Anything Political

[philmayfield 6,316]

It’s good to live here in leafy Newark and Sherwood, the sole Conservative seat in Notts. 

[DJ360 6,784]

Overall, a very satisfactory outcome..

 

Obviously I welcome a Labour Govt. getting the chance to sort out some of the Tory mess, but I have no illusions. It will not be easy.

I'm particularly pleased that the Tory losses include many of what I see as their worst, most disingenuous, self interested, dishonest and unpleasant characters.  Including Grant Schapps the Spiv, Rees-Mogg... 'Minister for the 19th Century', Steve Baker smooth talking but deeply unpleasant right winger and lots of others. 

 

Obviously it's a pity that Anderson got elected.. for ANY party, as he has clearly shown himself to be an entirely morality free zone. A 'chancer'.  And speaking of 'chancers', excellent to see that self regarding abberation Galloway ousted.  So tired last night that despite the momentous events I just had to hit the sack.. but the last 'incoming'.. I saw, was Neil Kinnock, visibly delighted to see the back of Galloway. and summing him up, rightly in my view, as 'repellent'.

 

I'm pleased to see the Lib Dem gains, as it shows a further move in (much of )the national consciousness, towards the left, and away from the right. 

The Reform voter share is a concern.  It shows how easily many can be conned by simplistic argument and exaggerated promises.  But thankfully only four seats. I'd be surprised if Farage lasts long, when the reality of actually being an MP hits home.. but if he stays, he'll be pretty isolated, which will most likely result in him 'gobbing off' inadvisedly..  Anderson I've mentioned... the other two I know nothing about, but going on what I've seen of actual candidates in debate on the telly etc.. I don't expect much of real concern from them...they are mostly not that bright.

 

15 hours ago, Brew said:

I wonder who you voted for??

 

And I you...  I'll show you mine if you show me yours....

 

5 hours ago, Oztalgian said:

Nigel Farage has just been elected for the seat of Clacton winning by around 8,500 votes over the sitting Conservative. It was his 8th attempt at gaining a seat.

 

Closer to home Ashfield elected the first Reform UK Member of Parliament in Lee Anderson. The political chameleon was elected a Labour member of the local council in 2015, defected to the Conservatives in 2018 and was elected as the Conservative member for Ashfield in the 2019 General Election. In March 2024 was selected as the Reform candidate for Ashfield and was duly elected today by just over 5,500 votes.

The sitting MP For Broxtowe, Darren Henry (Conservative) has lost the seat to Juliet Campbell (Labour)

Rushcliffe has elected a Labour MP for the first time since 1966, James Naish (Labour) defeated the sitting Conservative member Ruth Edwards.

Labour holds Nottingham North and Kimberley, and Nottingham South.

 

Quite pleasing.  As far as I understand, the execrable Jenrick has held Newark, which again is a pity and an affront to decent people of all stripes.. but 'them's the breaks'..we can't have everything.

 

2 hours ago, Oztalgian said:

You can probably guess by now that I am a big election geek.

 

The Conservatives have held Newark, now the only Conservative seat in Nottinghamshire with six Conservatives losing their seats. Labour wins Sherwood Forest, takes Mansfield from the Conservatives and holds Nottingham East.

Labour wins Gedling and Bassetlaw from the Tories.

Across the country there appears to have been a number of "Portello Moments" where at least a dozen ministers and 8 cabinet ministers have lost their seats.

 

The major downside is that in their acceptance speeches the key Labour candidates came out with the same usual crap as the Conservatives did 14 years ago.

"Change Begins Now" appears to be the tag line.

We will govern for everyone regardless of how they voted.

The people have spoken and they are ready for change.

You have voted and it is now time for us to deliver.

To end the politics of performance and return to politics as public service.

As usual the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

 

Jeremey Corbyn, standing as an independent for Islington North has been elected.

It looks like the SNP has been reduced to six seats and there are no Conservative seats in Wales.

The Lib Dems appear to have done well

 

The turnout looks to have a 5 in front of the percentage.

Even though Labour will win their total number of votes is well down.

Apparently the BBC's election coverage was panned. I have been watching GB News, the only live free to air coverage we can get and surprisingly they have been concentrating on keeping us up to date with the results.

 

Now back to something far more important than an election .... Will England win on Sunday.

 

Lots in there Oz.  I've seen nothing indicating a 'panning' of BBC coverage, but then I don't watch the privately owned Far Right Propaganda Channel GB News, which has been repeatedly warned for breaches of the rules around Political reporting and cannot in any real sense be ragarded as a 'proper' news channel. Can you tell us the source?

