What are you listening to now ??

[benjamin1945 16,182]

You probably heard it coming from my car BK........Often drove along that road and A1......When i was going home to Peterborough.........

[DJ360 6,733]

I was waiting for that....  Later...

[DJ360 6,733]

@Brew

Have a read:

 

https://hifiplus.com/articles/innuos-zenmini-mk-3-music-server-with-lpsu-power-supply/

[Brew 5,424]

25 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

@Brew

Have a read:

 

https://hifiplus.com/articles/innuos-zenmini-mk-3-music-server-with-lpsu-power-supply/

 

I'm fairly sure you know I'm not going to be impressed.

Reading that is quite frankly pretentious nonsense, sales upspeak for the gullible. The writer claims a small but significant improvement in sound quality without saying how they achieve it. They even admit the 'brick'  is perfectly serviceable and the LPSU is, in so many words, simply a £500 prestige accessory. Little is said about what it brings to the party, it's there almost as an after thought, a marketing placebo.

 

I expected it would be some technical wizardry of filters and smoothing caps to deliver a pure signal free of distortion. It's not It's a linear supply and as such is not as efficient as the swich mode 'brick. They also cost less to manufacture than a switch mode.

Quite how it affects the sound is beyond me but hey, each to their own, if you're happy so am I...

[letsavagoo 964]

Please don’t let’s go into audiofoolery. It is a minefield. People with pay £100’s per inch for speaker cable and special fuses that allegedly lower distortion but it’s all subjective. 90% is complete cock but If it makes the buyer happy, so be it. This could be worse than the political thread. Don’t do it. Please.

ps. Have you thought of getting oxygen free pure copper laid from the power station to your house. Will improve the sound no end.

[Brew 5,424]

2 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

This could be worse than the political thread. Don’t do it.

 

Err... you just did,,,

 

[DJ360 6,733]

5 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

Please don’t let’s go into audiofoolery. It is a minefield. People with pay £100’s per inch for speaker cable and special fuses that allegedly lower distortion but it’s all subjective. 90% is complete cock but If it makes the buyer happy, so be it. This could be worse than the political thread. Don’t do it. Please.

ps. Have you thought of getting oxygen free pure copper laid from the power station to your house. Will improve the sound no end.

 

Rather a lot of assumptions invoked there in order to justify you making your point.

 

Here's what I wrote about 'wires' recently elsewhere.

 

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/soundquality-of-different-rca-cables-using-tunemethod.286547/post-5155170

 

et.seq.

 

I was actually wrong to post that, because it's arrogant to say that I can predict outcomes in all cases, but I was being deliberately provocative.  'Cable Threads' on such sites are basically good natured War Zones.

As is the Politics Thread on here... mostly..

 

 

 

[DJ360 6,733]

6 hours ago, Brew said:

 

I'm fairly sure you know I'm not going to be impressed.

Reading that is quite frankly pretentious nonsense, sales upspeak for the gullible. The writer claims a small but significant improvement in sound quality without saying how they achieve it. They even admit the 'brick'  is perfectly serviceable and the LPSU is, in so many words, simply a £500 prestige accessory. Little is said about what it brings to the party, it's there almost as an after thought, a marketing placebo.

 

I expected it would be some technical wizardry of filters and smoothing caps to deliver a pure signal free of distortion. It's not It's a linear supply and as such is not as efficient as the swich mode 'brick. They also cost less to manufacture than a switch mode.

Quite how it affects the sound is beyond me but hey, each to their own, if you're happy so am I...

 

I knew I shouldn't have posted the Audio Plus Review.  It's a notoriously 'high end' Mag, which I don't buy.  But I posted that as a general article about the Innuos Zen Mini which it is, not as a justification for anything, which it isn't. I don't read its comments on the the switch mode v the linear psu the way you do, but then we don't have the same agenda.

I also detect not only your pragmatism, but your cynicism.. 'in spades' in your response.

 

What you don't seem to have picked up on is that the Innuos Zen Mini is the entry level product in the range and therefore has a couple of things squeezed in within cost constraints. 1. A 'wall wart' switch mode PSU. 2. A built in DAC. (Digital to Analogue Converter) The point being that it then functions as a (relatively) low cost server which is ready to go.

To be brutally honest, had I thought it through, I'd probably have been better off sourcing a decent second hand 'Zen' (next model up), as it comes with a proper linear PSU built in, but no DAC. No issue because I have a very highly regarded Benchmark DAC 1 here which cost almost as much as the ZEN Mini more than 15 years ago and sounds very good indeed.

I've yet to do a proper comparison between the built in DAC and the Benchmark, because getting down and grovelling about with wires etc.. is difficult at present.

