Anything Political

[Dreamon 17]

It's sad to see the City council's cuts will affect, amongst other things, the libraries leaving only three open.

[Brew 5,421]

Libraries are a wistful memory for those who used to use them but few now do so regularly, I count myself among them. Rather like the bitter sweet memory for things like Drury Hill, steam trains and Shippos' 'osses. They are not actually needed now, but it would be nice to know they're there.

I mentioned before they are expensive, difficult to access and though notionally available to everyone, actually only serve a minority.

[LizzieM 9,511]

Personally, since the internet was ‘invented’ 30 odd years ago I’ve not read many books, but I read on line content all day long, as well as the daily paper that we still have delivered. Neither have I been a library member since I was a kid.  Two of my good friends studied Librarianship at University and I have 3 other friends who have spent their entire working life in libraries.  They’re all retired now but I wonder whether Librarianship is still offered as a degree course. I can understand why the City Council are closing libraries to save money,  although there are other facilities in the buildings that are useful to the local communities, such as computers and printers.  If the majority of the population has internet access there is little need even for library reference books.  

[Oztalgian 3,298]

No doubt that the "need" for libraries has diminished due to the interweb but our local library appears to be well patronised. My wife still prefers to read an actual book rather than reading on a tablet or Kindle.

[DJ360 6,730]

22 hours ago, Brew said:

overall the tax take will actually be higher as a percentage of GDP than it has been for at least 50yrs and the average earner is worse off.

 

Indeed. And it's interesting.  We are actually around the middle rank of the G10 when it comes to this figure.  In some countries, it points to a highly developed public sector, with very good health, transport and other infrastructure, which most people might grumble about, but grudgingly accept. It's long been a generally accepted idea that much of Scandinavia fits that model.

However, in a classic case of British 'exceptionalism' , we manage to have our highest tax burden for 70 years, alongside a disintegrating public sector, failed public sector privatisation, literally crumbling infrastructure, even more planned public sector funding cuts, collapsing schools, low productivity, self inflicted labour shortages caused by cuts to education and training,... I could go on, but if anyone here has not yet noticed that everything in the country is broken after 14 years of a Tory combination of malice, greed and incompetence, then it's hardly worth my trouble.

 

On the same general topic.  I don't understand the full argument, but there certainly is an argument that Taxes DO NOT fund public spending, or at the very least, the commonly held belief that 'Govt has no money' and therefore can only spend what it either raises in taxes, or borrows from 'the markets', is not actually true.  Govt is a currency issuer and can therefore not run out of that which it issues.  However, it's certainly true that Govt. can't just issue endless cash, as that is inflationary.  I don't know the answer, but it certainly IS NOT Tory NeoCon economics.

[DJ360 6,730]

13 hours ago, Brew said:

Libraries are a wistful memory for those who used to use them but few now do so regularly, I count myself among them. Rather like the bitter sweet memory for things like Drury Hill, steam trains and Shippos' 'osses. They are not actually needed now, but it would be nice to know they're there.

I mentioned before they are expensive, difficult to access and though notionally available to everyone, actually only serve a minority.

 

Lots of truth in that.  We have lost our Local Library in the last year or so, as have several other Wards in St Helens. Interestingly, the main reason quoted for closure in Billinge was 'problems with the library roof', same as at least one local swimming pool and our original Parish Council Office.  There must be some lousy roofers round here..

 

It's certainly true that the Internet has made information more easily available. I also rarely read an actual book, except for dipping into reference works, as I prefer to listen, via 'Audible'.

 

However, I'm not sure that buying books from Amazon, or effectively 'renting' them from Audible etc, is a good thing in the long term. Does it really equate to browsing the shelves in a Library and coming up with previously unknown Authors, Topics, etc? 

All three of my Grandkids love books, and read a lot.  We have thousands of books here too. Too many to be fair and they need thinning out more than a bit.. but Mrs Col in particular loves them and won't part with much.

In a very real sense, many books are worth more than just the information they contain. They can be rare, and/or beautiful things.  It would be criminal to see them lost.

I'm trying to find out the fate of all the books in our 'lost' libraries.

 

It seems to me that the best remaining libraries are surviving by diversifying.  Community services and events. Educational events, plus of course the now ubiquitous Internet Access and Printing/Copying facilities.

Whilst still working, I was based for part of my time in local libraries to provide an easy access point for Careers/Employment advice etc.

