blackout

[Pixie 162]

Did anyone else watch it on channel 4 last night? I don't usually watch much tv once little ones in bed but it had me gripped! Very thought provoking...

[DAVIDW 1,704]

I watched some of it when it was on first time . A bit too depressing to watch again .

Apparently a view of Kwik Save dates it , as they went out of business years ago .

I expect in the inner cities , looting would soon start when all the lights are out and alarms don't work .

We've got enough tinned stuff for a few weeks unless some lout breaks in and nicks it , still have an open fire and a bit of wood but I guess lack of water would be a problem if theres no rain .

Makes you wonder how our ancestors managed before electricity was invented not that long ago .

[alisoncc 379]

Don't think it was connected with our blackout last night. Reckon half the city of Melbourne went out.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/09/09/22/48/mass-blackout-across-eastern-melbourne

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Over here, stateside, there has been a couple of committees in the government looking at possible threats to our grid, one is EMP's from nuclear weapons detonated high in the atmosphere above the US by an enemy, which would cause mass destruction of semi conductor electronics, the other from a massive solar ejection which is well over due, hitting earth...

Out of the two, the solar one would be more deadly, as it would cause transformers to overload and burn out, the fear being the very large transformers at power stations and at the city end of the transmission grid take months to rewind...BUT, how can you rewind transformers, stove and varnish them without power???

Then there is the problems of transport, even big trucks these days have electronic fuel injection, dead in the water.

An EMP from either source would render living in cities impossible, no sewage, no drinking water, no fuel, food gone, crime at dangerous levels, no communications, ie phones, radio television.

Could a city survive a few days, weeks months or maybe longer, I doubt it, once they talk months, I'm afraid civilization would have broken down, only those in rural areas would survive.

The NBC had a series a couple of years back called Revolution, you can watch it on the internet if you search for it, the second series starts this Autumn...Gives you a good idea how society would cope without electricity.

[loppylugs 8,429]

Read recently that our govmt is planning some kind of drill for just such an eventuality in November. Scary, wouldn't trust 'em to change a flashlight battery! Time to buy a generator, but then I'd have no fuel for it. More fearmongering I guess.

[Pixie 162]

It is scary. It's a time when neighbors would have to really pull together. I have a lot of tins. Mainly veg & I allways buy stuff in bulk (loo roll, kitchen roll, animals food, cleaning products - possibly not much help if it was to ever happen)

Iv got plenty of knitted blankets and spare quilts to keep us warm. But the lack of water would do me in, no showers/baths or cups of tea??

Something I liked very much, a very subtle 'moral of the story if you like' was we all or most judged the guy with the tag on his ankle, possibly judged him for being so persistent to help, maybe assumed he wanted to cause harm. And the family man, the person we should all trust because he is looking oht for his family. It shown us how the man we judged the most ended hp being the most kind hearted and the man you'd think should of been ended up beating someone half to death over some rice.

Did anyone notice how the middle class fellow found olives and cous cous in the super market. Abit of steriotyping there.

[alisoncc 379]

Over thirty five years ago I was attending a conference whilst staying at a hotel in Beaverton, just outside Portland Oregon. With nothing to do of an evening I wandered into a function room where there was a meeting and presentation taking place unconnected with my conference.

These people were planning on how they would survive the impending end of civilisation. Must admit it was quite an interesting evening. Got talking to one guy who asked me a question "How was I planning to survive when the West coast of the US fell into the sea, and the tsunami that would follow". On returning to Oz, I came to realise that all the oil refining plants here were built only a few metres above sea level on the East coast. Wipe that lot out and civilisation here would be history.

Assuming that any such emergency might last a few years, we bought a couple of hunting bows with lots of arrows, these had special hunting arrow heads. Bought an awl with lots of thread to enable us to sew animal leather to make shoes, etc. Plus lots of other stuff, and we organised a couple of rucksacks that we could pack in a matter of minutes, enabling us to get out of the city ASAP, making lists of everything we would need to take with us and where each item was normally located. Still got the awl and string.