But, as I said to Lizzie, I bought my Zen Mini in a quiet fit of pique. And I don't do regret.

 

As to Switch v Linear PSUs, whilst I'm sure there are always going to be caveats, there seems to be a broad consensus that switch PSUs, especially cheap ones, are noisy. ( in audio terms). I don't see electrical efficiency as particularly relevant in the context of audio systems. Class A amps, Valve amps etc., are all arguably electrically inefficient, producing as they do a fair bit of heat, but few would condemn them on that point.

 

See here also: https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/offboard-power-supplies.287293/post-5171089

 

And yes, the Linear PSU sounds better to me.  I don't do 'foo' and I don't buy kit that doesn't justify itself by home demonstration in my system.

 

There is a pretty strong tradition in audio, of some manufacturers offering offboard PSUs as 'upgrades'. Generally, I'm not in favour of it, on the basis that it's better to get the product right in the first place, but there is a counter argument, which says that the approach allows people to get 'on the ladder' at minimal cost and up a rung later.  It's not quite the same with the Innuos Zen Mini, because its offered as a complete 'budget' solution.

 

 

[Brew 5,424]

Interesting but I was only referring to the LPSU. In their most basic form both switch mode and linear are pretty 'dirty', the main cause of the noise being  a cheap or poorly constructed transformer and the magnetising of the core laminations... It gets complicated from there...

[Beekay 5,182]

Can somebody explain to me, in simple terms...'What the hell they're on about.

[philmayfield 6,189]

Hi Fi buffs Barrie. They like a pure sound to emanate from their speakers but it’s all a bit subjective. Is the sound produced at the original recording the same sound that comes out of the speakers? Most of us spend excessive monies on our hobbies from drinking to women. As long as we take pleasure from it that’s all that matters!

[Beekay 5,182]

Well that's alright then. Thank you Phil. Did you get my ecard?

[philmayfield 6,189]

Not as far as I’m aware. I’ve been up in Lancashire all day playing Father Christmas. Feeling a bit jaded after driving 300 miles in strong winds, rain and heavy traffic. A pint of bitter, a gin and tonic, a glass of wine and a light meal and I’m ready for bed!

[letsavagoo 964]

5 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Rather a lot of assumptions invoked there in order to justify you making your point.

Don’t see any assumptions in my post at all. I wasn’t being offensive or confrontational. Most of it is utter rubbish with no scientific basis at all as I’m sure you know but I did say if it makes the buyer happy then spend on. It is highly likely that the linear supply does improve sound quality for perfectly valid scientific reasons but is it a £500 improvement. But if you want that slight improvement and accept it costs £500 to make it then why not.
The comment re power station to house was tongue in cheek. 
 

 

9 hours ago, Brew said:

Err... you just did,,,

Like audiofoolery that’s your opinion and subjective. But as you and dj have gone on to post further on the subject I just may have been correct.

[Brew 5,424]

2 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

Like audiofoolery that’s your opinion and subjective. But as you and dj have gone on to post further on the subject I just may have been correct.

 

You've lost me... what is my opinion and what am I being subjective about?

You said "don't do it" I merely pointed you that you did something you asked us not to,  so what may you have just been correct about?

One more point. Tongue in cheek or not if you don't want a topic to continue, asking a question, facetious though it may be, is hardly the way to do it, it invites a reply and engagement does it not?

[letsavagoo 964]

Your correct Brew. An attempt to show how foolish audiofoolery can be rather than tongue in cheek. I rather shot myself in the foot didn’t I. But you and dj would doubtless have carried on without me saying a word. It’s not my place to have any say what’s discussed on Nottstalgia but I suppose it’s that I can just see discussions on audio matters going the same way as the political thread with you and dj sparring and dominating a subject likely to be of little interest to most Nottstalgia members.  

[philmayfield 6,189]

14 hours ago, Beekay said:

Well that's alright then. Thank you Phil. Did you get my ecard?

Unless it was the box of fresh lobster, scallops and frites plus chocolate mousse which arrived this morning. 

[Brew 5,424]

5 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

ou and dj sparring and dominating a subject likely to be of little interest to most Nottstalgia members.

 

It may appear so sometimes yet strangely enough the political topic is almost universally  read, let's not confuse lack of participation with lack of interest.

When a subject starts to dominate and is irrelevant to the topic, we have an excellent moderator who will move it to the appropriate heading - or even create a new one.

 

[DJ360 6,733]

16 hours ago, philmayfield said:

Most of us spend excessive monies on our hobbies from drinking to women. As long as we take pleasure from it that’s all that matters!

