colly0410

Black holes & quantum physics.

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Hopefully the finding of these exotic particles will shed more light on the very forming of our universe... even Bulwell!!

Naahh. There is absolutely no rational explanation for Bulwell.

:)

Col

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A theory is when someone has an idea how something works, no one has the foggiest clue how dark matter & dark energy works although they know that they both exist. There's no theory of what happened before the big bang coz no one has a clue. Phlogiston was a theory of how they thought fire worked at that time, it made sense at the time. Dark energy & dark matter make no scientific sense at all at the moment, they've been trying hard to find an answer but nowt has turned up yet..

Well yes. Basically a theory is a tested hypothesis which, at least for now, appears ot explain things. A hypothesis, which is more representative of where we are re: Dark Matter and Dark Energy is a suggested explanation, which if it could be tested, might become a Theory,

But. I can't agree that 'they know that they both exist' This is just not the case. Both Dark Energy and Dark Matter are 'hypothetical'. They are constructs which may offer an explanation for 'gaps' in current understanding. Or not. :)

No proof here, but my money is on all the ideas being pushed too far into a corner, which is why I referenced phlogiston.

We shall see. It's all very interesting.

Col.

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I read a book a while back called 'Gravity's engine' & it explained how they knew about dark matter only because of it's gravity's effect on the rotation of galaxies: At the speed they're rotating they should fly apart, but they don't, also gravitational lensing is more powerful than theory predicts it should be. So they sort of invented the phrase 'dark matter' for the extra gravity that seems to exist. The phrase 'dark energy' was invented in 1998 when they noticed that the universe's expansion seems to be speeding up instead of slowing down. These things keep me awake at night then I wonder why I'm tired the next day, lol..

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So what we are seeing is a case where the observed universe does not behave in the way that our current understanding of it says it should.

It follows that either our understanding is wrong (hence the postulation of 'dark' things to 'correct' our understanding.)

Or..our observation is wrong.

It's always possible that rather than there being something there that we are not seeing, what we are seeing is not what is there. IYSWIM :)

But then I believe it was Einstein who said: 'If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.'

Here's one for you.

It seems to me that we are presently basing all of our hypotheses and theories of the universe on the assumption that there has to be a beginning and an end. I reckon we are pre-conditioned to think in this way because we ourselves have a physical beginning and end (leaving out religious ideas about eternal life etc.)

So, we have been busy looking for a 'beginning' at least since the 'Big Bang' theory won out over Hoyle's 'Steady State' theory.

So far, our observations seem to bear out our theory. But, we are having to work harder to make the observations match the theory and the cracks are beginning to show..

Could be Phlogiston all over again... :)

Col

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It did say in the New Scientist article that they might have to think again about astro-physics as some things just don't fit I.E. Dark matter. They are going to build a more sensitive dark matter detector, but they said if dark matter is still a 'no show' then they'll have to go to plan B. Trouble is there is no plan B. I'd laugh if it turns out to be phlogiston. That'd be natures biggest laugh wouldn't it? Lol..

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All I can say is "God knows!"

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Wish he/she/it would tell us/me, then I could sleep at night without having to think about these mysterious mystery's. I used to think about Olivia Newton John in bed, but, err, that's a different subject..

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It did say in the New Scientist article that they might have to think again about astro-physics as some things just don't fit I.E. Dark matter. They are going to build a more sensitive dark matter detector, but they said if dark matter is still a 'no show' then they'll have to go to plan B. Trouble is there is no plan B. I'd laugh if it turns out to be phlogiston. That'd be natures biggest laugh wouldn't it? Lol..

They would probably have to call phlogiston something else in the hope that we wouldn't notice ;)

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#182

When I can't sleep at night, which isn't very often, I play the alphabet game. This means I have to find 10 boys' names beginning with each letter of the alphabet and if I manage to get from A to Z I then have to find ten girls' names beginning with each letter of the alphabet. If I manage to do all that and have still not gone to sleep, it's usually time to get up and go to work!

It could also be 10 villages or towns in the UK or 10 street names in Nottingham beginning with each letter of the alphabet. It works a treat... but then so does red wine!

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Deleted.

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They would probably have to call phlogiston something else in the hope that we wouldn't notice ;)

I can see it now.... 'Scientists discover Notsigolhp! It explains everything!!'

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Here's one to keep you awake: If you travel at the speed of light for a hundred, thousand,million, billion, trillion, zillion years, you still will not get to the end of space. It is infinite.How is that possible?

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Here's one to keep you awake: If you travel at the speed of light for a hundred, thousand,million, billion, trillion, zillion years, you still will not get to the end of space. It is infinite.How is that possible?

Chulla, just accept it.

