Anything Political

[DJ360 6,781]

22 hours ago, Brew said:

I wonder what excuses Sunak will come up with on Friday and how long before there is a new leader/s?

 

I've no idea, but I'd wager a small sum that he will be living abroad within weeks.

 

I'd be far more interested (and potentially concerned) by the broad political direction of whatever is left of the Tory Party.

I'm frankly mystified by repeated calls from some Tories for the Party to 'move back to the right'  Seriously? I've never known such a right wing Tory Govt, so God only knows what the party's 'Right' want...

 

Meanwhile, it's indicative of the desperation of the Tories, that they rolled out Johnson yesterday.

Of course Johnson just delivered a barely coherent stream of drivel about 'our achievements' (Really?), along with the already bankrupt and illogical warning of a 'supermajority'.  As I've already said.. a majority of one is all that's needed to win a Parliamentary vote.. and I don't recall Johnson or any other Tory complaining when they were 'Gifted' a substantial Parliamentary majority by the Leave Campaign's lies and Corbyn's stance on the EU.

[DJ360 6,781]

On 7/1/2024 at 11:49 PM, Brew said:

To answer your question then my guess is it would be the hard left. 

 

You lost me.

[Brew 5,510]

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

"At best he is seen as xenophobic and pandering to racists, and at worst, he is seen as xenophobic and racist."

 

Xenophobic I can accept, the hypocrisy of Coutts I can't. They were more than happy to accept billionaires and Russian oligarchs without question.

 

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Powell's 'principles' were overtly Racist. Their chronology doesn't change that.

 

I didn't say they weren't, but time does play a part. It was controversial then ,not illegal. It would probably be illegal now. Powells speech itself is a smokescreen and not what Farage was referring to, it was the principle of unfettered immigration, a principle all parties subscribe to.

 

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Clearly Farage hasn't got as far as 'terrorism' and I doubt he ever will.. but he's certainly well along the road of 'Fascinating Fools'. If he ever did achieve power.. 'Your heard it first here folks!

 

And Soros is not the tooth fairy, he has his share of detractors and accusers. Soros like others of his ilk does nothing unless it makes a profit. There are so many rumours surrounding him maybe we should apply the 'Duck Test' to him as well. Farage as ever takes a grain of truth and turns it to his advantage - then again what politician doesn't?

 

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

As for 'Col's Dark Forces'.  No mystery there and any amount of evidence. I've pointed to Tufton St and the IEA, many times.

 

Yes many times, but still no actual evidence just a repetition of your interpretation and convictions.

 

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

t links his ideology to that of similar, or even identical ideologies expressed by some very unsavoury characters including Trump, Bannon and Putin,

 

Like the Coutts statement that's guilt by association and untenable.

 

 

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

The bottom line here is that Farage's statement about the (mythical?) street in question was clearly not supported by the evidence,

 

Like I said he takes a grain of truth and exaggerates it. It was a comment made to him by a local, it may well have been a throwaway line by a disgruntled resident, but it was enough for him to seize upon. He did say "I was told by..." He did not lie or make it up which was what the article implied.

 

 

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Nic Robinson did, on the BBC... very effectively.

 

Robinson's somewhat esoteric programme is hardly mainstream media

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DJ360 6,781]

43 minutes ago, Brew said:

Xenophobic I can accept, the hypocrisy of Coutts I can't. They were more than happy to accept billionaires and Russian oligarchs without question.

 

Maybe those billionaires and Oligarchs kept a low profile and didn't run around spouting xenophobic crap and therefore not presenting Coutt's with a perceived problem.

45 minutes ago, Brew said:

Powells speech itself is a smokescreen and not what Farage was referring to, it was the principle of unfettered immigration, a principle all parties subscribe to.

 

If he mentioned Powell and quoted him on immigration, he was echoing racism. If all parties oppose unfettered immigration..why did he need to invoke Powell?

 

47 minutes ago, Brew said:

And Soros is not the tooth fairy, he has his share of detractors and accusers.

 

Yep... on the right, including a whole slew of Dictators.  He's literally given away billions to support Democracy.