 

I'm quite pleased that Corbyn won as Independent Labour, it just might make Starmer think..as will several Independents, who basically won by opposing Starmer's pathetic response to the Gaza question.

 

Quote

As usual the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

 

Thanks for getting the wording right.. which so many don't..

[DJ360 6,784]

 

Interesting link...

 

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/general-election-2024.292615/post-5337970

 

 

 

[Brew 5,516]

On 7/4/2024 at 4:38 AM, Oztalgian said:

By the time I go to bed tonight the result of the UK General Election will have probably been determined.

As an outsider looking in and given the last 14 years it appears that Labour will have a resounding victory.

The UK can only go forward under Labour if it -:

• Adopts a centrist position and stops pandering to the extreme left in the party.
• Gets illegal immigration under control, some hard decisions need to be made.
• Resists the temptation to spend on largesse. e.g unwarranted foreign aid, unfair tax breaks to individuals, companies and corporations.
• Restricts spending to what needs to be done and not what would be nice to do.
• Review and reduce non front facing employees in the public service and institutions e.g. NHS administrators etc.
• Takes back into public ownership key utilities i.e. Gas, Electricity distribution and generation, all water related services and key transport services e.g rail.
• If they have any sense at all they will overturn Brexit and re-enter Europe with revised rules, not sure if the EU will accept this.

This bit would be a 'like' from me, the second half wouldn't

[Brew 5,516]

45 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

who basically won by opposing Starmer's pathetic response to the Gaza question.

 

 

Virtually the only Starmer decision I agree with.

[Cliff Ton 10,587]

The big surprise for me is just how many seats the Lib Dems got - 71.

[Oztalgian 3,423]

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

Lots in there Oz.  I've seen nothing indicating a 'panning' of BBC coverage, but then I don't watch the privately owned Far Right Propaganda Channel GB News, which has been repeatedly warned for breaches of the rules around Political reporting and cannot in any real sense be ragarded as a 'proper' news channel. Can you tell us the source?

Two sources DJ360. It was social media(not GB News), some stupid questions about chickens raised some peoples hackles and GB news on-line election coverage.

[LizzieM 9,546]

2 hours ago, philmayfield said:

It’s good to live here in leafy Newark and Sherwood, the sole Conservative seat in Notts. 

It’s a pity the Nottingham City electorate are so gullible, I can’t make any other comment.  

[Oztalgian 3,423]

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

Can you tell us the source?

Just remembered, also the Daily Mail on line

Viewers switch off BBC's general election coverage, branding Clive Myrie and Laura Kuenssberg a 'pointless double act' and bemoaning the 'endless wittering' instead of reporting from the counts | Daily Mail Online

[Oztalgian 3,423]

Given that so many Tory "Big Beasts" were slaughtered yesterday who is in the running for leadership of the poison chalice that is now the Conservative party?

What are the bookies saying?

[philmayfield 6,316]

At least Newark rejected Saj Ahmad, the Nottingham City Council Labour candidate. The fruitcake Palmer from Fiskerton, the Farage candidate, picked up 8,000 plus votes! 

[DJ360 6,784]

47 minutes ago, Oztalgian said:

Two sources DJ360. It was social media(not GB News), some stupid questions about chickens raised some peoples hackles and GB news on-line election coverage.

 

I wouldn't trust Social Media much. I suspect they don't like the 'Chicken Run' allusion to Tory MPs parachuting themselves into safer seats in anticipation of the Labour landslide.

 

GB News is simply not to be trusted with news.  It is a hugely biased Right Wing Propaganda Channel which has more than once been caught out using sitting politicians as 'newsreaders', which is against all broadcasting rules on 'impartial political broadcasting.'

Yes, I've had my pops at the BBC, but in general it is positively saintly c.f. GB News and a few other largely American backed far right channels.

[DJ360 6,784]

43 minutes ago, Oztalgian said:

Just remembered, also the Daily Mail on line

Viewers switch off BBC's general election coverage, branding Clive Myrie and Laura Kuenssberg a 'pointless double act' and bemoaning the 'endless wittering' instead of reporting from the counts | Daily Mail Online

 

Typical Daily Mail bull****.  Viewers, means at least two..and I'd very much doubt the Mail verified that.  Usually the Mail just makes stuff up.  I'm pretty sure Jim would agree.

[DJ360 6,784]

44 minutes ago, Oztalgian said:

What are the bookies saying?

 

Well if anybody knows what the Bookies are saying..the Tories will..