Citizens Advice, Social Services, Housing, Community Health, Employment/Career Advice and no doubt numerous others could theoretically be combined with Library Services..

Just sayin'..

[Jill Sparrow 10,307]

I visited the library in Sutton in Ashfield last week. They have transcripts of parish records and I wanted to check the burials in the churchyard of St Wilfrid's at Kirkby as some of my ancestors were interred there around 200 years ago.

 

I noticed that they also had microfiche records of parish registers. I haven't seen those for many, many years as most people now use the library's subscription to sites such as Ancestry and Find My Past but, sometimes, it's quicker to look at local resources as not all parish records are available on Ancestry by any means.  I settled down in front of the solitary microfiche reader and attempted to look at some very old baptism records but could obtain no image on the screen. Reason? No lens.  I sought the help of the assistant on the desk who cheerfully fetched the lens from a secure storage area and installed it in the reader. Would I let her know when I'd finished using it as the lens would need to be removed for safety, otherwise it was likely to be pinched.    Who on earth would pinch a microfiche lens...and why?

 

It didn't take me long to realise that I already had the relevant information on the microfiche slides. I'd taken it from the primary source, the actual parish registers, decades ago (1970s) at The Judge's Lodgings on High Pavement in the days when the Archives were based there.

 

On the ground floor of the library, a song and dance session was in full swing with children from a local school. A tad noisy but I can live with that. I'll never give up books, though. There's just something about the smell, the sight of rows and rows of books and the turning of pages. I'm with Bernard Levin on that one. Books for ever.

[DJ360 6,730]

Meanwhile..

 

https://www.bylinesupplement.com/p/exclusive-conservative-party-contributing#Echobox=1709974830

 

From which...

 

Quote

 

EXCLUSIVE: Conservative Party 'Contributing to Extremism and Undermining Democracy' Voters Say After Sunak's 'Mob Rule' Rant

New polling by WeThink for Byline Supplement shows a majority of voters believe the party of Suella Braverman and Liz Truss is contributing to anti-Muslim hate

 

Quote

 

It was quickly blasted as hollow. The PM had failed to robustly condemn Lee Anderson, the former Deputy Chair of the Conservative Party, who claimed that London Mayor Sadiq Khan was under the influence of "Islamist" associates. Sunak also refused to withdraw the whip from ex-Home Secretary Suella Braverman, who penned an article in the Telegraph, claiming that “the Islamists, the extremists, and the antisemites are in charge now” over the weekly London pro-ceasefire protests. 

Nor did he act when former Prime Minister Liz Truss claimed that “radical Islam is becoming mainstream in British politics” and stayed silent while her far-right US interviewer Steve Bannon praised EDL thug Tommy Robinson. Truss is courting the radical right on the global stage, and he will do nothing about it. 

 

 

Quote

Perhaps Rishi Sunak’s fears over ‘mob role’ in fact represent something simpler. This multi-millionaire’s idea of a ‘mob’ – the increasingly irate public at large – is well and truly against him. He is tied to a party that is veering dangerously towards the hard Right. From his party’s GB News bunker, it is everyone else that looks extreme. At some point this year however, the mob will get to have their say at last.   

 

I may just have previously hinted at such developments.. in passing..

[Brew 5,421]

Libraries will eventually morph into a department, maybe not even the primary one, of some community/council building rather than a stand alone facility.

 

I wonder though at the cost of the more esoteric volumes, technical, academic and study material etc. when publishers main customers' slowly disappear. 

[philmayfield 6,144]

I’ve had a book out of Arnold library for 35 years. I wonder if what the fine will be when I return it? 

[Brew 5,421]

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

 

On the same general topic.  I don't understand the full argument, but there certainly is an argument that Taxes DO NOT fund public spending, or at the very least, the commonly held belief that 'Govt has no money' and therefore can only spend what it either raises in taxes, or borrows from 'the markets', is not actually true. 

 

Not sure I follow the logic of that, if it's not tax or borrowed the only other money available are the reserves and, as Brown found out with gold sales, once it 's gone it's gone. Is this one of you Pinkfish radicals?

 

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

but if anyone here has not yet noticed that everything in the country is broken after 14 years of a Tory combination of malice, greed and incompetence, then it's hardly worth my trouble.

 

The infrastructure is as you say not in the best of health but piling all the blame on the Tories is stretching it a bit.

The crumbling schools are due to construction materials that came into being and used way back in the 50s, and successive governments since have failed to  note the potential problems waiting round the corner.