 

From Wiki:

 

Quote

 

George Soros

Hungarian-American investor and philanthropist (born 1930)

georgesoros.com

George Soros is a Hungarian-American billionaire businessman, investor, and philanthropist. As of October 2023, he had a net worth of US$6.7 billion, having donated more than $32 billion to the Open Society Foundations, of which $15 billion has already been distributed, representing 64% of his original fortune. Forbes called Soros the "most generous giver". He is a resident of New York. Wikipedia

Born	György Schwartz, August 12, 1930, Budapest, Kingdom of Hungary
Age	93 years
Citizenship	Hungary, United States

 

52 minutes ago, Brew said: Like the Coutts statement that's guilt by association and untenable.   Hardly.  Coutt's have no declared  political allegiance to any of their clients, but Farage has openly collaborated with  Trump and Bannon and expressed admiration for Putin.   56 minutes ago, Brew said: Like I said he takes a grain of truth and exaggerates it. It was a comment made to him by a local, it may well have been a throwaway line by a disgruntled resident, but it was enough for him to seize upon. He did say "I was told by..." He did not lie or make it up which was what the article implied.   Yes. He repeated it, almost certainly without checking.. but the point is that he said it at all. Another Dog Whistle.   57 minutes ago, Brew said: Robinson's somewhat esoteric programme is hardly mainstream media   7:30 pm. BBC.TV.  Not mainstream?  I don't know how many watched, but it attracted a lot of feedback and was something of a Car Crash for Farage, as Robinson took him apart and got him to open up about his economic ambitions and his views on Ukraine, the EU, Putin and the rest.  Sometimes, being a 'Rent a Gob' character backfires...

[Brew 5,510]

36 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

Not mainstream?

 

One TV channel is not mainstream in my view

36 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

Hardly.  Coutt's have no declared  political allegiance to any of their clients, but Farage has openly collaborated with  Trump and Bannon and expressed admiration for Putin.

 

But Coutts now deny that it was the reason. With no political allegiance, why ban someone who has? There are now two more cases where the customers were 'unaligned with its purpose' – which includes promoting diversity and addressing the climate crisis. Sounds political to me. The CEO Alison Rose had to resign and lost a £7.6 million payout.

One more point How can he damaged Couts if no one knows he banks there?

 

 

Soros, where does the truth lie?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros

[Oztalgian 3,420]

12 hours ago, Brew said:

Oz that's not what you asked, in fact there is no question at all in your first post (as quoted), however the answer to your subsequent post is yes. The details are here:

Oops, quite correct, I forgot the question, apologies, thanks for the info.

[Oztalgian 3,420]

12 hours ago, Brew said:

 

Electoral registration and absent vote applications | Electoral Commission

Sorry Brew, I don't see anything about what I understand as an absentee vote, postal vote, yes, proxy vote, yes but an absentee vote, can't find anything?

An absentee vote here is that you can go to any polling station in the state in which you are registered to vote and cast your vote even though you may be 500 kilometres from home. You can also do this at certain places interstate where you may be several thousand kilometres from where you normally vote. 

[Oztalgian 3,420]

By the time I go to bed tonight the result of the UK General Election will have probably been determined.

As an outsider looking in and given the last 14 years it appears that Labour will have a resounding victory.

The UK can only go forward under Labour if it -:

• Adopts a centrist position and stops pandering to the extreme left in the party.
• Gets illegal immigration under control, some hard decisions need to be made.
• Resists the temptation to spend on largesse. e.g unwarranted foreign aid, unfair tax breaks to individuals, companies and corporations.
• Restricts spending to what needs to be done and not what would be nice to do.
• Review and reduce non front facing employees in the public service and institutions e.g. NHS administrators etc.
• Takes back into public ownership key utilities i.e. Gas, Electricity distribution and generation, all water related services and key transport services e.g rail.
• If they have any sense at all they will overturn Brexit and re-enter Europe with revised rules, not sure if the EU will accept this.

 

A couple of more extreme changes that will help the future prosperity and restore the one vote one value principles.

