Anything Political

[DJ360 6,730]

Braverman is in the news again for gobbling off in what even many of her own party fund unacceptable language. She' described Gaza  peace/ ceasefire marchers as 'Pro Palestinian Mobs'.

Earlier this week she reportedly described a Palestine related rally as a 'hate march'.

Totally unfit for office. Any office.

[Jill Sparrow 10,307]

3 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

She came to me, chose me from the dozens she could have and whispered sweetly “can you tell me where the little girls room is”. I can still feel the warmth of her breath on my face and the scent of her perfume as she slipped away. In answer Phil, you bet I did.

That has to be better than a paralytic Glenda Jackson!  Of the two, Jackson was the more talented although I don't concur with her political views.

[Cliff Ton 10,468]

Even Nadine Dorries has commented against Braverman.

 

I never dreamed I'd be in agreement with something she said.

[DJ360 6,730]

Me neither. Whilst some of us here argue about Lineker, we have a complete nut job for a Home Secretary, who has a long history of using language inappropriate  to her position and to the context, e.g. Parliament in which she utters her drivel. Her powerful position and profile do not entitle her to spout her racist bile. She should be sacked. Now.

And speaking of Home Secretaries, I believe that other shining xample of wisdom and statesmanship. Priti Patel, will be giving evidence to the Covid Enquiry today.

[DJ360 6,730]

Lifted from elsewhere, because I couldn't  have put it better:

 

"It is becoming increasingly clear the far-right such as Braverman, Yaxley Lennon, Farage, the Daily Mail, Express etc are very actively trying to create a riot on Armistice Day. I’ve seen many of the week’s gutter tabloid front pages linked on Twitter etc and it looks like a very deliberate strategy to enrage and mobilise gammon thugs and racists. Lots of made-up tabloid stories, e.g. the poppy seller who claimed to have been attacked/abused was rejected by police as CCTV said otherwise. These people are an absolute disgrace and they shouldn’t be anywhere near the memories of those who died fighting exactly this fascist mindset.

There is absolutely no conflict between remembering those who fought against fascism and authoritarianism and demanding an armistice today. The far-right gammons are the ones who do not belong in this picture."

 

 

[DJ360 6,730]

Worth adding here that many think Braverman is actively trying to get sacked, as she's essentially  running a leadership campaign against Sunak.

 

She's definitely  using her position to court the support of the far right.

 

Also worth noting that she is a member of an obscure Buddhist group which describes itself as 'friends' of another Buddhist sect which has a long history of allegations os sexual misconduct from its leader and others.

She really is an utter weirdo. It should go without saying that I am not 'anti Buddhist'

[DJ360 6,730]

And finally I have to confess the Braverman's deception and media manipulation even had me barking up the wrong tree. I was thinking that Braverman was moaning about possible clashes between two marches on the same day, when in factcthe Palestine March is set for Armistice Day, Saturday 11, starting after 11:00 a.m. and nowhere near the Cenotaph.

The main Rememberance Parade takes place the next day Remembrance  Sunday. Sunday 12th. 

[letsavagoo 963]

5 hours ago, Jill Sparrow said:

That has to be better than a paralytic Glenda Jackson!  Of the two, Jackson was the more talented although I don't concur with her political views.

In fairness it was I that accosted Ms Jackson but Carol that came to me. Later she approached again and for a brief moment I thought she was asking if I’d like to go out with her. Allas she was merely asking the way out. Jane says she probably asked you where the loo was because she thought you were the cleaner. Cruel.

[Brew 5,420]

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

"It is becoming increasingly clear the far-right such as Braverman, Yaxley Lennon, Farage, the Daily Mail, Express etc are very actively trying to create a riot on Armistice Day.

 

A rather hysterical diatribe that garners several disparate characters and lumps them into a conspiracy theory. It's laying the ground work for blaming the  right for any trouble.

The language used in this piece indicates (to me at least), a typical mindset of a disgruntled malcontent. It names two newspaper without offering a shred of proof other than  twisted interpretations.

The poppy seller story he cites as lies and police discounting it. CCTV shows the guy was certainly jostled  although not the clearest of pictures. And I'm not sure should have put himself in in the middle of a chanting mob at his age. The police did not dismiss it, the CCTV did not "say otherwise" as he claims they said there was insufficient evidence,  - another twisted interpretation.

