Anything Political

[letsavagoo 963]

4 hours ago, MargieH said:

I don’t think it should be referred to as sleaze as - in my opinion - we should be stopping drilling for oil and concentrating on more sustainable forms of energy.  
We actually have oil for our hot water and heating, and also have a diesel car at the moment, but would still welcome all the renewable forms of energy.  The planet is more important than my particular situation!

I agree with you in principle but it’s not quite that simple. It will take time to wean ourselves away from oil and fossil fuels. We are already paying subsidies for investment in green energy on our fuel bills and there is a lot of investment in non fossil fuel energy. In the long run we need to get away from oil but it will take time and I don’t think now is the time to stop oil. Currently China and India are building more coal-fired power stations and the UK on the global scale is a minuscule contributor to global warming. That’s an aside though, and I suppose the sleeze I referred to was the fact that the man who allegedly funds the just stop oil protests, which have caused misery to countless thousands, caused people to miss important appointments and even allegedly death by delaying ambulances, cost millions of pounds in damage and disruption is a labour party donor and been a recipient of grants in return. 

It’s an uphill struggle to defend the Tories at the moment, but my argument has always been that there is underhand practices in all parties. This is just one example that I wanted to highlight.

Rob. L

just google Dale Vince. 

[MargieH 7,613]

I know the UK is a very small place compared with the very large countries like China, but here we have a real choice unlike more repressed countries….   and  each of us must do what we can for the planet.  I agree the the ‘Stop Oil’ protests do unfortunately sometimes cause real problems for other people but if they just paraded up and down on the pavements,, we probably would not be very aware of what they stand for.   With many big changes in government policy - like ‘Votes for women’ 100 years ago  - there will almost always be some disruption occurring.

I don’t know how the protesters can find a way to make people more aware without their making it onto the news channels.

I’m not skilled in writing about politics, but I  do feel so sad for people’s  children, grandchildren and great grandchildren who are inheriting the mess this planet is in.

 

 

[Jill Sparrow 10,310]

At the risk of getting my head bitten off (!) if there were less people on this planet to inherit the mess it's in, perhaps it wouldn't be in the mess it is. I'm echoing David Attenborough here, so I'm not a lone voice.

[MargieH 7,613]

I won’t bite your head off Jill.  I partly agree with you, although there would probably still be a huge gap between the ‘haves and have nots’ even with fewer people on Earth, because I think human nature causes  most people to

wamt to protect their own interests by acquiring more and more land/territory and other stuff to the detriment of those who have very little.  

The Bible calls this greed and selfishness, sin.  

Also, with fewer people around I wonder who would feed all the cats  
 

[Dark Angel 138]

@Jill Sparrow: I agree, Christie’s modus operandi didn’t appear to include physical  violence, however, his first two victims were skeletons when found; he also had a conviction and prison sentence for violence against a woman.

   His first victim was strangled during the act of intercourse. Beryl lived in the same house, by all accounts trusted him, after this it is pure speculation on my part.

 

Christie had a high IQ and was manipulative, I think he was trying to avoid the drop by getting an unsound mind verdict.

 

Also, there was the tin with four lots of pubic hair, non of which matched any of his later victims. Bearing in mind two of the remains were skeletons when found, that still leaves two unidentified. 
 

Am still open to the possibility of having two murderers in the same house.

However, I am yet to be convinced.

[Jill Sparrow 10,310]

2 minutes ago, MargieH said:

The Bible calls this greed and selfishness, sin.  

Also, with fewer people around I wonder who would feed all the cats  

I call it The Herd Instinct. My mother termed it Much Wants More. Until people realize that happiness is not acquired via externals we're trapped in a vicious circle of avarice. But....this is not a philosophical discussion.  There are also too many cats. Irresponsible humans are to blame for this also. Uncontrolled breeding has a lot to answer for. 

[MargieH 7,613]

Wow Jill, I think we may have quite a bit  in common!   My mum always used to say ‘Much wants more’ too ..,,

[Jill Sparrow 10,310]

5 minutes ago, Dark Angel said:

Am still open to the possibility of having two murderers in the same house.

Two very different murderers.  Christie was a serial killer and clearly had a serious problem with women. Evans, on the other hand, had a very violent and unpredictable temper. His wife, Beryl, was no shrinking violet, as Peter Mylton-Thorley admits. She was known to fight back, both verbally and physically. Evans himself complained that she would never let an argument drop which just made his temper worse than ever.

