Anything Political

[Cliff Ton 10,009]

If you really must say something on any political subject, put it here.

 

Anything political which is posted in any other thread will be transferred to here.

[DJ360 6,391]

There is no British Communist party in the elections as far as I know.  The Greens will make a good showing, though I accept that may not translate in seats.  I'm voting Green because they are clearly pro Remain and their other policies are basically left of centre.

 

I'm not voting Labour because the Labour leadership has ignored the party majority membership, who want at least a vote on any agreed deal, or anything up to and including a cancellation of Brexit.

 

The whole point of this election from a UK and a Brexit point of view is that all parties will take messages from the results and the voter share. The best outcome for me would be a massive showing for any and all Remain parties.

[DJ360 6,391]

10 minutes ago, philmayfield said:

Stark choice between fascists or communists!? I still think there are lots more of us in the middle ground.

 

Is that Remain middle ground or Leave middle ground. ? 

 

[philmayfield 5,513]

Well Remain middle ground obviously. Corbyn's not a communist then?

[DJ360 6,391]

Of course he isn't.  He's certainly on the left of the party and he's a socialist idealist, but he's working within a democratic pluralist system and not planning on overthrowing it. 

 

All the ones making noises about overthrowing the system are on the far right.  That's what is so worrying.  We all know what happened that last time anybody succeeded with that in Europe.

 

And to cap that we've got people here and throughout the country, who, when faced with facts about the far right plotters pushing for a no deal Brexit, are just sticking their fingers in their ears and going 'lalalalalala'.  Ask those same people to quote you one single verifiable benefit of leaving and they can't.

[DJ360 6,391]

4 hours ago, radfordred said:

You have to be careful who's links you click on Margie & Gem! Our postal votes where ticked & back & in the letterbox almost before they hit the mat.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-47529183/sleaford-mods-on-brexit-austerity-and-political-disillusionment

[DJ360 6,391]

 

Double post. Sorry.

 

 

[Rob.L 1,049]

Just hearing that a certain politician is unable to leave his “battle bus” in Rochester,  Kent as his team have spotted three men “armed with milkshakes” nearby.

 

Politics gets dafter by the day.

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9132151/nigel-farage-brexit-bus-people-milkshakes/

[DJ360 6,391]

9 hours ago, HSR said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greybull_Capital

Have a track record of this sort of behaviour..400m investment.. boll**ks. Certainly makes me think who are their shareholders!

 

Yes. Don't expect the Tories to do anything about it.  They're all up to their necks in this sort of thing.

[DJ360 6,391]

14 hours ago, Rob.L said:

Just hearing that a certain politician is unable to leave his “battle bus” in Rochester,  Kent as his team have spotted three men “armed with milkshakes” nearby.

 

Politics gets dafter by the day.

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9132151/nigel-farage-brexit-bus-people-milkshakes/

 

I don't condone any kind of political violence, but Farage, his gang and fellow traveller's such as Yaxley-Lennon, are ultra right wing bigots masquerading as representatives of the people.  They are outside of anything remotely qualifying as 'decent' politics and it's not surprising people react the way they do.  They and their hate speech were undoubtedly an influence on the nutter who murdered Jo Cox.

 

They are getting off lightly compared to the treatment meted out to Mosley's Fascists in Cable Street London and Queens Drive Liverpool.

[catfan 14,782]

I don't accept any violence, political or otherwise.

[FLY2 10,106]

God Almighty Col, I think you've made your point. However, we all know our views and opinions now, and no one is going to change.

[radfordred 6,278]

I've done my bit to restore democracy, fingers crossed. 

[DJ360 6,391]

1 hour ago, FLY2 said:

God Almighty Col, I think you've made your point. However, we all know our views and opinions now, and no one is going to change.

 

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind Fly.  But at least one person has admitted to learning something they didn't know about some of the characters infesting British politics lately. Just think of me as a purveyor of rather less than obvious information.

[DJ360 6,391]

I just did an exit poll on a sample of one...... that being me. After some considerable persuasion I admitted to myself that I voted Green.