We actually took the whole thing quite seriously, as at the time geologists were predicting a major earthquake around the San Andreas fault. And if half of California had just fallen into the sea, we, in Oz, couldn't expect much help from overseas.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

It's a real possibility though Dave, not fearmongering...There is no way any amount of practice tests will help, how on earth can a government plan for what would be the worst catastrophic event in human history??? Even they would have no communications in the real world..

There is a satellite in deep space that monitors the sun 24/7, in the event of a solar ejection, I'd imagine NASA would notify the electric utilities, who would in turn shut the whole grid down, including unload the power station alternators and run them down to just slow rotation to protect the windings.

The last major solar event occurred in the mid 1800's and the 1920's?? Of course, not much was affected, the 1800's one fused the internet of the day causing many grass fires across the US with burned out telegraph wires, reports from telegraphers of heavy electric shocks from operators. The one in the 1920's?? didn't cause many problems besides major radio blackouts and telephone circuits being burned out.

Today is a different story, even an X5 class flare creates dire worries for commercial satallite owners and insurance companies, satellite operators turn their machines around with the shield facing the sun....A few years back a couple of billion dollar satellites were fried in X5 flares...

Anything bigger than X5 can wipe out semi conductor junctions, which means almost everything in our modern world, from the onboard computers controlling everything in a modern auto, to the fuel injection on big rigs and train locomotives, from our humble telephone to cell phones, from our radio to TV stations, saturate transformer cores burning them out.

This isn't science fiction, this is reality, it's just a matter of when?? It could happen any time, we are at the peak of the solar cycle, and it's baffling, sun spots have been few to none!!! There have been a couple of major mass ejections in the last few months, luckily into deep space away from us...

But like earthquakes, probable but unpredictable, so how can we prepare??? I could sat eff knows, nobody really knows what we can do, but I'd hate to live in a city and witness the results when it happens....

Look on the bright side, we will have the most spectacular northern and southern lights display in our lifetime, visible from everywhere on the planet by everyone, too bad our digital cameras will be burned out, so we won't be able to record the event....LOL

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

It is scary. It's a time when neighbors would have to really pull together. I have a lot of tins. Mainly veg & I allways buy stuff in bulk (loo roll, kitchen roll, animals food, cleaning products - possibly not much help if it was to ever happen)

Iv got plenty of knitted blankets and spare quilts to keep us warm. But the lack of water would do me in, no showers/baths or cups of tea??

Something I liked very much, a very subtle 'moral of the story if you like' was we all or most judged the guy with the tag on his ankle, possibly judged him for being so persistent to help, maybe assumed he wanted to cause harm. And the family man, the person we should all trust because he is looking oht for his family. It shown us how the man we judged the most ended hp being the most kind hearted and the man you'd think should of been ended up beating someone half to death over some rice.

Did anyone notice how the middle class fellow found olives and cous cous in the super market. Abit of steriotyping there.

BUT, you fail to see the hordes of scavengers who will be thugs and they want your food etc too.....Law and order would be none existent.

Learn how to use "proxy IP addresses" then use a USA IP address to access HULU, the online movie/TV series provider, look for "Revolution" the NCB TV series and watch it all the way through, I think there were five episodes, you will get a true to life picture of what it would be like without electricity....

[LizzieM 9,539]

I am a born worrier but there's no point in worrying about something you can do damn all about. There are enough things we can fret over that we can make a difference with.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

The best I can hope for, without grid electricity, is I will have my solar/wind system up and running, I have a few things to purchase yet, mostly cables and stainless steel hardware, some emt conduit etc...

The battery room/Inverter room is built with a "Faraday Cage", ie it's screened and grounded heavily.

My water comes from 500 feet below our feet from a bore with an electric pump at the bottom.

I'm in the process of collecting heirloom seed, that I store in sealed plastic bags kept in the fridge, soon to be stored in the freezer.

But that's not for emergencies, just basic gardening.

Intend to have about 300 gallons of ag fuel stored, which should last me around three or more years..Diesel doesn't deteriorate like gasoline does, it will have anti fungal additives dropped into the 55 gallon barrels..