 

And that, Phil, is the most important point of all.  I've lost count of the number of times when some clown has expressed shock, scorn, or disbelief at the cash I've spent on some bit of kit and then been silenced by me pointing out that they spend much more chasing some football team around the country and up and down the league tables. What's more... at the end of the season they have only memories.. not all good.. whilst I still have the bit of kit and the pleasure it gives me, for the forseeable.

 

16 hours ago, philmayfield said:

They like a pure sound to emanate from their speakers but it’s all a bit subjective.

 

It's certainly partly subjective, but when it comes to loudspeakers, it can also be measured. Also there are lots of variables which come before the loudspeaker, such as recording quality, replay quality, amplifier characteristics etc,  The speaker's own behaviour is influenced by it's environment, so wise 'hi-fi buffs' choose a speaker which not only works well with their other kit, but also works well in their listening room. Sticking a pair of speakers in room corners just below the ceiling is usually the worst possible move, as both corners and proximity to walls will influence the bass output of the speaker such that it, to use the technical term, will be 'all over the place', and yet it's still a favoured placement for the uninitiated.

 

And yes, taste, or 'subjectivity', also play a part. We all both listen and hear differently. We listen for, and respond to different elements within the music, as well as having measurably different hearing, so what we like, will probably differ from what the next person likes.  There are about ten dwellings in our little cul-de-sac. in three of them are 'hi fi buff's.' We're all friends and we each have very high quality hi fi systems, but they all sound different...  Taste.

 

There is no such thing as a 'perfect' hi fi system, any more that there is a perfect car etc.  So what's the point?

I'll try an analogy.  Most of us will have heard the late Les Dawson deliberately playing the piano badly and we recognised that it was 'bad' playing. Most of us would also recognise that 'great' concert pianists, such as Ashkenazy, Brendel, Barenboim and others play extremely well.  But who is/was 'the best' will always be debateable and subject to taste. It's the same with hi-fi and a couple of commonly used expressions cover it. 1, 'Trust your ears' in other words, don't let anyone else tell you what you are hearing.. they can't possibly know. 2. 'If it sounds right..it is right'.

 

16 hours ago, philmayfield said:

Is the sound produced at the original recording the same sound that comes out of the speakers?

 

Almost certainly not, but good and well matched 'kit' can take us closer.  As a simple example, everytime I have swapped, or upgraded my record player over the years, I've listened to the intro to Joni Mitchell's 'All I want' from her legendary album 'Blue'.  Even on my 'played to death' original copy, the interplay between her dulcimer playing, the percussion etc, is revealed as more subtle and complex as my record player improves.

 

With good kit,(and a decent recording) the music will be projected beyond the confines of the speakers, to create a 'soundstage', which can reveal not only the placement of instruments etc, but also some sense of scale and the environment in which it was recorded. Clearly you aren't going to get a full sized 60 piece orchestra in your lounge, but you can get closer.  Sadly, with modern 'pop', that all breaks down to some extent. Very modern stuff, such as Billie Eilish's worldwide smash hit album 'When We All Fall Asleep Where Do We Go?' was recorded in her brother's bedroom. But my system still reproduces it way better than my 'Echo Dot', my TV, or the 30 quid plastic boom box Mrs Col uses in her sewing room.

 

[DJ360 6,733]

13 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

Like audiofoolery that’s your opinion and subjective. But as you and dj have gone on to post further on the subject I just may have been correct.

 

A self fulfilling prophecy if ever I saw one...

[DJ360 6,733]

13 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

But if you want that slight improvement and accept it costs £500 to make it then why not.

 

Exactly.  As it is, the improvement takes the set up close to the next model up in the range, which costs around £3k.

[Beekay 5,182]

1 hour ago, philmayfield said:

Unless it was the box of fresh lobster, scallops and frites plus chocolate mousse which arrived this morning. 

No it was sent by email sir.

[philmayfield 6,189]

I’ve got a fair to reasonable hi fi setup, probably not to your standards but I don’t listen to it. Music is of no interest to me these days, not even when I’m alone in the car. Radio 4 and Times Radio is all I need!

[philmayfield 6,189]

7 minutes ago, Beekay said:

No it was sent by email sir.

I haven’t seen it but thanks for the good wishes (if that’s what they were!)

[benjamin1945 16,182]

Brown sugars we sold at Marsdens only in the Posher places.....in the 60s.

Demerara....Soft Brown...Light Brown...Dark Brown...even Muscovado.....

60s you were either Beatles or Stones Fan........i was very working class 'Beatles'......but as years rolled by.........i started to appreciate the ''Stones''

Which i still do.......