I derived no pleasure from seeing the name  'Tommy Robinson' at the bottom on the voting slip. Still it was at the bottom, accompanied by nothing else.. not even the word 'independent' which of course he isn't, because he's being funded by Ukip, among others.

 

[DJ360 6,391]

45 minutes ago, radfordred said:

I've done my bit to restore democracy, fingers crossed. 

 

Would the Sleaford Mods approve? 

 

[radfordred 6,278]

It's the music & rawness I follow, Jason hates my Fred Perrys & DM's I wouldn't be seen dead in his Paul Smith clobber, ignore it mate it's albout the money, seen the big house he's just brought in Bridgford? 

[FLY2 10,106]

Col, how will we ever know the truth ? I certainly don't believe everything I read, or hear on the news.

You are entitled to your views, but it's the incessant Tory bashing, the name calling, and the totally inaccurate view of Brexiteers, that's becoming a mite tedious.

They're not all thick, xenophobic racist oafs. The majority of folk who voted leave, did so for a multitude of reasons.

You state that there is an increase of fascism, and right wing views throughout the world. Well maybe, just maybe, it's because some folks are sick of having multiculturalism, diversity and whatever other fancy terminology can be contoured up, rammed down their throats, day in day out by the obsequious press and media.

As I've said many times, I voted Remain, but I'm seriously beginning to have second thoughts.

[catfan 14,782]

An excellent point well made FLY !

[DJ360 6,391]

6 hours ago, FLY2 said:

Col, how will we ever know the truth ? I certainly don't believe everything I read, or hear on the news.

You are entitled to your views, but it's the incessant Tory bashing, the name calling, and the totally inaccurate view of Brexiteers, that's becoming a mite tedious.

They're not all thick, xenophobic racist oafs. The majority of folk who voted leave, did so for a multitude of reasons.

You state that there is an increase of fascism, and right wing views throughout the world. Well maybe, just maybe, it's because some folks are sick of having multiculturalism, diversity and whatever other fancy terminology can be contoured up, rammed down their throats, day in day out by the obsequious press and media.

As I've said many times, I voted Remain, but I'm seriously beginning to have second thoughts.

 

 

I understand your point Fly but I think either you and others have misunderstood me, or I've not represented myself properly. I'm in this thread to discuss politics. I don't recall ever calling Brexit voters thick, racist or anything similar, but there is no doubt in my mind that the following are true:

 

1.  Many people were conned by the Leave campaign into believing that all of their troubles in relation to employment, housing, etc., were caused by the cost of our membership of the EU, and/or by migrant workers when in fact much of the blame lies with the international speculators who caused the 2008 crash, and the Austerity which the Tories imposed in response.

 

2. Racism and Xenophobia are at the heart of Farage and other extreme Brexiteers message. I could easily post a single image which proves this.  I've not accused the membership here, or either Tory or Labour supporters here of racism etc. The point I keep making is that the Leave campaign offered a simple solution to a complex problem and that in my opinion many people were too willing to believe it.  None of the Unicorns have arrived, yet many cling to the idea that Brexit is the answer.

 

Tory bashing?  Again, I reserve the right to rip the guts out of the bunch of self-seeking malevolent incompetents currently running the country and hiding behind a Conservative label.  I respect ( but profoundly disagree with)  'small c' conservatism, and look back almost with fondness to the time before Thatcher, when both Right and Left seemed to care about this country and all of its people.

 

You ask how we will ever know the truth?   Well certainly not from the papers.  I tend to go on an assessment of all the evidence before me and a belief that simple solutions to complex problems are usually wrong. I've done my best to base my arguments on facts and evidence.  I've repeatedly asked others to provide evidence, or even just logical argument, to support their Brexit stance, but I don't get any such response. I'm still waiting for someone.. anyone.. to provide me with a list of the benefits of leaving the EU.