• Abolish the current house of Lords and have an elected upper house, Senate? eg. have each of the 92 counties/shires elect say 4 members based on who gets the top numbers of votes of those standing for election. (they may even be from different parties). There are currently 783 eligible to sit in the House of Lords to approximate this it would be 8 from each county. Four members would be 368 in total, slightly more than half the number of the commons (650 members).
• Abandon the "First past the Post" voting system and move to some form of proportional representation voting. First past the Post makes it more likely that the country will get a parliament that does not represent the voting public. Many will be surprised that parts of the UK have been using some form of proportional representation for years. The main types of proportional representation are :-

1. The Additional Member System (AMS) currently used in the Scottish and Welsh parliaments and the London Assembly, a similar system is used in Germany and New Zealand (MMP). It is a mix of first past the post and party list voting.
2. The Single Transferable Vote (STV) used in local elections in Northern Ireland and Scotland and for the Northern Ireland Assembly. We use this system in Australia. You vote for candidates in order of preference i.e No 1 is your first preference and so on down the list of candidates numbering as few or as many as you wish.
3. Party List Proportional Representation. It is the most popular electoral system in the world. In this system each political party publishes a list of candidates for each area. In the closed list system, votes are given to the party the vote supports. In the open list system, the more votes a candidate gets the more likely they are to be in the list of party members that ultimately get elected. In a semi open list system, voters can vote for a candidate or a party. If you vote for a party under this system, you accept the order candidates as chosen by the party. Independents and single-issue candidates have to create a party list of one.

There are other methods too and if you want to read more then go to- 

www.electoral-reform.org.uk

 

[DJ360 6,781]

Oddly, I woke up early for me..despite only hitting the sack at 02:30. A day I've been looking forward to for 14 years, and not one to be wasted...
Awkwardly, I can't stay up too late tonight, as I have visitors arriving tomorrow. I might even record the all night coverage.. never done that before...

Lots of inane chatter on the Telly last night, led by one of Peston's lot as I recall..about how 'unfair' it would be if FPTP prevented Reform from gaining many seats... Oh dear what a pity, there.. there.. As I recall, at one election, I think it was Oct 1974, the Liberal Party got only 13 seats from 18% of the vote, c.f. Tory 277, with 36% of the vote and a Labour win. Them's the breaks.... Our system may be 'unfair', but it's no more unfair now than it's always been...

Which makes me wonder what the panel thinks will actually happen...

I wouldn't be surprised if the Tories hold more seats than predicted. Reform is difficult to call. Labour will obviously win with a very good majority.

[DJ360 6,781]

@Oztalgian

 

An awful lot to chew on there, but I'll make  couple of observations....

 

3 hours ago, Oztalgian said:

Adopts a centrist position and stops pandering to the extreme left in the party.

 

Well most would argue that Starmer has more than done that.  Certainly no 'pandering to the left.'

 

3 hours ago, Oztalgian said:

Gets illegal immigration under control, some hard decisions need to be made.

 

A focus on reducing the much larger Legal Immigration, be fixing our Education and Training system to reduce the need, would probably help a lot there. Tories focused on Boats, whilst actively increasing Legal Immigration through the idiocy of Brexit and ideological refusal to oblige employers to contribute to training... etc.

 

3 hours ago, Oztalgian said:

Takes back into public ownership key utilities i.e. Gas, Electricity distribution and generation, all water related services and key transport services e.g rail.

 

Not easy, but a worthwhile goal. Water, in particular, should never, ever, be privatised again.. ever...

 

3 hours ago, Oztalgian said:

If they have any sense at all they will overturn Brexit and re-enter Europe with revised rules, not sure if the EU will accept this.

 

That would bring further bleating from the Right, and the 'Brexit would have worked if properly implemented' mob.. a.k.a. Reform/Farage. 

I'd suggest that polling demonstrates a clear majority in favour of re-joining the EU, which could be put to another Referendum. Those bleating about 'The Will of The People' couldn't argue with that.  No Democratic decision should be binding forever.. that's why we have regular elections.. Neither should any referendum decision.

All above said, the EU is being shaken by the rise of the Far Right in Europe, which will likely have an impact.  It isn't all about the UK.

House of Lords reform, electoral reform.. I agree both are needed.

The first move IMHO, should be to re-establish the Independence of the Electoral Commission, cynically taken away by Johnson the wannabe Dictator. Second..massively review the patronage behind the 'jobs for the boys' nature of the current 'enoblement' farce.

Too much to deal with in one post.

[Jill Sparrow 10,426]

He would have had my vote!

 

 

[DJ360 6,781]

16 hours ago, Brew said:

One TV channel is not mainstream in my view

 

Then what is?  If you were talking some odd little obscure channel.. maybe.. but the BBC? Not mainstream? Your 'logic' defeats me.