[Brew 5,516]

Pointless now but I'm convinced Rory Stewart would have been a better choice of leader way back when. Looking round now Sunak is about to fall on his sword so who is left? Braverman, Hunt, Badenoch? Place your bets

 

[Brew 5,516]

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

Typical Daily Mail bull****.  Viewers, means at least two..and I'd very much doubt the Mail verified that.  Usually the Mail just makes stuff up.  I'm pretty sure Jim would agree.

Petty much but my opinion of the Daily Mail is limited by the fact I've not read it for years. On the other hand, the Mailonline who's headlines appear regularly on the BBC side panel is a different matter.

I often skim it as opposed to really reading it. I'm presuming the content will be much the same as its printed counterpart and has little attraction as a source of information, (does that sound too arrogant?).

It claims to be a separate entity with its own editor - but has the same owners.

The newspaper is the third largest 'paid for' newspaper by circulation so some must like it.

[Oztalgian 3,423]

A quick summary of the 2024 General Election, a number of differing sources have been used.

 

First Past the Post must surely be on life support following this General Election.

How can a system the gives a party a majority of 174 seats (one result in Scotland is yet to be declared with the Lib Dems and SNP in contention) with 412 seats having polled only just over a third of total votes cast be called democratic.

Labour gained 34% of the vote and won 63% of the seats

Conservatives gained 24% of the vote and won 19% of the seats (close to being a democratic vote)

Reform UK won 14% of the vote and won 1% of the seats

Lib Dem won 12% of the vote and 11% of the seats (a democratic result)

Greens won 7% of the vote and won 1% of the seats

Methinks Sir Keith despite his promises to change the system will hardly be rushing to make any changes to a system that has worked to Labour's favour like this. Labour has the lowest share of the vote on record for a party that has won a majority at a general election

 

Turnout is estimated to be the lowest in 20 years, the second lowest since 1885, at just below 60%. Is this because the public could just not be bothered to vote, disillusionment with the system/politics as a whole or some other reason?

 

113 (17.4%) of seats were won with a majority of less than 5%. The tightest were Basildon and Billericay, 18 votes in Poole and 15 in Hendon.

182 seats changed from blue to red, Reform UK gains all came from Conservative seats, Labour lost 5 seats to independents, 1 to the Conservatives and 1 to the greens. Dartford holds the record of being the longest running bellwether seat since 1964. There are 4 others since 1974.

Regionally, in the Midlands the Conservatives lost 67 seats and Labour won 54. In the North the 'Blue Wall' collapsed when the Conservatives lost 53 seats, Labour gained 47. In the south and west the Conservatives lost 107 seats, Labour gained 58 and the Lib Dems 46

In Scotland Labour took 36 seats from the SNP. In Wales Labour has 27 of the 32 seats, the Conservatives do not have any seats in Wales. In Northern Ireland Sinn Fein is now the largest Westminster party. Surprisingly The TUV took the seat of North Antrim unseating Ian Paisley Jnr.

 

Women will make up 4 in ten of the members with 263 in all. 87 Ethnic minority MP were elected and now comprises 13% of the parliament vs 14% of the UK electorate. 

 

 

 

[Stuart.C 507]

And this is the predicted outcome if the election had been P.R

From the Electoral Reform Society.

 

No party with an overall majority, not a single thing would get passed, there'd be a new coalition every month.

It was bad enough with the Conservatives fighting amongst themselves, imagine the outcome when all the other parties want to force another election to improve their own position.
We'd be having an election every year.

 

 

 

[Mess 638]

2 hours ago, Oztalgian said:

A quick summary of the 2024 General Election, a number of differing sources have been used.

 

First Past the Post must surely be on life support following this General Election.

How can a system the gives a party a majority of 174 seats (one result in Scotland is yet to be declared with the Lib Dems and SNP in contention) with 412 seats having polled only just over a third of total votes cast be called democratic.

Labour gained 34% of the vote and won 63% of the seats

Conservatives gained 24% of the vote and won 19% of the seats (close to being a democratic vote)

Reform UK won 14% of the vote and won 1% of the seats

Lib Dem won 12% of the vote and 11% of the seats (a democratic result)

Greens won 7% of the vote and won 1% of the seats

Methinks Sir Keith despite his promises to change the system will hardly be rushing to make any changes to a system that has worked to Labour's favour like this. Labour has the lowest share of the vote on record for a party that has won a majority at a general election

 

Turnout is estimated to be the lowest in 20 years, the second lowest since 1885, at just below 60%. Is this because the public could just not be bothered to vote, disillusionment with the system/politics as a whole or some other reason?