 

People argue that the probability of two killers living in the same house is virtually non-existent but is it, really? Like it or not, we're all capable of murder. The only thing that would stop most of us is fear of the consequences or our level of self control. Uncontrollable temper + alcohol + lack of self control is a recipe for disaster. Evans regularly suffered from all three.

[Dark Angel 138]

@DJ360: “when did you stop beating your wife?” I’m sorry, you have banjaxed me with this analogy. Your political stance is your affair, to quote Voltaire “ I disagree entirely with what you have to say, but will fight to the death for your right to say it.”

    From my point of view, every time you make a political statement, you quote endless passages from various sources. Some of your posts are harder to understand than War & Peace, and equally as long.

   You have produced a list of mass shootings to promote your argument. No mention of bombings, stabbings, sexual offences, drug racketeering, child grooming, carried out by people who shouldn’t be here. Once here we struggle to deport them no matter their offences.

   I neither have time nor the inclination to produce lists. 
   However, what would you do with a character arriving in this country under an assumed name who had committed a serious crime in another country: drugging, raping and killing a thirteen year old girl. He arrived in this country six days after committing this offence.

   Mass arrivals crossing our borders with false or no documentation is a recipe for disaster. 
   Chancers, criminals, terrorists welcome! 
  Only recently, one of these characters was jailed for murder, then we find out he had killed two people before arriving here.

   Yes the demographics of this country are being altered because over 90% of illegal arrivals are men.

   I was told many years ago: ”if you’re fleeing persecution you take your family with you, if you’re off to war, you leave them behind.”

  I realise this is a broad generalisation.

  I have no doubt that there are some genuine cases amongst them, unfortunately no one knows as lack of documentation makes life difficult.

  I agree, none of us know what a future government will do. The same argument applies to brexit, no one knows how it will pan out as there are many who don’t want it to work. My personal opinion is a lot of unrest taking place is linked to this issue.

 A lot of manipulation seems to be taking place that appears beyond our control.

As regards your last issue, I’m only a lowly twerp, but in my simple world a man has a penis and a woman has a vagina. One fits into the other to produce babies.

Have no idea what technical and legal definitions you refer to.

 

 I never get involved in politics so why have I now chosen to dive into a piranha tank head first!

[DJ360 6,733]

14 hours ago, Dark Angel said:

@DJ360: “when did you stop beating your wife?” I’m sorry, you have banjaxed me with this analogy.

 

Really?  It's a well known expression and an example of a 'Loaded Question', in that it starts from the assumption that I have in fact beaten my wife, so that a very careful response is required to avoid being 'entrapped' into an admission of guilt. I used it in response to your question 'What makes you think you are always right'?..which assumed that I actually do think that, when I don't.

 

14 hours ago, Dark Angel said:

to quote Voltaire

 

I think that's a common but false attribution. The quote is more correctly attributed to Beatrice Hall.. , though like many things, I've also seen it attributed to Churchill and others.

https://checkyourfact.com/2019/09/17/fact-check-voltaire-disapprove-defend-death-right-freedom-speech/

 

Still.. thanks for the sentiment. There are those hovering about who would very much like to deny me the right.

 

14 hours ago, Dark Angel said:

  From my point of view, every time you make a political statement, you quote endless passages from various sources.

 

You rescue yourself by saying 'from my point of view', because in any objective sense your observation is not supported by the facts. Yes, I write at length sometimes.. in my own words, as do others. But I really don't post anything 'endless'. Sometimes I include quotes, sometimes links to further info illustrating a point etc., as with the link above re: Voltaire, which I've given you the choice to read or not.

 

14 hours ago, Dark Angel said:

Some of your posts are harder to understand than War & Peace, and equally as long.

 

I like to think that I write fairly well, with accurate spelling and punctuation and am at pains to make my point intelligibly. I was educated at Grammar school until the age of 16. Much later I spent 4 years at university, studying mostly Political Theory, but also Economics, Sociology, Psychology etc. Such education encourages 'critical thinking', using evidence, careful reasoning, logic etc. I don't always get it right, but I do my best.

Sorry, but it is hardly my fault if you don't understand what I write. Others here seem to manage well enough to come up with counter arguments.

