Electric Cars & Scooters

[DJ360 6,730]

Article highlighting the almost total affiliation of US climate change denying politicians to the Republican Party, and their affiliation with coal, oil and gas industries.

 

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/climate-deniers-117th-congress/

 

What am I not surprised?

[Brew 5,421]

At various meetings and conferences etc calls for nuclear stations were always shouted down.  The trendy solution was tying into a global system, a smart distribution network covering the whole of Europe. They're still at it now, but nobody foresaw Brexit or a war that threatens to bring it all down or how fragile such a system will be politically and economically.

Had they listened back then we would have a whole tranche of clean power coming on stream about now.

[Beekay 5,156]

I must admit I rather fancy driving up to Nottingham in an electric vehicle. However, I don't know where I could purchase a 200 mile power lead.

[plantfit 7,602]

Coal is king and what's more it's ours, British coal under British soil, not French or Chinese, not buying from the Russians or importing wood pellets from North America, dig up the coal and use it, the Chinese and Russians do and no one is demonstrating against them or gluing themselves to the roads and throwing orange dust all over the place

 

Rog

[philmayfield 6,144]

We’ve still got lots of coal but could you now find anyone willing to go underground to get it? It was a tough life. I knew the manager of Moorgreen and I have been down his pit. The mining communities are no more

[plantfit 7,602]

Open cast for it

 

Rog

[Brew 5,421]

The biggest polluting nations are: China - US - India - EU. To keep proportions right we need to count the EU as s ingle entity.

In the EU for example, there is a massive move to reduce CO2, a recognition that the warmer the planet is, the worse it becomes.

The problem, and its solution lie in political decisions, but both left and right, China. and the US, deny the evidence, in the US they do so purely for profits, and China is chasing global economic dominance, India is so corrupt they neither know nor care. As for the two big ones neither will relent from their goals for fear of giving the opposition an advantage and so continue to build more coal fired stations.

 

That said it would be folly to say "if they can so can we". True we sit on millions of tons of coal, but do we really want to use it for our own funeral pyre?

 

 

 

[philmayfield 6,144]

When I lived within our village our next door neighbour was a senior manager in the opencast executive at Cinderhill. David Hunter, no longer with us. He was also into fisheries conservation. There were some nasty blots on the landscape where the coal was being extracted.

[Brew 5,421]

The view from my house is of a green hill and pasture, a very pleasant view now. But once it was dirty black open cast site. Not only ugly but when the wind blew in our direction...

[DJ360 6,730]

19 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

DJ. I rarely agree with you on many things but your post above was interesting.

 

Thank you.

 

19 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

I see that the far right QUOTE

‘As usual, most of the 'deniers' are from the far Right of the political spectrum and are either working on behalf of 'vested interests' around Car manufacture, Oil/Gas Coal production etc or are just nuts’ gets a mention, no surprise there

 

Thing is Lets.. I think we all know that I rarely miss an opportunity to warn against the activities of the Political Right Worldwide. The World is turning Right and Democracy is threatened everywhere.( I'll leave that discussion for the Politics thread) But.. when it comes to Climate Change, my comment wasn't just me being a 'Leftie', it was simply stating the political reality.

In another post, I've linked to a very telling article, from which:

Quote

 

According to new analysis from the Center for American Progress, there are still 139 elected officials in the 117th Congress, including 109 representatives and 30 senators, who refuse to acknowledge the scientific evidence of human-caused climate change. All 139 of these climate-denying elected officials have made recent statements casting doubt on the clear, established scientific consensus that the world is warming—and that human activity is to blame. These same 139 climate-denying members have received more than $61 million in lifetime contributions from the coal, oil, and gas industries.

While the number of climate deniers has shrunk by 11 members (from 150 to 139) since the CAP Action Fund’s analysis of the 116th Congress—largely in the face of growing and overwhelming public support for action on climate—their numbers still include the majority of the congressional Republican caucus.* These climate deniers comprise 52 percent of House Republicans; 60 percent of Senate Republicans; and more than one-quarter of the total number of elected officials in Congress. Furthermore, despite the decline in total overall deniers in Congress, a new concerning trend has emerged: Of the 69 freshmen representatives and senators elected to their respective offices in 2020, one-third deny the science of climate change, including 20 new House Republicans and three-of-four new Republican senators. Of note, no currently serving Democratic or independent elected officials have engaged in explicit climate denial by this analysis’ definition.**

 

 

The above reminds me of the time when a series of  American Tobacco Industry representatives paraded in front of some committee and denied that Tobacco smoking is injurious to health. Well, they would say that, wouldn't they...