 

113 (17.4%) of seats were won with a majority of less than 5%. The tightest were Basildon and Billericay, 18 votes in Poole and 15 in Hendon.

182 seats changed from blue to red, Reform UK gains all came from Conservative seats, Labour lost 5 seats to independents, 1 to the Conservatives and 1 to the greens. Dartford holds the record of being the longest running bellwether seat since 1964. There are 4 others since 1974.

Regionally, in the Midlands the Conservatives lost 67 seats and Labour won 54. In the North the 'Blue Wall' collapsed when the Conservatives lost 53 seats, Labour gained 47. In the south and west the Conservatives lost 107 seats, Labour gained 58 and the Lib Dems 46

In Scotland Labour took 36 seats from the SNP. In Wales Labour has 27 of the 32 seats, the Conservatives do not have any seats in Wales. In Northern Ireland Sinn Fein is now the largest Westminster party. Surprisingly The TUV took the seat of North Antrim unseating Ian Paisley Jnr.

 

Women will make up 4 in ten of the members with 263 in all. 87 Ethnic minority MP were elected and now comprises 13% of the parliament vs 14% of the UK electorate. 

 

 

 

Oz,

I can't see the First Past the Post system lasting too much longer either.

The Tories, who I support got the kicking they deserved.

The next few years are going to be very interesting for Britain.

I like Keir Starmer. He's well educated and presents well. Nobody can deny he's done an amazing job turning the party around after the Corbyn debacle.

I really hope he can keep the left wing of his party under control but fear Angela Raynor is already plotting.

The militants and the unions have a very different agenda to Sir Keir so he might not last very long which is a worry for me.

As a pensioner I don't feel too threatened but I don't think the Labour Party will be good for the economy of Britain although during the election campaign they've said lots of times they are financing their plans through growth which won't happen if they screw up business with high taxation.

Many people have blamed the Tories for wrecking the economy but  I personally think it was COVID that did it. It was a crazy time and a coalition should have been formed to tackle it just as in Workd War II.

Boris and Partygate and Liz Truss' insane mini budget didn't help either but the Tories will regroup to fight again in the future of that I'm sure.

[Oztalgian 3,423]

25 minutes ago, Stuart.C said:

No party with an overall majority, not a single thing would get passed, there'd be a new coalition every month.

 

26 minutes ago, Stuart.C said:

We'd be having an election every year.

Governments at Federal and State levels have worked quite satisfactorily in minority here. Not having an absolute majority does necessitate deals being done but often results in better, more sensible legislation than that of the extreme right or left in a majority

[Oztalgian 3,423]

I thought I would do a critique on the Sir Keir Starmer's Senior Cabinet with a focus on their life experiences vs their cabinet roles and give them a score out of ten for compatibility.

Firstly, I think Starmer is to be applauded for the roles he has given to women including the first female Chancellor of the Exchequer.

 

Angela Raynor aged 44, from Stockport. Deputy Leader and Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities

No formal qualifications when leaving school. Subsequently learned British Sign Language and gained NVQ Level 2 in social care. Worked for the local council as a care worker for a number of years. Elected as a union rep for Unison and subsequently elected as Convenor for Unison South West. Elected to parliament in 2015 Self proclaimed 'soft left' socialist. A supporter of Palestinian rights and neutral on Brexit. Has been in a few "scrapes" with the system. 

Her history of coming through the union ranks fits her well as deputy as does her care work for Levelling up and Communities.

Minimal experience working outside of "government" and unions.   Score 7

 

Rachel Reeves aged 45 originally from Lewisham. Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Educated in a comprehensive school, sat A levels in politics, economics, maths and higher maths. Gained a 2:1 BA Degree from Oxford and went on to be awarded a MSc in economics from the LSE. After Leaving uni. worked at the Bank of England (role not specified) and then moved to Leeds to work in the retail arm of HBOS. Was interviewed for a role with Goldman Sachs but turned it down.

Joined the Labour Party aged 16, after an unsuccessful attempt in the seat Bromley and Chiselhurst she was elected to parliament for the seat of Leeds West in 2010. Became Shadow COTE in 2021. Adheres to "Modern supply side economics" and coined the term "securinomics" which she said is based on the "rock of fiscal responsibility"

Is vice chair of Labour Friends of Israel and has some media coverage over donations.

Seemingly a good fit   Score 8

 

David Lammy, aged 51 grew up in Tottenham. Foreign Secretary.