My tractor has the old fashioned mechanical fuel injection, with no electronics attached to the engine, the only components likely to be damaged in an EMP are the battery charging components.

Could I survive???? Dunno, but I am well armed and have plenty of ammunition to last a fair while, we have rabbits, deer and other game to provide meat, I don't relish the idea of skinning and gutting wild game, but out of necessity I'll adapt.

We do have a well stocked larder, but not enough for a catastrophic event like being without power for many months to years.

Besides, I think if we talk a year without power, society will de evolve a couple of hundred years, billions will die world wide, those that survive will have to learn to live like our ancestors did....Am I worried, not really, I take things as they come, when it happens, not much I can do to prevent it, so will have to "go with the flow" so to speak.

[tomlinson 879]

A bit of alarm and depondency is bread and butter to the media. I remember years ago a power cut occurring in the middle of a certain popular T.V. series. I went into the back garden and a neighbour appeared asking, " You seen owt o' that bloody 'Invisible Man" !!!

[FLY2 10,109]

I'd have no idea what to do. Probably put on my fav CD and grab my bottle of Jamesons and wait for the hoards of chavs from the local Council Estate to come looting. Oh no leccy, then I'd arm myself and lie in wait for the first shaven headed, tattooed t**t to come over the road and oh sod it I'll just check the larder and count the tins and candles.

[FLY2 10,109]

I used to enjoy that programme called The Survivors that was on 30 odd years ago.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

I've had a taste of nearly a week without power in mid winter, we had a major icestorm that crippled several states. Luckily our heating is via wood, we had plenty of lamp oil for lights and a generator to run the fridge and freezer for a few hours a day to stop our food spoiling.

We did hear of folks in Tennesse being without power for six weeks over that storm.... Good taste of what can and does happen, we are all at Mother natures mercy..

BTW, that storm left us without phones of any sort due to auto exchanges batteries going dead after 48 hours, we were totally cut off, roads impassible with two to three inches of pure ice coating them..Cell phones down due to battery backup dying too.

The upside, when the sun was out everything was so pretty coated with a thick layer of ice.

[darkazana 1,736]

I used to enjoy that programme called The Survivors that was on 30 odd years ago.

Me too. I thought of that when I first read this post. The remake from a couple of years ago with Max Beasley was quite good too. Certainly made you think about the outcome of an apocalypse and how you would cope without what we nowadays regard as basic essentials. Think that's why I always make sure I have an open fireplace where ever I live and grow my own veg, a sort of starting point!! I live in the countryside too, which helps, hedgerows are full of alternative foods....just watch out for the deadly nightshade.

[alisoncc 379]

Oz has huge tracts of national parks inland, which are wholly devoid of human habitation. Unless you can protect your own stockpiles, reckon the best bet is to head for one and get as far away as possible from the ravenous hordes. So our plan was to head inland within a couple of hours of any catastrophy, and well before fuel runs out. Just drive in as straight a line as possible away from any city or town. This does necessitate being able to get together everything you might need in less than half an hour. You won't have time to look for things.

Amongst the things we had ready to go were our hunting bows and arrows, non-consumable fire lighting kit, compasses and laminated maps, a few books on first aid, basic agriculture, meat and leather preparation, etc. Essentially everything that would have allowed us to survive for a couple of years in a wilderness with no other human contact. Had also made fittings to enable us to mount our baby daughters car seat on a golf trolley. If we were going to have to walk some distance through a wilderness area, a golf trolley was a far better bet than a stroller. Had determined that guns and ammunition would be too heavy to carry, and once you run out of ammo a gun's not much use, hence the bows and arrows. Arrows are retrievable and can be re-used.

The only foodstuffs we were planning on taking would have been just sufficient for the first couple of days, after that we had to live off the land. There were more important things to carry than food. Myself and partner spent hours and hours discussing and planning what we would do. It was amost interesting project for months.

[Pixie 162]

It's so scary to think, especially as terrorism is still going on and will continue till god knows when. With all the technology, people can hack or cyber attack anything with a hard drive.