 

That there will be trouble seems almost certain. Yet the obdurate protest leaders have so far refused to engage knowing full well how contentious this is. They have the right to protest, but if there is a major disturbance it plays into the hands of those who want to restrict those rights.

 

Is Braverman using inappropriate language, or telling it like it is?  There are several references to the "stop oil mob" and no voice raised in protest. Yet use the perfectly proper verb in a speech that references what is looking increasingly like antisemitism, and the  howls are heard all the way to Westminster.

 

The piece also references to lots (actually only one), of 'made up stories'. and then makes one up to bolster his own view.

 

On the subject of made up stories Col you seem to bought into one yourself. Apart from the fact Bravermans faith or religious leaning are nobodies business but hers, she is not, nor has she ever been a member of the Triratna Buddhists as you and the Guardian claim. To associate her with one temple that is 'friends' with a different temple all together, and the alleged sexual misconduct (3) by implication is scurrilous to say the least.

 

[Jill Sparrow 10,307]

6 minutes ago, letsavagoo said:

Later she approached again and for a brief moment I thought she was asking if I’d like to go out with her.

Aha. We won't ask what your response would've been. Wouldn't want you to incriminate yourself 

[DJ360 6,730]

3 hours ago, Brew said:

 

A rather hysterical diatribe that garners several disparate characters and lumps them into a conspiracy theory. It's laying the ground work for blaming the  right for any trouble.

The language used in this piece indicates (to me at least), a typical mindset of a disgruntled malcontent. It names two newspaper without offering a shred of proof other than  twisted interpretations.

The poppy seller story he cites as lies and police discounting it. CCTV shows the guy was certainly jostled  although not the clearest of pictures. And I'm not sure should have put himself in in the middle of a chanting mob at his age. The police did not dismiss it, the CCTV did not "say otherwise" as he claims they said there was insufficient evidence,  - another twisted interpretation.

 

That there will be trouble seems almost certain. Yet the obdurate protest leaders have so far refused to engage knowing full well how contentious this is. They have the right to protest, but if there is a major disturbance it plays into the hands of those who want to restrict those rights.

 

Is Braverman using inappropriate language, or telling it like it is?  There are several references to the "stop oil mob" and no voice raised in protest. Yet use the perfectly proper verb in a speech that references what is looking increasingly like antisemitism, and the  howls are heard all the way to Westminster.

 

The piece also references to lots (actually only one), of 'made up stories'. and then makes one up to bolster his own view.

 

On the subject of made up stories Col you seem to bought into one yourself. Apart from the fact Bravermans faith or religious leaning are nobodies business but hers, she is not, nor has she ever been a member of the Triratna Buddhists as you and the Guardian claim. To associate her with one temple that is 'friends' with a different temple all together, and the alleged sexual misconduct (3) by implication is scurrilous to say the least.

 

 

I disagree with almost everything you say here 

It's not hysterical, it's impassioned.

There have already been numerous  rallies and demonstrations which passed without trouble. There was one which filled the concourse of Lime St Station in Liverpool without disrupting anyone's travel 

Braverman and the right wing press are clearly engaged in a campaign to label peace and ceasefire campaigners as 'Pro palestinian Mobs' And we all know that any criticism of Israeli actions and policies automatically  provokes cries of 'Anti Semitism' from many.

If trouble is certain it is undoubtedly  the case that Braverman  and Co have contributed  to it by their inflammatory  language.

I have not seen any refutation of the Guardian report by anyone and I'm convinced that the Guardian would pull the story if it were proved wrong.

There have been a couple of war memorials defaced with 'free Palestine' graffiti up here. This has been trundle condemned by ALL sectors of society and a couple of kids have been arrested 

 

 

[Brew 5,420]

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

I have not seen any refutation of the Guardian report by anyone and I'm convinced that the Guardian would pull the story if it were proved wrong

 

The story is refuted by those concerned - the Triratna Buddhists and the London Buddhist Centre 

https://thebuddhistcentre.com/londonbuddhistcentre/suella-braverman-triratna-buddhist-order-and-london-buddhist-centre

 

 

I have to disagree also. Where is the evidence of the conspiracy you think the writer is right about. Any evidence the dubious interpretations are valid? Is there any evidence of 'made up' stories. He quotes stories, plural, but cites only one and he gets that wrong!. Unless of course we're counting the ones about Braverman in the Observer and Guardian.