 

Failed privatisation? true enough in my view, but Labour had thirteen years to correct any mistakes by the Tories, thirteen years to put the utilities right, but comprehensively failed to do so whilst they were hanging an albatross round the neck of the NHS with PFI.

 

We now spend more than twice the defence budget on debt interest, more than three times the cost of transport and more than four times the cost long term care - just on interest.

 

True Major started PFI  but Blair/Brown went ahead with the short term gains and now has just about crippled us with it. 

 

Greed I can see, incompetence is rife but malice?, really? That's just far left hyperbole and in my mind unwarranted.

[Brew 5,421]

4 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Meanwhile..

 

https://www.bylinesupplement.com/p/exclusive-conservative-party-contributing#Echobox=1709974830

 

From which...

 

 

 

I may just have previously hinted at such developments.. in passing..

 

I don't think I've come across such ridiculously biased opinion poll before. you must see that even with your  left wing prejudices at full power.

 

They want Lian Gallagher for Prime Minister!?

 OK now I realise it's a spoof, but it's quite sinister in it's way, a bit like the TikTok/Facebook dumbo posters and those who believe them.

[DJ360 6,730]

41 minutes ago, Brew said:

 

I don't think I've come across such ridiculously biased opinion poll before. you must see that even with your  left wing prejudices at full power.

 

They want Lian Gallagher for Prime Minister!?

 OK now I realise it's a spoof, but it's quite sinister in it's way, a bit like the TikTok/Facebook dumbo posters and those who believe 

 

I don't know what you've been reading, but I read a poll about  the Tories fuelling Islamophibia and undermining democracy. I have no idea where you got Lian (?) Gallagher from.

[philmayfield 6,144]

Islamophibia! 

[DJ360 6,730]

Yes Phil... You will be shocked to learn that even I can make typos. 

[Brew 5,421]

It's from your link to the ridiculous  Byline supplement, the one where they carefully photographed Anderson behind a microphone to give hi the appearance of a Hitler moustache. the one where they appeared to give credence to Gallagher claiming to run for PM. 

They are clearly as left wing as it gets. The two main characters are both Labour supporters, juke is/was a card carrying member

Let's consider a couple of the bylines:

 

"Musk is using Twitter to destroy objective truth".

 

"The FarRight Eugenics behind Musks takeove of Twitter"

 

"Putins Brexit Coup"

 

And there's more of this hysterical tripe

 

 

The polls are held in such high regard they are carried by that bastion of left wing thinking, the Guardian, except it's not, nor does any another respectable media cover i

 

I have more confidence in GBNews than any propaganda poll they publish. The figures they quote are only believable by the gullible.

[DJ360 6,730]

Quote

Not sure I follow the logic of that, if it's not tax or borrowed the only other money available are the reserves and, as Brown found out with gold sales, once it 's gone it's gone. Is this one of you Pinkfish radicals?

Did you miss where I mentioned printing money?

Yes..it's seen as inflationary, but would it be anymore  so than the results of Truss's disaster?

Also, whenever considering  the national debt..ask who owns it and how they feel about it.

[Brew 5,421]

11 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

Also, whenever considering  the national debt..ask who owns it and how they feel about it.

 

Shal I ask what they think of the successive governments who created it as well? You know as well as I do what happens the the printing presses roll.

 

The problem is Labour is obsessed with looking back to find excuses and someone to blame, Forget Truss, may Cameron et.al, It is what it is so lets deal with it. While we look backwards we can't look forward and see what's coming.

[Brew 5,421]

3 hours ago, philmayfield said:

I’ve had a book out of Arnold library for 35 years. I wonder if what the fine will be when I return it? 

 

What you mean is you stole a book 35 years ago...

 

[DJ360 6,730]

1 hour ago, Brew said:

It's from your link to the ridiculous  Byline supplement, the one where they carefully photographed Anderson behind a microphone to give hi the appearance of a Hitler moustache. the one where they appeared to give credence to Gallagher claiming to run for PM. 

They are clearly as left wing as it gets. The two main characters are both Labour supporters, juke is/was a card carrying member

Let's consider a couple of the bylines:

 

"Musk is using Twitter to destroy objective truth".