As for War and Peace. Yes, it's oft quoted as exceptionally long, though it is shorter than many other 'long' novels and only about half the length of Proust's 'A La Recherche Du Temps Perdu'.  But, whatever, none of my posts come even remotely close to that length.

The bottom line here is that Political issues are rarely simple, such that they require explanation, analysis and evidence.

Time for the H.L. Mencken quote again:  'For every complex problem, there is a solution which is clear, simple and wrong'.

 

14 hours ago, Dark Angel said:

 You have produced a list of mass shootings to promote your argument. No mention of bombings, stabbings, sexual offences, drug racketeering, child grooming, carried out by people who shouldn’t be here. Once here we struggle to deport them no matter their offences.

 

I was looking for individual 'immigrants' responsible for mass shootings and serial killings. I found one Nigerian, among a mass of 'White British'.

I have mentioned bombings and the fact that most were carried out by British citizens. I also mentioned knife crime statistics.

 

What you are trying to 'prove', is that immigrants, and especially Black/Asian immigrants are more dangerous than native 'White British'. What criteria are you using to determine that they 'shouldn't be here'?

As I've also pointed out in these pages the narrative you are propagating puts all non-white UK residents under suspicion because you don't know their status. Do you apply similar suspicion to all whites?

 

You will not find me defending 'Grooming Gangs', they should obviously be punished. If British Citizens they should face the same punishment as any other British Citizen and if not rightfully here they should be deported, but your basic premise is not proven. You have not proven that Grooming and Sexual Exploitation is any more, or less prevalent among any group and you ignore the 'all white' Camborne case, along with the antics of the likes of Saville, Gary Glitter, Rolf Harris, Stuart Hall, Mark Page, Football Coach Barry Bennell etc., etc.

Have a look here: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-65174096

 

As for drug 'racketeering' .. Good luck trying to prove that immigrants are any more or less involved than the UK population. Major smuggling cases have frequently involved White British, such as the 'Freshwater Five', and white Brit Joshua Hendry, recently detained in Spain.

The plain fact is that  illicit drug use, especially of Cannabis and Cocaine is widespread among all sectors of society and the local distribution reflects the local community. The crooks on trial for murdering both Elle Edwards and Olivia Pratt -Corbell in Merseyside are all White British.

14 hours ago, Dark Angel said:

However, what would you do with a character arriving in this country under an assumed name who had committed a serious crime in another country: drugging, raping and killing a thirteen year old girl. He arrived in this country six days after committing this offence.

 

Obviously deport him. Next question.

 

14 hours ago, Dark Angel said:

 Mass arrivals crossing our borders with false or no documentation is a recipe for disaster. 
   Chancers, criminals, terrorists welcome! 

How do you know they have false or no documentation?

 

Right.. I need some lunch. I'll return.

 

 

 

[DJ360 6,733]

On 6/19/2023 at 3:58 PM, letsavagoo said:

It’s an uphill struggle to defend the Tories at the moment, but my argument has always been that there is underhand practices in all parties. This is just one example that I wanted to highlight.

 

 

Why do you feel the need to defend them? If they no longer, as it seems, represent your views, and political sympathies, then what are you defending?

 

Contrary to popular belief on here, I do not always defend Labour, and I have certainly had major disagreements on some of their policies. However, as far as I'm concerned, the main mission of all right thinking British voters should be to kick the current Tory bunch into the long grass for a very long time. They no longer properly represent even the traditional 'conservative' cohort.. much less the whole electorate. It isn't only Johnson who is unfit for office. The only conceivable way I see to rid ourselves of these spivs is if Labour can gain outright power, or a coalition with the Lib Dems, Greens etc., so I will be voting Labour, despite Starmer.

 

On 6/19/2023 at 10:46 AM, letsavagoo said:

Just been reading about Dale Vince, the green energy Baron worth a good many million. It appears that he funds just stop oil and has donated a few million £’s to the Labour Party. Now it seems he’s been given millions in subsidies by the Labour and surprise surprise Keir Starmer has stated that he will ban oil drilling in the North Sea, in other words, shutting down one of Mr Vinces, rivals. Shock horror. Could this be sleaze in the labour party. Not heard this mentioned here!

 

The man is entitled to fund whoever he wishes. It's refreshing that he is open about it, rather than secretive like many Tory donors.