The Guardian lets it's claimed reputation for fairness slip by calling Triratna Buddhists a sect, a disparaging term with negative connotations, clearly they're no such thing. but it does indicate the authors mindset. Other media make no mention 'sects'

And yes, to me the tone is somewhat hysterical, inaccurate and designed to inflame.

 

8 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Worth adding here that many think Braverman is actively trying to get sacked, as she's essentially  running a leadership campaign against Sunak.

 Who are the many? and how would it be of a benefit to be in disgrace with the party?, it hardly makes sense. Hearsay and rumour are not evidence.

The peaceful protests are irrelevant, they're simply 'worrabouts', like the worrabout the pro-Palestinian protester that hit and killed Jewish professor...

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

And we all know that any criticism of Israeli actions and policies automatically  provokes cries of 'Anti Semitism' from many

 

Do we really? That's a massive generalisation.

The protest is running a very successful campaign in the media where there is virtually zero criticism of Hamas, no criticism of the leader, who during an interview, tore of his mic and stormed  out after blatantly lying about the slaughter of innocents. No condemnation of their vowed intent of genocide against Jews.

I said earlier this is too wide and too well organised to be a spontaneous reaction, there are some powerful forces in play. If here is manipulation of the media the pro-Palestinians are winning by miles..

[DJ360 6,730]

We need to step back here.

Nobody I know supports Hamas. Their actions were appalling when they killed hundreds and

took hostages. Most of the civilised world sees Hamas as a terrorist  organisation, Most Palestinias are neither Hamas members nor supporters. And yet Israel has oppressed Palestinians for decades.

 

The far right Israeli leader Netanyahu then after monumentally failing to defend his country fron the Hamas incursion,.claims his country's  right to defend itself and proceeds to do so b,y bombing thousands of innocent Palestinians, also victims of Hamss. out of existence. Hamas have definitely  committed  war crimes by any definition, and many, including the UN think that Israel has done the same

.

The above is the context in which this discussion developed. The so called Pro Palestinian Mobs are calling for a ceasecfire and are by no means exclusively  Palestinian  in make up. Yes, it seems that there is increased anti Semitism  but there is also increased anti Palestinian. There will always be fringe extreme elements 

 

Braverman has distorted all of the above and it isnt the first time her utterly unacceptable language has caused upset.

 

Braverman clearly doesn't understand that our police are independent vof Govt. We dont*(yet) have Political Police.

[HSR 286]

4 hours ago, DJ360 said:

We dont*(yet) have Political Police

 

Really?...

Have you checked out their uniform's nowdays?

Applies to many other's also..

 

Imagine paying union subscription to the people you refuse to talk about..

 

I find it very sad.. we can't vote our way out of this...

 

 

 

 

[DJ360 6,730]

@Brew,

OK.Jim, Braverman is not a member of any Buddhist group..'sect' or otherwise, but she definitely had some sort of flirtation with a group which in turn has association with another, very controversial group. So we're both partly right.

Moving on. I'm at a loss as to how you can see 'conspiracy' in the 'Pro Palestine'/Pro peace/ Pro ceasefire demonstrations, and not see the same amount among the UK far right.

The BBC itself is on shaky ground here by continually characterising marches as 'Pro Palestinian' which by your logic would imply 'anti Israeli' or even anti Semitic.

I still contend that many marchers simply want a ceasefire and an end to the indiscriminate bombing of schools, hospitals and homes in Gaza which has resulted in the deaths of thousands of innocent non combatants.

My point about automatic cries of 'AS' is firmly based in the definition of AS which,if I recall correctly was established by the Board of Jewish Deputies and which effectively states that criticism of the state of Israel is by definition AS. I'm struggling to post and properly research because I'm not yet able to sit at the P.C. and am doing this all on my phone which is not ideal.

