaged. Charles Church was killed in a flying accident in his hybrid Mk5 Spitfire and the Lancaster remains were bought by US 'Preservationist' Kermit Weekes, chucked in shipping containers where they remain to this day, rotting away and out of sight in the USA.

[Limey 242]

The CWHM's Lanc:

"The Museum's Lancaster Mk. X was built at Victory Aircraft, Malton in July 1945 and was later converted to a RCAF 10MR configuration. In 1952, it suffered a serious accident and received a replacement wing centre section from a Lancaster that had flown in combat over Germany. It served as a maritime patrol aircraft, with No. 405 Squadron, Greenwood, NS and No. 107 Rescue Unit, Torbay, Newfoundland for many years and was retired from the RCAF in late 1963. With help from the Sulley Foundation in 1977, it was acquired from the Royal Canadian Legion in Goderich, Ontario, where it had been on outside display. Eleven years passed before it was completely restored and flew again on September 24, 1988."

The factory at Malton is still there. It was a DeHavilland factory after the war, and is now owned, and operated, by Bombadier. I think they make parts for their Regional Jet there.

As to "rotting and out of sight" - not exactly correct. The containers are sealed to prevent further deterioration of the aircraft, and are clearly in view!

[The Pianoman 1,535]

The Typhoon that was on display at Hendon was moved to Cosford but not put on display. It is no longer mentioned on their website, assume because it is now in Canada. It was 'found' in the Smithsonian instute USA and given to the RAF Museum - where it should have stayed!

[firbeck 859]

As to "rotting and out of sight" - not exactly correct. The containers are sealed to prevent further deterioration of the aircraft, and are clearly in view!

Rubbish, the containers are in view but the Lancaster isn't. I've seen recent photos taken inside the containers and the airframe is in an abysmal state, just like the Sunderland and the Mosquito that Weekes obtained in flying condition from the UK but has left to rot away.

I could go on about the Napier Sabre and Bristol Hercules engines the man has stockpiled for profit, but that's another story, this is all about Lancs.

[Rob.L 1,090]

Talking of Lancs and Lincoln, my wife's late uncle took a rather good picture once. It even made it into the Daily Mail..

Full article here - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324297/Behind-scenes-The-Dam-Busters-How-crews-created-scale-models-targets-flew-real-Lancasters-make-classic-war-film.html

[Limey 242]

Rubbish, the containers are in view but the Lancaster isn't. I've seen recent photos taken inside the containers and the airframe is in an abysmal state, just like the Sunderland and the Mosquito that Weekes obtained in flying condition from the UK but has left to rot away.

I could go on about the Napier Sabre and Bristol Hercules engines the man has stockpiled for profit, but that's another story, this is all about Lancs.

Lets see the photos. The only ones I can find are BEFORE it went into storage - and it was in a VERY poor state!

As for the Sunderland that is rotting away:

http://youtu.be/NMTBDQScFyw

...and the Mosquito:

http://youtu.be/yd2M21nlw0w

They don't look too rotten to me.

[firbeck 859]

Hi Limey, we've had this argument about Kermit Weekes before, you're either for him or against him, it's as simple as that, I apologize for starting it up again and I think we should agree to disagree and concentrate on Lancasters instead.

For those of you lucky people with a large amount of spare cash, you can take a 30 minute flight around Lincolnshire in the CWH Lanc for £5000 to travel in the cockpit or £3500 to sit in the fuselage, I bet it's oversubscribed already. It is a truly magnificent gesture for them to bring this aircraft over, unlike our Lancaster, which is funded by the MoD and serviced and flown by serving RAF personnel, this aircraft is operated by 98% volunteers.

Things never go smoothly when flying elderly aircraft over the Atlantic, the B-29, now in the American Museum at Duxford, was flown over from California and suffered severe oil problems. I recall it landing for the last time at DX streaming smoke from it's engines which were on their last legs. The B-24 'Diamond Lil' flew over in the 90's and was grounded during most of her time in the UK because of engine problems. When they attempted to bring over P-38 'Glacier Girl' a few years ago, it expired at Greenland and never arrived.

As some of you know, Peter Jackson is doing a remake of the 'Dambusters' film. This has been put on hold while he finishes off the Hobbit Trilogy. However, Stephen Fry has finished the script and research was originally done by him and Jackson taxying around East Kirby in 'Just Jane'. While Jackson has acquired a fleet of glass fibre replica Lancasters in New Zealand, some of the filming has to be carried out at Scampton rather than NZ for authenticity. I wonder if this trip has something to do with it, yes, non of these Lancs, 'Just Jane' included have the severe modifications carried out on 617 squadron Lancs, but a bit of CGI could sort that out.

[plantfit 7,597]

When I put this post on it was because I wanted you all to know about this once in a lifetime sight, the last thing I wanted was to start WW3 between Kermit Weekes fans and fans of Greene King, just enjoy seeing two Lancs flying over the fields of Britain again

Rog

[firbeck 859]

Well that's nowt to do with me then, I didn't know that Limey was a fan of Greene King.

[Rob.L 1,090]

Re the Peter Jackson film. I saw a while back that they were looking to recruit lots of special effects experts for this remake. Unlike for the original where they had real pilots flying real planes, and a budget of about 3/6 for the special effects. (Not that I'm decrying what was the best they could do with the technology available)

And that Gibson's dog would be renamed to Nidge.