 

UK:  Just glance through some of these 'headers'...

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Tory+Climate+Change+Denier+MPs&t=newext&atb=v356-1&ia=web

 

Also worth remembering the malign influence of the Oil and Tobacco funded 'Institute of Economic Affairs', which clearly continues to have considerable 'Lobbying' influence and success with the present Govt. Truss's disastrous policies were straight out of their playbook, and  Sunak's nonsensical support for new North Sea Oil demonstrates their continuing influence.

 

19 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

I don’t see electric vehicles as a satisfactory solution currently. I’m changing my car this year and looked long and hard at an electric but I don’t believe the infrastructure is ready and unlikely to be so for some time.

 

I'm not denying there are issues and I'm increasingly coming to the view that much better public transport is likely to be the only sustainable solution, along with a defeat of the political/commercial 'oil lobby' and resistance to extended use of renewables and other 'green' technologies.

 

I have no intention of changing my car. It's an 19 year old 2.0 litre Civic, with fairly unimpressive fuel economy, but it's very well maintained and likely to be my last car. More to the point, I typically do under 4000 miles p.a., and it seems sensible to me that the energy and resources put into the manufacture of my car, will be increasingly mitigated by using it for as long as it's safe to do so.

 

[plantfit 7,602]

Most reinstated open cast sites have been turned into nature reserves or capped over for agricultural use, many into top class fisheries that charge a fortune to fish them, take a look at that well known nature reserve near Nottingham, Attenborough nature reserve, won many prizes for innovation and awards for their work with local nature and wildlife, it was started off by open cast for sand and gravel

 

Rog

[DJ360 6,730]

37 minutes ago, Brew said:

The problem, and its solution lie in political decisions, but both left and right, China. and the US, deny the evidence, in the US they do so purely for profits, and China is chasing global economic dominance, India is so corrupt they neither know nor care.

 

I'm not sure it's that simple. We've already debated whether China is 'left'. For me, it's a right wing, authoritarian state, masquerading as socialist, but run by an all powerful and pretty much unassailable elite. It's also innaccurate to claim that China denies the evidence. The Chinese Govt. may be many things, but stupid isn't one of them.

This makes interesting reading:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-57483492

 

Agree on India, especially with Modi in the vanguard of right wing anti democratic leaders, along with Putrid, Erdogan, Orban, etc..etc.

 

[DJ360 6,730]

3 hours ago, plantfit said:

Coal is king and what's more it's ours, British coal under British soil, not French or Chinese, not buying from the Russians or importing wood pellets from North America, dig up the coal and use it, the Chinese and Russians do and no one is demonstrating against them or gluing themselves to the roads and throwing orange dust all over the place

 

Rog

 

There are ways of 'scrubbing' the emissions from burning coal, and also 'carbon capture' technologies.

If they were employed, I'd have little issue with the reintroduction of deep mining for coal, but it's a massive 'if' and I'd prefer to see other solutions.

1 hour ago, plantfit said:

Open cast for it

 

Rog

 

I'm fortunate to live in what is generally regarded as a very nice place.  But, within a mile of my house there were once numerous 'drift' mines into a nearby ridge, and opencasting was active until very recently, with damage still apparent.

 

As Parish Council Chairman, I was also active, and successful in opposing a hugely damaging opencast proposal which would have destroyed ancient woodland and waterways less than half a mile from established housing, as well as almost certainly causing acidic 'run off', which would have destroyed nearby 'Carr Mill Dam', with its fishing and wildlife amenities, plus other waters further downstream.

I don't recall the name of it, ( maybe the 'Opencast Executive' under NCB, and 'British Coal Opencast'  after Thatcher privatised the Coal Industry), but there was some sort of national body which 'controlled' access to coal reserves. It had the WHOLE of the area between Manchester and Liverpool as 'potential opencast'... Terrifying.

[plantfit 7,602]

Not forgetting of course all the old pit slag heaps turned into reserves and industrial estates, mining and open castings only have a short lifespan but the benefits are huge, where do people think all the sand and gravels come from to build houses, factories etc and with modern technology forever progressing the way it does I see no reason why all the nasties from using fossil fuels can't be cleaned up, just look at how much cleaner petrol burning motor cars are compared to thirty years ago

 

Rog

 

[Brew 5,421]

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

The Chinese Govt. may be many things, but stupid isn't one of them.

 

Damn clever these Chinese. I didn't say they were stupid but paying lip service and proposing a solution half a century away hardly strikes me as affirmative action, it's saying one thing to pacify, whilst doing exactly the opposite. i.e. building well over 100 new coal stations. The only positive action I can see is cancelling the plans to build coal stations aboard, though I'm sure that's more an economic strategy.