Numerous commentators, of assorted stripes have speculated that Braverman may want to be sacked, or at least to defy a weak Sunak, because the Tory Party is still deeply divided and it's far right only temporarily slowed by Sunak. As such Braverman is clearly positioning herself as the 'darling' of the right and a sacking by Sunak would not mean disgrace, so much as a badge of honour and the creation of a 'back bench martyr'..

[Brew 5,420]

Typing all that on a phone would take me a week Col, you have my admiration!

 

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

but she definitely had some sort of flirtation with a group which in turn has association with another, very controversial group. So we're both partly right.

 

I don't believe we are Col. The situation you're describing is like a member of one church being tarred with the same misdeeds committed in another parish years ago. I don't believe it and it's not fair to smear her name with out real proof. I do not support some of her policies but draw the line at attacking her as a person  without good reason.

 

Your man is not hysterical , he's impassioned, Braverman's was not speaking plainly she was 'gobbing off'...? 

 

The Independent has listed ten controversial things she has been criticised for. In the days of the Beast of Bolsover they wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow. But, in this age of apology and hyper correctness we are learning to speak in oblique, ambiguous terms so obscure we will soon need an interpreter.

 

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Moving on. I'm at a loss as to how you can see 'conspiracy' in the 'Pro Palestine'/Pro peace/ Pro ceasefire demonstrations, and not see the same amount among the UK far right.

 

Err, that's not actually what i said. I was referring to this:

 

"It is becoming increasingly clear the far-right such as Braverman, Yaxley Lennon, Farage, the Daily Mail, Express etc are very actively trying to create a riot on Armistice Day."

 

If that's  not describing a conspiracy I don't know what is.

 

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

The BBC itself is on shaky ground here by continually characterising marches as 'Pro Palestinian' which by your logic would imply 'anti Israeli' or even anti Semitic.

 

That might have something to do with the hundreds of banners and people screaming slogans declaring as much. I fail to see how the movement can be anything but anti-Israel.

Pro-Palestine, free Palestine, free Gaza banners and flags, far and away out number the ones demanding a ceasefire. A simple image search on Google confirms this. 

There is a distinct lack of any that condemns Hamas and their policy of genocide.

The BBC report as things are not how we would like.

 

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

I still contend that many marchers simply want a ceasefire and an end to the indiscriminate bombing of schools, hospitals and homes in Gaza w

 

I don't doubt your right, just as I'm equally sure there are many who don't have a clue about the real issues involved but it's a  nice day out to let off some steam.

 

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Numerous commentators, of assorted stripes have speculated that Braverman may want to be sacked, or at least to defy a weak Sunak, because the Tory Party is still deeply divided and it's far right only temporarily slowed by Sunak. As such Braverman is clearly positioning herself as the 'darling' of the right and a sacking by Sunak would not mean disgrace, so much as a badge of honour and the creation of a 'back bench martyr'..

 

I've not seen such, but it is plausible. Does she want to be PM? of course she does, so does the rest of the cabinet and any that say they don't does so through gritted teeth.

[DJ360 6,730]

I think I'd probably agree on the ambitions of most of the current cabinet.  From my perspective they are an exceptionally uninspiring mix of misplaced self belief, ( Schapps, Gove), smug venality ( Rees Mogg, Hunt), terrifying borderline fascist ( Braverman and Co.) and assorted other qualities which should automatically rule them out of suitability for any public office. That said, I dare say there are a few Tory MPs who genuinely believe their politics are 'best for the country' and don't seek to climb further  up the greasy pole .

In my short and undistinguished political career, I never sought to go beyond the position I was elected to and only became Chair because we took turns.

[DJ360 6,730]

So today we will see how successful  Braverman, the Daily Mail and other far right actors have been with their propaganda campaign. Braverman has referred to Gazs ceasefire/ peace marches as 'hate marches' and vastly inflated any threat which might exist to traditional Armistice Day ceremonial. She has cynically and deliberately  re- framed the peace marches, to create the impression  of a baying mob of Jihadists out for blood, and is so doing will have undoubtedly 'fired up' the hard of thinking braindead who run around under the banner of EDL.etc.