16 hours ago, Brew said:

But Coutts now deny that it was the reason. With no political allegiance, why ban someone who has? There are now two more cases where the customers were 'unaligned with its purpose' – which includes promoting diversity and addressing the climate crisis. Sounds political to me. The CEO Alison Rose had to resign and lost a £7.6 million payout.

One more point How can he damaged Couts if no one knows he banks there?

 

You raise some good points there.  Certainly in the original case, of Farage, I could see where they were coming from, even if they handled it badly. If they are now defining themselves somehow differently..then we need to know what exactly is their 'purpose' and what is required to 'align with' it.

 

I have little sympathy for Alison Rose, whatever.  They all know they are stepping into a very murky pool, full of sharks, when they get into that level of banking and high finance. High rewards come with high risk.

 

16 hours ago, Brew said:

Soros, where does the truth lie?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros

 

I've read the whole of that entry, before I posted it yesterday.  It seems to me to support Soros' reputation as a philanthropist. True.. he's a bit of an oddity. He's often admitted to mistakes and most of his critics are what you'd expect. Dictators, the Political Right, and the cosy 'Establishment' of international investment and finance, who don't like his challenge to their position, or their Orthodoxy.

[benjamin1945 16,323]

May the best man (party) win...........oops sorry there aint one............

[Brew 5,510]

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Then what is?  If you were talking some odd little obscure channel.. maybe.. but the BBC? Not mainstream? Your 'logic' defeats me.

  I'm sure you know I don't consider the BBC to be esoteric, but one program of political analysis is, and when scheduled to compete with soap operas is not going to attract a massive audience. Mainstream media also includes the press in which there was very little.

 

Banking and banking accounts are supposed to be private so the Coutts affair is something of a mystery.

I'm sure Russian oligarchs are falling over themselves to promote diversity and climate change...

 

Soros I agree has given away millions however the sheer number of rumours and how you amass that amount of money makes me think there is no smoke without fire, particularly in relation to financial crises.

I've always been suspicious of Soros and others for their part in the 2008 crash.

 He used his Quantum Fund to sell billions of pounds and buy other currencies, creating a huge demand for other currencies and a sizable supply of pounds, which lowered the value of the pound in the market. (investopedia)

[DJ360 6,781]

5 minutes ago, Brew said:

I've always been suspicious of Soros and others for their part in the 2008 crash.

 He used his Quantum Fund to sell billions of pounds and buy other currencies, creating a huge demand for other currencies and a sizable supply of pounds, which lowered the value of the pound in the market. (investopedia)

 

He was doing what investors do, as, it seems was Sunak, and almost without doubt, Rees-Mogg. My reading of him is that he found, almost by accident, that he was 'good at', investment. But, unlike many others..he's given away more than 60% of what he's made, and pretty much ALL to causes which we'd both approve of.

In short, he's no worse than most of his kind, and much better than most.

[DJ360 6,781]

2 hours ago, benjamin1945 said:

May the best man (party) win...........oops sorry there aint one............

 

There's always the Andy Capp gambit...

 

Standing in front of the Doc in his vest, with a cig in his mouth..

 

Doc : " Best thing you can do is give up the beer, fags and fried food..."

Andy: " What's the second best?"

[Brew 5,510]

1 minute ago, DJ360 said:

 

He was doing what investors do, as, it seems was Sunak, and almost without doubt, Rees-Mogg. My reading of him is that he found, almost by accident, that he was 'good at', investment. But, unlike many others..he's given away more than 60% of what he's made, and pretty much ALL to causes which we'd both approve of.

In short, he's no worse than most of his kind, and much better than most.

 

But if he made his money by creating misery for millions of people? In a single trade in the early 1990s Soros shorted the British Pound and was termed 'the man who broke the Bank of England', making over $1 billion profit on a sinlge  trade. 

[DJ360 6,781]

6 minutes ago, Brew said:

 

But if he made his money by creating misery for millions of people? In a single trade in the early 1990s Soros shorted the British Pound and was termed 'the man who broke the Bank of England', making over $1 billion profit on a sinlge  trade. 

 

Yebbut.. £1billion is small change in that context.

Did he create the whole US 'sub prime' market, or play games with all of the 'toxic debt' which was at root of it all?

[Brew 5,510]

8 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

Did he create the whole US 'sub prime' market, or play games with all of the 'toxic debt' which was at root of it all?

No, but the sub-prime US market was not the only reason, it was the final

straw that broke the camel's back and soro had already weakened economies around world.