The alternative is that beyond space, there is something else that isn't space, or isn't anything. And what's beyond that?

I can only handle it by thinking it's not about an infinitely large space, but an endless space. Different thing. Mobius rings, toruses etc.

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In my brain space must be infinitely large with no end, (same thought's as Chulla) because if it did end what is beyond the end? There would always be sumat or even nowt beyond the end. If it does end where would it be & how would we know we'd got there? When you get to the end of England you know as there is a sign saying "Welcome to Scotland." But if the sign blew down you'd never know you come to 'the end.'

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The idea that space is endless and that it has to be cannot be right. I am wondering if there is a fourth dimension that we just cannot comprehend yet. How this explains infinity I have no idea, but if there is no such thing as infinity, as in this case, then then it has to be another dimension. Work it out tonight in bed, Colly, and let us know by the weekend.

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Another thing I was thinking about in bed last night was the 'flat earth society' if you want to be confused go on their website. I was reading the forum part, I laughed out loud at some of the things I read..

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They have just found that classical physics & quantum physics are even further apart than thought. They were hoping that at molecular sizes they'd find evidence that quantum physics would affect classical physics & form a connection, but alas no. They had atoms with an opposite spin to each other falling in a vacuum to see how gravity affected them. They were expecting them to fall at a slightly different speeds coz of their different spins, but no, they fell at exactly the same speed. So that has buggered things up big time; again..  

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#191

 

I suspect there are many more than 4 dimensions. There may be an infinite number of dimensions within the multiverse, perhaps each containing a replica of each of us who is totally different in personality or circumstances. For instance, there may be a version of me who has ten children and hates cats...I hope I don't meet her! There may be a version of benjamin1945 who is a misogynist! 

 

I don't think we are capable of comprehending such concepts in our present form and that is probably a good thing.

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It must be frustrating being a theoretical physics bod: you'd have a brilliant idea about sumat, & then it'd turn to dust in front of your eyes. Mind you I was a driving instructor & that could be frustrating when a pupil  forgot to brake at a red light or tried to run a pedestrian over on a zebra crossing. Duel controls, best invention ever.

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#196

 

Perhaps we are like bees or ants. We are each separate beings with a little knowledge and understanding of our own but, at a higher and less comprehensible level, we are actually one brain or intelligence which may exist in all dimensions at the same time.

 

These concepts have always exercised my own dollop of very inadequate grey matter too. Needless to say, I haven't found the answer!

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Hi Colly.

 

Let me say right up front.  I am not a flat earther!!!!  Just so there's no misunderstanding.  :rolleyes:

 

That said.  What often occurs to me is that we are creatures of our upbringing and environment.  From my earliest days in school there was a globe in the classroom.  That was the world-view from which we were taught.  I did not question it.  We were shown an experiment with a ball and a flashlight to show us how the rotation of the sphere results in the succession of night and day.  When Russia launched the first satellite we were shown via diagrams how it circled the sphere of earth.  No one questioned it, including me.

 

In training for  the electrical trade we were taught electron theory, which has had some revisions concerning electron flow etc. even since those days.

 

One might say we are programmed from a very early age to believe certain things about science and the world around us.  To question them is to invite ridicule or worse among our peers.  I will agree that some get certain ideas and will either twist facts or ignore them altogether to support their pet theory.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say that we should not reject any theory out of hand because some whackos happen to believe it.

 

I have read some of the flat earth websites and I find some of it hard to swallow and at my age I'm not about to be converted, but it deserves some kind reflection.  Many believe the Bible teaches a flat earth view.  Personally I think that is stretching it a bit.  It is difficult to make a solid case for either position based on what is written there.  At the end of the day its not a big deal but interesting nonetheless.

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What I liked about science at school was when the teachers (Mrs Ogsten & Mr Chalkly at Trent Bridge) taught us something she or he would try & prove it by an experiment & let us kids have a go. One I remember well was an electric bell in a vacuum jar that went silent when all the air was pumped out, but you could clearly see the bell clapper clapping away. Then slowly break the vacuum & the ringing came back & got louder, I think I was hooked on science from that day on... I'm impressed with the honesty of the atom drop scientists I mentioned above to admit they got a result they did not expect or hope for, they must have been gutted that nature didn't do what they thought it should, but that's science for you...

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The only science experiment I remember being demonstrated at school involved a vertical flask of water into which the teacher dripped a purple liquid a drop at at time. He did this with the water not getting coloured until suddenly all of the water instantly changed to the colour of purple. What the coloured liquid was I cannot remember, or why the liquids should react in such a way. Anyone know?

 

I am always reminded of this experiment when I hear and read of global air pollution. Perhaps one day our atmosphere will fog over instantly and permanently.  

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