 

As for voting according to 'personal conviction'. Well of course, but surely you want to vote for someone who shares your 'personal convictions' as broadly as possible?  That's why I linked to the info on the Brexit Party candidates.. to inform people.  As for 'Tommy 'Christopher Steven Yaxley-Lennon' Robinson' .. I don't share any of his 'convictions' and he's plenty to choose from.. mostly for fraud, assault and contempt of court... 

 

Finally, and maybe more importantly.  This thread was expressly created to allow political discussion but participation is optional.  I'm passionate about politics and it's clear that a few others here are too.  I enjoy the process of argument/counter argument etc.......  It's not personal and for e.g., I disagree with Red about practically everything, but I like his 'ultra pragmatic' style.

 

It's all good fun.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DJ360 6,391]

On 5/22/2019 at 2:30 PM, Commo said:

I'm so pleased that all the others such a virtuous bunch of loveable righteous folk!!

Methinks your prejudice might just be showing itself!

 

Commo, my prejudice is as good as yours anyday!

 

I'm a democratic socialist.. I've said it many times and I don't hide it.  All I've done is reveal information about the people who stood for election to the EU for Brexit Party, but have no policies other than 'leave'.

 

If you want to put forward evidence about 'all the others'..feel free.

[radfordred 6,278]

8 hours ago, DJ360 said:

I disagree with Red about practically everything

 

Thats made my day  

 

I have two younger relatives that we can only scowl at each other at family get togethers, with my Son the only outcome would have to be shirt off, bare knuckle in the backyard, I'm more than sure 10,20,30 years down the line they will be saying to each other "k'in hell your Dad was right, quick dig him up" 

 

[Commo 1,291]

DJ 360, your arrogance is breathtaking  in your assumption that you have any idea of the level of MY prejudice.

[philmayfield 5,513]

Well the end of May will be on the seventh of June this year. The months just get longer!

[DJ360 6,391]

Just beat me to it Rob but..

 

Who mentioned borrowing?  Not me.. but since you raise it.. 

 

https://fullfact.org/economy/labour-and-conservative-records-national-debt/

 

Tory Governments always claim that Labour borrow too much, spend too much and tax people too much.  The facts don't really bear this out.

 

But also, it's a false call to try to see the National economy in the same simple terms as a household budget, because it's far more complex. I don't claim to understand it in depth, but I know that much.

 

For instance, after the 2008 crash (NOT caused by Brown), we were heading into recovery, but the Tories succeeded in blaming Labour for the crash and sneaking into power.

 

Osborne decided instead to impose austerity and punish everyone in this country, but especially the poor, for the crimes of the rich international banks and corporations.  Of course this malice and idiocy, which is still continuing, just crashed the economy and reduced the tax take, making things worse, but it also handed an increasingly right wing Tory Party the opportunity to impose its anti Public Sector, and Anti Public Services 'ideology' and set about dismantling the welfare state and replacing it, and also local Govt., with seedy 'outsourced' contractors, with short term, piecemeal and incoherent objectives.

 

We've got more people employed, but I think a glance at the criteria for regarding someone as employed ..... (not easy to 'drill down to'..)

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/fulltimeparttimeandtemporaryworkersseasonallyadjustedemp01sa

 

....quickly shows that much of the claimed employment is part time, or 'in work training'.  It's also well known that many people are trying to run several jobs, often on 'zero hours contracts', just to stay afloat, and many still need 'in work benefits' to survive.

 

It's not good is it?

 

We could, instead, have borrowed at the historically low interest rates of the time and put money into repairing our crumbling infrastructure etc.  This would of course also have created real employment and increased the tax take.

 

We also have a skills shortage in this country, very largely down to a failure by both Govt. and industry to properly organise and fund training.  So, as announced only today, certain professions/trades are going to be added to the list of 'shortage occupations' which will allow people from abroad to come here to work if they are skilled in those areas.  That to me is looking like a deliberate plot to import cheaper labour.  And of course as fewer are daft enough to come here from the EU, those who come will most likely be more noticeably 'foreign.'  A bit of an 'own goal' that.

 

It's really not going well for the right is it?