 

[Brew 5,510]

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

7 hours ago, Oztalgian said:

Gets illegal immigration under control, some hard decisions need to be made.

 

A focus on reducing the much larger Legal Immigration, be fixing our Education and Training system to reduce the need, would probably help a lot there. Tories focused on Boats, whilst actively increasing Legal Immigration through the idiocy of Brexit and ideological refusal to oblige employers to contribute to training... etc.

To be fair Col that's pure obfuscation and does not answer the question. How will fewer legals affect the illegals?

Davey hasn't a clue and after the weekend will get back in his box

The Greens probably want to give each of them a tree 

Farage thinks he can simply turn the boats round and send them back to France - muppet

Sunak wants to ship them off to Africa

Starmer wants to tackle the gangs? not a hope in hell, most of them are out of our jurisdiction. so how will he stop the boats and the loss of life in the channel?

Oz is right. Hard decisions are required

[philmayfield 6,312]

I was surprised to see the number of people going to our village hall to vote, both early morning and at lunchtime. It was similar when I drove through Fiskerton. I thought there would be an outbreak of voting apathy but certainly not in this area. 

[DJ360 6,781]

I went down and voted about 3 hours back. Polling Station is in a modern built former Methodist Chapel which is now the Parish Hall among other things.

Spotted my own pic among the Rogues Gallery of past  Parish Council Chairs and as I was looking at the 30+ year-old pic, one of the Polling Officers asked me "who's that? I laughed and explained it was me "at the height of my political power". She said: "It's a better mugshot than the rest... you look trustworthy .."
Made my day..

 

 I asked the Polling staff if they'd been busy.

"No, we were told to expect queues and plan how-to manage them, but the most we've had is four in at once."

 

Not sure if anything can be learned from that.

[Brew 5,510]

21 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

. She said: "It's a better mugshot than the rest... you look trustworthy .."

Did she tell   you her dogs name too?     

 

I wonder who you voted for??

 

[Oztalgian 3,420]

Nigel Farage has just been elected for the seat of Clacton winning by around 8,500 votes over the sitting Conservative. It was his 8th attempt at gaining a seat.

 

Closer to home Ashfield elected the first Reform UK Member of Parliament in Lee Anderson. The political chameleon was elected a Labour member of the local council in 2015, defected to the Conservatives in 2018 and was elected as the Conservative member for Ashfield in the 2019 General Election. In March 2024 was selected as the Reform candidate for Ashfield and was duly elected today by just over 5,500 votes.

The sitting MP For Broxtowe, Darren Henry (Conservative) has lost the seat to Juliet Campbell (Labour)

Rushcliffe has elected a Labour MP for the first time since 1966, James Naish (Labour) defeated the sitting Conservative member Ruth Edwards.

Labour holds Nottingham North and Kimberley, and Nottingham South.

[Oztalgian 3,420]

You can probably guess by now that I am a big election geek. I follow all elections with avid interest. My wife usually gets in what she calls "election snacks" as she retires to another room as I sit up into the wee small hours here. It is good to watch the results of a momentous election during daylight hours.

 

The Conservatives have held Newark, now the only Conservative seat in Nottinghamshire with six Conservatives losing their seats. Labour wins Sherwood Forest, takes Mansfield from the Conservatives and holds Nottingham East.

Labour wins Gedling and Bassetlaw from the Tories.

Across the country there appears to have been a number of "Portello Moments" where at least a dozen ministers and 8 cabinet ministers have lost their seats.

 

The major downside is that in their acceptance speeches the key Labour candidates came out with the same usual crap as the Conservatives did 14 years ago.

"Change Begins Now" appears to be the tag line.

We will govern for everyone regardless of how they voted.

The people have spoken and they are ready for change.

You have voted and it is now time for us to deliver.

To end the politics of performance and return to politics as public service.

As usual the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

 

Jeremey Corbyn, standing as an independent for Islington North has been elected.

It looks like the SNP has been reduced to six seats and there are no Conservative seats in Wales.

The Lib Dems appear to have done well

 

The turnout looks to have a 5 in front of the percentage.

Even though Labour will win their total number of votes is well down.

Apparently the BBC's election coverage was panned. I have been watching GB News, the only live free to air coverage we can get and surprisingly they have been concentrating on keeping us up to date with the results.

 

Now back to something far more important than an election .... Will England win on Sunday.