Interestingly, yesterday, BBC featured a Jewish woman who, while expressing her increased fear of assaults on individual Jews, also clearly stated that she did NOT believe the 'Pro Palestinian' marches were comprised of 'hundreds of thousands of Jihadists'

Film of previous marchers shows very mixed crowds of mostly solemn people, of all ages and ethnicities, but that is not the impression  deliberately  created by Braverman.

She should be thoroughly ashamed, but of course she won't be be cause her words and actions are very deliberately chosen to cause division. 

Despicable woman. 

[benjamin1945 16,160]

What a state our world is in......the Israel--Gaza conflict is truly 'Heart Breaking''..........to see so many poor children dieing........as John Lennon said 

    ''Give Peace a chance''

[Jill Sparrow 10,307]

The world isn't to blame. It's the out of control human race who are at fault. I've said it before. If, after millions of years of evolution, this is the best we can achieve, it's time we were gone so that other species can get on with their lives. We are no more important than them, despite what we might think.

[DJ360 6,730]

Pretty obvious to me and much of the more sane media that Braverman's deliberate inflammatory  language provoked the far right cretins into trying to get to the Cenotaph, despite there being no threat to the Armistice ceremony from anyone else.

 

Latest news is that the Gaza march is progressing peacefully, ( Just like all the others) but that Far Right groups are expected to try to cause disruption. Time for the BBC to stop calling tham 'counter protesters' and name them for what they are. Far Right Thugs.

[Brew 5,420]

6 hours ago, DJ360 said:

She has cynically and deliberately  re- framed the peace marches, to create the impression  of a baying mob of Jihadists out for blood

 

 No Col don't agree, that's your extremist interpterion and blowing it out of proportion. Nowhere has there been any mention of jihad. 

I'm pleased to say so far it's been peaceful, I hope it stays that way. 

[DJ360 6,730]

She called it and previous marches a 'hate march'. OK, didn't use jihad but deliberately  tried to label the marchrs as supporters of Hammas, and anti semitic.

In fact there were British Jews among the peace marchers. She also implied that marchers would  disrupt the Armistice ceremony, but in reality, the only ones to try to do that were far right morons. Yaxley Lennon was reportedly out, but ran away in a Taxi 

All reports seem to indicate that 300000 disparate folks United only by a desire for peace, caused no trouble.

Braverman's deliberate inflammatory  tactics only served to make her look exactly as stupid as she is.

[MRS B 522]

I see Laurence Fox was there, no surprise.

[Brew 5,420]

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

She called it and previous marches a 'hate march'. OK, didn't use jihad but deliberately  tried to label the marchrs as supporters of Hammas, and anti semitic.

 

Did she though? You're attacking her over semantics. She used the term 'mob. to which you object and assume to be inflammatory.

 

Yet can you not see your posts are no different? Any opposition protesters are  'Far Right Thugs', 'brain dead morons', 'hard of thinking', 'Jihadists'.. Exactly the tone you are castigating her for. You seem to take the view any opposition would be right wing

 

I'm at a loss why you dislike the term pro-Palestinian when it so clearly is. The number of professionally printed 'free Palestine' banners and flags is huge. Free Palestine from what they don't say and few seem to know.

The only banner demanding a ceasefire was home made on a tatty piece of cardboard. 

Think about it, the leadership are very careful  to demand "free Palestine" no mention on any of the official banners for a cessation of hostilitiess or ceasefire.

 

The interviews and reporters all indicate the call is to Israel to initiate a ceasefire, non as far I know call for Hamas to lay down their weapons.  Non as far as I know are calling out Hamas for hiding combatants and arms in a hospital basements.

None have suggested Hamas hand over the Allah Akbar chanting terrorists who slaughtered innocent Jewish children.

 

The whole shebang today is clearly anti- Israel, which is not the same as anti-Israeli i.e. antisemitic and nobody said it was.

 

The Socialist worker is calling not for a ceasefire, but victory. The chant "from the river to the sea" is  not a call for a ceasefire, it's a war cry. The banner reading "stop Gaza genocide" is hardly non-partisan....

 

Pro-Palestine has easily won the high ground today- provided we don't look behind the curtain.

 

True expected explosion did no occur and that was in no little part due to a well planned and executed police operation.