I believe he has given a few tens of £k to Starmer for his leadership campaign and less than £1 million to Labour.

I'm puzzled as to how you think that Starmer, who has no access to or control over public spending, has given 'millions in subsidies' ..to anyone.

And yes... Vince has openly funded Just Stop Oil.

 

Maybe we should also consider the 'Institute of Economic Affairs', which is funded by Oil and Tobacco interests, sets itself up as a 'charity', but is in fact a front for the Oil and Tobacco lobbies, as well as some very far right economic thinking, which is a powerful influence on the Tory Right and almost certainly influenced the disastrous Truss/Kwarteng debacle.

Maybe also consider that the present Tories are effectively subsidising water company shareholder dividends by allowing those companies to force customers to pay for investment required simply to do what they were set up to do.

Similar arguments apply to Transport,  and Energy companies.

[letsavagoo 963]

He received grants and subsidies during the previous Labour government.  The donations he has made are quoted as considerably more than you credit them for and the conduct of JSO has been literally criminal but I won’t continue for reason given further on.

I will just add finally that it is standard practice for the boat invaders to discard their phones and any documents in the sea and arrive here with no way of proving their identity. No I can’t quote a source but it is 100% fact. Hundreds of the Albanians just disappear when they get here and are involved in drugs, prostitution and organised crime. 

You may have seen in a recent post I made that I have come to the realisation that the ‘anything political’ thread is not why I joined this site nor is it the reason people visit the site which as the title suggests should be about the memories and history of Nottingham, the city of my birth and where I still reside. I’m sure that there are far more suitable forums to discuss politics where like minded people can discus and appreciate political views and knowledge. It is in my opinion out of place here.

I think it was my objections to politics which had crept into posts particularly, about corona virus that kickstarted the ‘anything political’ thread in the first place.
With this in mind I will not participate further. I’d be happy if the moderators would revert to the original no politics rule and we can get on with Nottstalgia. Judging by the reactions I’ve had I’m not the only one who feels the same.

[DJ360 6,733]

I'd be happy to revert to 'No Politics', but it doesn't happen. Somebody always wants to drop in a little line about something contentious. Unless the moderators delete such provocations on every occasion, those making them get to quietly push their narrative.. a bit at a time.. If they are not challenged, they keep on doing it. If they are challenged, they cry 'foul' and accuse others.. often me.. of 'making it political'.

Of course nobody is obliged to participate in the Politics thread.

 

P.S. Albanians have no need to come here.

[letsavagoo 963]

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

I'd be happy to revert to 'No Politics

No you wouldn’t. You’d be lost. I see what you mean though. Anyone can see the political innuendo going on in the recent topics, Sneinton soldier, busses, hobbies and as for Musters, well! Come on Col. Plenty of wrongs to put right there. Don’t let it go unchallenged or it will be drip, drip drip.

Got to go now as I’ve got to check see how my shares in Texaco and Shell are doing, renew my Tory party membership, read a chapter of Boris Johnson’s guide to ethical investing and finally check under the bed for commies or I just won’t sleep. 

[DJ360 6,733]

Sarcasm.. 'lowest form of wit'.. etc...

 

You have said several times now that you don't like arguing politics..... Hmmm. What can you do...?

 

 

[DJ360 6,733]

Yesterday, I spent an hour or so watching the  Parliamentary debate on the 'Priveleges Committee Report on Johnson'.

 

Parliament is the 'Sovereign' power in the UK. Parliament exists to hold the Government to account and ensure that its actions are fair, legal, non discriminatry, etc., etc.  Parliament has protected  our Democracy from tyrants, Dictators and extremists for 800 years.. Hold that thought...

 

Apart from the frankly bizarre, but very different contributions of Rees-Mogg, a female Tory MP from Hull and the increasingly deranged  Andrew Bridgen.. what struck me was the common theme running through most contributions, from ALL parties.

 

That theme, quite simply, was respect for Parliament, which is not a Party Political issue.

 

Johnson has never respected Parliament.  It gets in his way, as he continues to try to be 'World King'.(Always his express ambition)  He attacked Parliament when he led a minority Tory Govt, trying to push through Brexit.. any Brexit, at any price. He lied to the Queen and tried to 'prorogue' Parliament to stop it.. from stopping him..