Reading through the posts, I feel very unprepared. But then I think, do we need to be? On one hand it seems very irrational but on the other it seems a sensible and perfectly rational thing to be prepared for.

[DAVIDW 1,704]

Never fished in my life but living about 5 miles from the coast guess I would have to join the rest on the rocks with a rod but would I get mugged for my tiddler on the way home ?

I keep hearing that seaweed is good for you too !

Just remembered , have a nearly full calor gas bottle so could use the BBQ for a day or two so might be able to mash some tea even if theres nothing to cook !

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Forget terrorism, I tend to think nature will be the culprit, nobody can predict what nature can throw at us, whether a huge solar flare, a new strain of virus mutated from others, then there's the possibility of a new ice age starting.... At least should one of those occur we could walk south closer to the equator, bit hard for you lot way up in northern latitudes..

In my way of thinking, if terrorists had wanted to throw us back into the stone age, they'd have done it by now. Most countries national grids are vulnerable to terrorist attacks, strategically placed explosives placed every mile or so and detonated by cell phones could plunge most countries into darkness for weeks or months.

A section of the 500Kv grid failed somewhere up in Oregon a couple of years back, a tower failed, brought a couple of hundred miles of supergrid down to ground level...Took over a year to build new towers, stabilize the rest of the towers either side of the collapse.

That's how vulnerable the grid is!!!! And I'm pretty sure most terrorists are well aware of the grids mechanical vulnerability...

[colly0410 1,189]

I wonder if the solar panels you see on the roofs will generate without a grid connection? Don't know if they have to be synced to the grid or whether they can be free running stand alone gubbins. I like to keep the petrol tank topped up, I can remember the chaos in the 2000 petrol/diesel shortage, the in-laws were stranded at the coast with not enough petrol to get home & we couldn't fetch them as we didn't have enough to get there & back..

[alisoncc 379]

Forget terrorism, I tend to think nature will be the culprit, nobody can predict what nature can throw at us, whether a huge solar flare, a new strain of virus mutated from others, then there's the possibility of a new ice age starting.... At least should one of those occur we could walk south closer to the equator, bit hard for you lot way up in northern latitudes..

That's how vulnerable the grid is!!!! And I'm pretty sure most terrorists are well aware of the grids mechanical vulnerability...

SCADA (supervisory control and data acquisition) systems are used to manage power substations. There has been some drama in a few countries when it was realised that the vast proportion of systems installed have been provided by Chinese companies. Companies with links to their government. The Chinese can switch off most power grids as and when it suits them, as no one knows what hidden routines there are in the software. And all are connected to the Internet. UPS's (Uninterruptable Power Supply) have limited duration as they are battery powered - a few hours only. And diesel generators are dependant upon adequate supplies of diesel. See how long our civilisation lasts without electricity.

[loppylugs 8,429]

Re #8 Hi john. Didn't mean to suggest that the possibility of a collapse of the grid is just fearmongering. I know all too well that this is a very real possibility. Just seems that the MSM seem to want to keep folks in a continuous state of fear. Folks who are very fearful are easier to control.

My major concern after such an event would be as you and others have suggested. Hoards of the great unwashed looking to loot whatever they could. After a day or two when they realized they might starve it would be the food supplies of those who had enough sense to stock up with a few items that store well for a long time.

We have become far too dependant on our electrical equipment. After a prolonged outage I have read that nuclear power stations could melt down as there would be no cooling available any longer. Several Fukushima's here could get very interesting very quickly.

Oh well! Now for a good night's sleep.

[poohbear 1,360]

'The meek shall inherit the Earth'...my foot.

More likely the one with the gun. In Britain that would be the State...in America...every bugger.

[carni 10,094]

Lizzie #10

Me too, But i don't dwell on this one to much because it is out of my control, we can do all the suggestions of stocking up on goods and bottled water etc. But for the likes of me and millions more who are alive because of the fantastic medication we are on, if we make it through the initial cause of the catastrophe and the looting and every thing else to awful to waste the day frightening our selves with, we only have 2 months supply of prescription medication at most, and then What.

Live for today