In the proposed time span the Chinese population will have increased along with the demand for power plus a probable change in leadership and the global political status, does anyone believe it?

 

___________________________

 

I can't believe anyone would seriously suggest open cast mining. British coal is fairly deep and seams quite thin, the hole in the ground and attendant area plus damage to the environment would be enormous...

[philmayfield 6,144]

The tree covered rolling hills around Calverton and Oxton were once slag heaps and there’s a country park on the Gedling colliery site where the slag heaps came down to the roadside on Spring Lane at Lambley. 

[plantfit 7,602]

Coal in the UK start off in the west very shallow and gets deeper as you go further east, I'll dare bet if you asked any of the old mine workers if they would go and work underground most would say yes, trouble with the UK is there are a load of "nimby tree huggers" who would sooner pay through the nose for fuel/energy for someone else to dig it out of the ground than have our own self sufficient fuel/energy, well not everyone can afford the stupid prices for imported energy and fuel or doesn't that bother the so called rich in this greedy world we live in

 

Rog

[Brew 5,421]

As a nimby tree hugger i would point out that it would not be 'old' miners who dig it out but younger, better educated youngsters who want more from life than blue scars and knacked lungs.

 

The old mining communities that were practically a sub-culture have long gone and only those who were never a part of it see it as some sort of romantic 'way we were' lifestyle.

 

True slag heaps have been prettied up, but only after decades of being a blight on the landscape that lasted more years than the average lifetime of those who created it.

 

128000 miners died nationally, over a hundred men at Gedling alone, many more from associated diseases. I don't want any man losing or risking their life just so I save a few pennies on my energy bill.

[plantfit 7,602]

But it's alright for men (and women in some cases) in foreign lands to dig the stuff out of the ground for us, I see, what about unmanned machinery getting the black gold out of the ground, seems to work in some countries, maybe the reason this country is no longer the world leader it used to be is because we would sooner pay some other poor sod to access the coal/gas/oil who's country has nowhere near the H&S rules and regs and access to modern technology that we do but if the tree hugging nimby's are happy with that then so be it

 

Rog

[Brew 5,421]

You assume I think it right?  Then you assume wrongly. I said I don't want ANY man to risk his life and all the technology you mention will not preclude men scrabbling about a thousand feet underground - how do you think the machinery gets there? Will it be maintenance free?

 

Dinosaurs bleating for an age long gone are what holds up progress. The reasons we are no longer a world leader has nothing to do with coal and belongs in the political thread.

 

 

[plantfit 7,602]

I don't do politics I leave that to the ones who have superior knowledge on the subject (or think they do) what I am saying is why don't we use our own raw materials instead of other countries, end of the day we are all on the same planet taking from it what we hope will benefit us it's just if we use our own raw materials the transport cost would be far lower than using our own therefore using less fuels/energy to transport it around the world, but then again what do I know

 

Rog

 

[letsavagoo 963]

DJ.

It’s worrying that I agree with most of what you say. I’ll be singing keep the red flag flying soon. (No offence intended)

I think it’s commendable and sensible to keep your car running. If it ain’t broke. We have 2 cars as there is no practical public transport where I live. My wife’s car, an economical 1Litre, we had from new and is almost 9 years old with nearly 100k on it and we’ll keep it until it falls to bits or may go to one car soon. I have to change my car every 3 years due to the contract I have. Currently a hybrid doing 70 mpg and I’d keep it if I could. The new one will also be a hybrid which I consider to be the best current option.

 

[Brew 5,421]

9 minutes ago, plantfit said:

I don't do politics

 

Of course you do politics, everyone does, you just choose not to discuss it. and that's fair enough.

 

But this whole discussion started from the premise that coal, regardless of where it comes from is the main source of CO2 and if we need to reduce our output, we won't do it by building more coal fired power stations.

 

I share your resentment of foreign ownership of our industries and the need for imports etc. but quite frankly that's something we do to ourselves by buying their products and services. To stop doing so would be difficult at this late stage and I doubt anyone is prepared to go that far from their comfort zone.

[Brew 5,421]

25 minutes ago, letsavagoo said:

I think it’s commendable and sensible to keep your car running. I

even if it cost more to tax, more to run and pollutes the atmosphere as per this discussion? 

[plantfit 7,602]

I do not have a political opinion for the same reason I don't have a religious one, if it gives someone comfort then so be it but don't push the agenda onto me, I have my beliefs on why we should use our own resources and you have yours as to why we should use another country's without any political rantings from one or two members on here, however I respect you opinion as I'm sure you respect mine

 

Rog