Johnson is not just a lying, incompetent, racist, misogynist knock knee'd, slob, who looks, to use my Mum's phrase 'like a bag of s*** tied in the middle', he is also dangerously anti-democratic. He and his backers, got close to succeeding and ruining our Democracy..

Some MPs were in tears during that debate, as they described their relief, that Parliament seems to finally be defeating Johnson and his ilk. But they also warned that UK Democracy is still not safe.. He's not gone yet..

 

 

 

 

[Dark Angel 138]

@letsavagoo: I stand shoulder to shoulder with you on your views about this thread.

 

 @DJ360: having never heard the expression “ when did you stop beating your wife?” Instead of explaining to me, you open the conversation with the word “really?” Before your explanation. This came across as a sneering condescending opening. You may or may not have meant it as such. That’s how I perceived it.

 

”sorry, but it’s hardly my fault if you don’t understand what I write”.     Really?

 

”what you are trying to prove, is that immigrants, and especially Black/Asian immigrants are more dangerous than White British.”

 

 These are your words not mine. You explain. At no point have I mentioned anyone’s ethnicity. Now who doesn’t understand what’s written?

 

We have enough rotten eggs already, without supplementing them with others who basically shouldn’t be here.

I intend this to be my last post on this thread.

[DJ360 6,733]

3 hours ago, Dark Angel said:

“really?”

 

It was an expression of surprise. Nothing else intended.

 

What did you intend by..........?

 

Quote

  From my point of view, every time you make a political statement, you quote endless passages from various sources. Some of your posts are harder to understand than War & Peace, and equally as long.

 

.. because from my point of view that was a clear and highly inaccurate attempt to ridicule and misrepresent my posts.

 

3 hours ago, Dark Angel said:

”sorry, but it’s hardly my fault if you don’t understand what I write”

 

You have taken the above out of context, after I was at pains to refute your preceding argument. It was, after all, you, who claimed not to understand my posts.

 

3 hours ago, Dark Angel said:

At no point have I mentioned anyone’s ethnicity.

 

On that, I hold my hands up, and apologise. You haven't mentioned anyone's ethnicity.

You have however tried to demonstrate that immigrants on the whole are more criminal than the native UK population. You have not proven your case, nor presented any evidence other than one or two individual cases.

 

It is not for you, or me, to judge who 'should be here'. That is a matter for Govt. and the Law. It's pretty obvious that Govt. has failed to control the situation and is in Policy chaos, but simultaneously uses the 'spectre' of immigration both as a 'Dog Whistle and to stir up a 'moral panic', to deflect from its own, numerous shortcomings.

 

3 hours ago, Dark Angel said:

I intend this to be my last post on this thread.

 

That is your choice. Participation in any thread or topic is optional. As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to Politics, the more who are engaged the merrier, so long as exchanges remain respectful and don't descend into personal attacks.

 

For what it's worth, I hadn't completed my response to your other points, on the EU etc., but there seems little point now.

[DJ360 6,733]

14 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

He received grants and subsidies during the previous Labour government.

 The donations he has made are quoted as considerably more than you credit them for and the conduct of JSO has been literally criminal but I won’t continue for reason given further on.

I will just add finally that it is standard practice for the boat invaders to discard their phones and any documents in the sea and arrive here with no way of proving their identity. No I can’t quote a source but it is 100% fact. Hundreds of the Albanians just disappear when they get here and are involved in drugs, prostitution and organised crime. 

You may have seen in a recent post I made that I have come to the realisation that the ‘anything political’ thread is not why I joined this site nor is it the reason people visit the site which as the title suggests should be about the memories and history of Nottingham, the city of my birth and where I still reside. I’m sure that there are far more suitable forums to discuss politics where like minded people can discus and appreciate political views and knowledge. It is in my opinion out of place here.

I think it was my objections to politics which had crept into posts particularly, about corona virus that kickstarted the ‘anything political’ thread in the first place.
With this in mind I will not participate further. I’d be happy if the moderators would revert to the original no politics rule and we can get on with Nottstalgia. Judging by the reactions I’ve had I’m not the only one who feels the same.

 

@Letsavagoo

 

My mistake. I hadn't realised that the figures I quoted related to 'during this parliament', so his previous donations weren't in my figures. But I really don't see the 'sleaze', as his donations are transparent.