 

"The FarRight Eugenics behind Musks takeove of Twitter"

 

"Putins Brexit Coup"

 

And there's more of this hysterical tripe

 

 

The polls are held in such high regard they are carried by that bastion of left wing thinking, the Guardian, except it's not, nor does any another respectable media cover i

 

I have more confidence in GBNews than any propaganda poll they publish. The figures they quote are only believable by the gullible.

 

I only read the article, which you have simply dismissed, seemingly  preferring to undermine it by assiciationvwith other stuff.

However,just because you don't like the methodology, doesn't make their conclusion wrong.

 

Still, I just googled 'Govt undermining democracy' and came up with this from King's College London, among dozens of articles which also concluded that the Toriescare intent on undermining  our democracy.

 

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/is-the-government-actively-undermining-british-democracy

[DJ360 6,730]

3 hours ago, Brew said:

 

Greed I can see, incompetence is rife but malice?, really? That's just far left hyperbole and in my mind unwarranted.

 

So you don't see malice in the sustained attacks on Civil Servants, Public Services, Local Govt, legitimate protesters, etc., etc?

[Brew 5,421]

9 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

I only read the article, which you have simply dismissed, seemingly  preferring to undermine it by assiciationvwith other stuff.

However,just because you don't like the methodology, doesn't make their conclusion wrong.

 

The methodology is unknown, the results I question on the grounds of known bias by the authors. I tend to read more than your links, authors publishers, etc .The articles, the tone of the writing and the choice of subject all  tend to make me think the facts are cherry picked to present their case to their advantage and by association the conclusion is suspect.

 

I don't have time to read the new link, I'm tired now but will look later. I will say I would take an established University research paper over those with an axe to grind.

 

 

 

 

[Brew 5,421]

10 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

So you don't see malice in the sustained attacks on Civil Servants, Public Services, Local Govt, legitimate protesters, etc., etc?

 

No...

[DJ360 6,730]

12 hours ago, Brew said:

I will say I would take an established University research paper over those with an axe to grind.

 

Then I'll be interested in your view of the King's College paper.

[DJ360 6,730]

13 hours ago, Brew said:

No...

 

So you don't see the Tory obsession with re-framing anything that is basically socially liberal, as either 'woke', 'socialist', or 'far left', as malice?

 

It's quite difficult to get at the Print Media's views on this as most of them hide behind 'paywalls' and I have no intention of further enriching the likes of Murdoch and the other, often foreign and mostly Tory supporting Press Barons.

However, one article from The Economist escaped to here,( Reddit) and gives one perspective on the Tories' attacks on British Institutions, with the conclusion that it is only Tory incompetence which has stopped them from installing Tories into positions of institutional power.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/139gal0/the_tories_v_the_institutions/?rdt=47978

 

From which:

Quote

From the perspective of the typical Conservative mp, Richard Sharp was a perfect choice as chairman of the British Broadcasting Corporation (bbc). A former Goldman Sachs banker and committed Brexiteer, Mr Sharp thought the bbc had a “liberal bias”. Mr Sharp was a Tory donor, close to both Boris Johnson, the former prime minister, and Rishi Sunak, the current one. Unfortunately, Mr Sharp was too close to Mr Johnson: he resigned on April 28th for failing to properly declare he had tried to arrange a meeting between the cabinet secretary and a businessman who had offered to financially support the former prime minister.

 

And

 

Quote

The Tory party has no excuses. New Labour knew how they wanted Britain to work. The Conservatives have produced no such vision. Conservatism is in general allergic to big ideas and systemic thinking. Most Tory mps are happier moaning about institutions than altering them. Instead of learning from its mistakes, the government has given up. Mr Sunak has neither the time nor the inclination to radically alter British institutions between now and the next general election. After more than a decade in power, the Conservatives have not figured out how to reform the state. They may not get another chance for a while.

 

We live in hope... (At least I do..)

 

There is much more to be found by simply Googling 'Tories v Institutions', 'Tories v Civil Service', etc., and of course there are plenty of articles in the likes of the Telegraph, parroting Tory claims that our institutions are 'infested', or 'controlled' by everyone from 'The Woke', to Putin.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/139gal0/the_tories_v_the_institutions/?rdt=47978

 

 

The question of course is whether this stuff from the Tories constitutes Malice. In the sense that the Tory mindset seems to be 'if you're not with us you're against us', then I believe it does.  Their attacks are based on the false proposition that being Socially Liberal, or even politically neutral, isn't enough, and that is why so many of them lie, 'Truss Style' about perceived 'enemies' and would rather install Allies, like Dacre and Sharp.