 

As for JSO, we could engage in semantics around 'illegal' v 'criminal' etc, but 'locking on' has been made illegal and they have announced that they are reviewing their tactics anyway. Oh..and he has 'donated' to JSO, which is rather different to 'funding' JSO. It isn't his personal campaigning tool. Have you considered that he might be in the Green Energy business because he actually believes it's the right way to go?

 

As for 'discarding documents' etc.  I don't know, and you can't prove it, so maybe leave that one.

 

I've said several times that Albanians have no need to come here. Their own country is 'safe' as far as definitions go. I think I'm correct in saying that even this Govt. has managed to secure some sort of agreement with the Albanian authorities to reduce Albanian immigration.

https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-63473022

 

Regarding your doubts about the very existence of the Politics thread. My recollection of the reasons for its creation differ from yours, but I'd need to check and it's probably easier if we just ask  (CliffTon) as it's all his fault.. (That was a jest!)

 

However, I would point out again that participation in the politics thread is entirely optional, and more to the point, does not in any way prevent you or anyone else from pursuing other interests, topics etc., within Nottstalgia.

It is of course your choice.. but as I said to Dark Angel, from my point of view, the more who engage the merrier, so long as things remain civil.

[mr rob t 11]

Most of you will have noticed that I stay on line, the reason for that is so that I can read the politics thread. After all this time of the bait hanging on the end of the line I've bit. I'm a tory voter although I wouldn't vote for the present P.M. does that make me a crook,liar and everything else you call Tory's DJ360. If we all followed your line of politics we wouldn't be living in a democracy because there would be only one way to vote and that's your way.

 

[mr rob t 11]

Whilst that bait is still wrigging in my mouth just out of interest how many Labour M.P.'s currently standing in Parliament live in social housing? After all they represent the working man. There's one for you to research.

 

 

[mr rob t 11]

I have been a member of this site a lot longer than you have and we have always had trivial fallouts over politics but nothing on the scale that you've brought to it. As far as I can remember we never needed a politics thread. Sorry to say this but in my opinion you have spoilt this site.

 

[DJ360 6,733]

4 hours ago, mr rob t said:

Most of you will have noticed that I stay on line, the reason for that is so that I can read the politics thread. After all this time of the bait hanging on the end of the line I've bit. I'm a tory voter although I wouldn't vote for the present P.M. does that make me a crook,liar and everything else you call Tory's DJ360. If we all followed your line of politics we wouldn't be living in a democracy because there would be only one way to vote and that's your way.

 

 

If you actually read my posts you would know that I do not make personal attacks. I debate and discuss political issues. I have NEVER called any member of this site a crook or a liar, Tory voter or otherwise. In fact I have stated frequently and within my last few posts that I do not regard these debates as personal.

That said, I reserve the right to argue that the present Tory Govt.is riddled with crooks, and liars. You are free to disagree and to vote whatever way you wish.

[DJ360 6,733]

3 hours ago, mr rob t said:

Whilst that bait is still wrigging in my mouth just out of interest how many Labour M.P.'s currently standing in Parliament live in social housing? After all they represent the working man. There's one for you to research.

 

 

 That question too facile to warrant a response.

[Brew 5,423]

3 hours ago, mr rob t said:

Most of you will have noticed that I stay on line, the reason for that is so that I can read the politics thread. After all this time of the bait hanging on the end of the line I've bit. I'm a tory voter although I wouldn't vote for the present P.M. does that make me a crook,liar and everything else you call Tory's DJ360. If we all followed your line of politics we wouldn't be living in a democracy because there would be only one way to vote and that's your way.

 

 

3 hours ago, mr rob t said:

I have been a member of this site a lot longer than you have and we have always had trivial fallouts over politics but nothing on the scale that you've brought to it. As far as I can remember we never needed a politics thread. Sorry to say this but in my opinion you have spoilt this site.

 

It seems not only has woke and the cancel culture taken hold of NS we facilitating bullying and not a little hypocrisy.

Robt, he of the 17yr tenure and less than two posts a month (way to go to keep NS fresh and relevant rob), has managed to astonish and amaze me in less than eight lines with his attack on DJ360.

“I stay online to read the topic, but think it has spoilt the site” Oxymorons are alive and well I see. Then continues to engage by asking a puerile question.