Went to Downhills Primary School and aged 10 was awarded a scholarship to sing at Peterborough Cathedral and attend The Kings School there also. Studied at the SOAS at London Uni and graduated with a 2:1 in Law.

Called to the bar in 1994. Went on to study at Harvard University and graduated with a Masters of Law degree in 1997. Employed as an attorney with two US law firms until 2000. Elected to the seat of Tottenham in June 2000. Had various roles in the Blair and Brown governments including ministerial. Voted in favour of authorisation to invade Iraq. He is a good friend of Jeremy Corbyn and was one of 36 mp's who nominated him as leader in 2015. Was appointed Shadow Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonweath and Development Affairs in 2021. Has strong views on crime, race, prejudice and equality especially as it applies to minorities of colour. He voted for the Brexit deal. In March 2016 he was fined 5,000 pounds for sending out automatic phone calls urging people to support his London Mayoral campaign. He was the first MP to be fined for authorising nuisance calls. In 2022 an inquiry found that he had inadvertently breached the MP's code of conduct and apologised. In a visit to the USA in May 2024 described himself as "a good christian, a small c conservative who had a common cause with the Republican Party.

Appears to have a lot of strong views but at times a little confused and conflicted.   Score 5

 

Yvette Cooper aged 55 Born in Inverness. Home Secretary

Educated at a comprehensive school and a college in Hampshire. Studied philosophy, politics and economics at Oxford and gained a 1st Class Honours Degree, went on to study at Harvard and completed her post-grad studies with a MSc in Economics from the LSE.

Worked as policy researcher for the shadow chancellor in 1990 and then in 1992 for Bill Clinton in Arkansas. Returned from the US and Became a policy advisor to Harriet Harman. In 1995 became chief economics correspondent of The Independent until she was elected as member for Pontefract and Castleford in 1997. Under the Blair and Brown governments held two undersecretary roles for Health and Coalfield Regeneration. After the 2005 election became Minister of Housing and Planning where she was required to implement the Home Information Pack scheme. As Chief Secretary to the Treasury was involved in bringing Northern Rock back into public ownership. In 2009 as Secretary of State for Work and Pensions led the Welfare Reform Act, designed to use sanctions to force people back into the workforce. Took up the role of Shadow Home Secretary in 2011. After the 2015 election she was one of 4 nominated for the party leadership. She supported Lewis Smith over Jeremy Corbyn in the 2016 leadership election.

Like Rachel Reeves is a member of Labour Friends of Israel. Consistently fought against a no-deal Brexit. Together with her husband Ed Balls faced allegations over expenses. It was ultimately found that both her and her husband had received overpayments of 1363 ponds and were ordered to repay them.

No experience at all outside the world of politics   Score 6

 

John Healey aged 64 From Wakefield. Defence Secretary

Educated in Pickering and did 6th form at an independent school in York. Studied Social and Political Science at Cambridge receiving a BA in 1982.

Worked for a year as a journalist for the internal magazine of the Palace of Westminster. In 1984 worked as a disability rights campaigner for a number of national charities. Joined Issues Communications in 1990 as campaign manager before becoming head of communications at the Manufacturing, Science and Finance trade union in 1992. Became campaign director for the TUC in 1994 until his election to parliament for the seat of Wentworth in 1977. Vastly experienced with roles in the Exchequer's department, Adult Skills, Housing and Planning and Health. had a role in assisting the recovery following the widespread floods in 2007. In 2009 was appointed minister of state for Housing and Planning. He was quickly criticised for suggesting that more people renting rather than buying their homes was a good thing. in the 2010 election won the newly created seat of Wentworth and Dearne and became Shadow Secretary of State for Health. Along with two other Rotherham MP's was awarded 54,00 pounds each in damages against a UKIP MP who claimed the three MP's knew about child exploitation but did not intervene.  He supported Owen Smith in the failed attempt to replace Jeremy Corbyn, after the subsequent leadership change he was appointed shadow Secretary of State for Housing. When Keith Starmer was elected leader he was appointed shadow Secretary of State for Defence. He is a staunch supporter of Ukraine in its war against Russia and committed to increasing the defence spend to 2.5% of GDP by 2030. He supported Britain's participation in the war against Iraq and in 2024 said the decision was not sound at the time.

As far as I can see he has no relevant experience that would equip him for the role of Defence Secretary   Score 3

[Jill Sparrow 10,432]

33 minutes ago, Oztalgian said:

Starmer is to be applauded for the roles he has given to women including...

 

Angela Raynor aged 44, from Stockport. Deputy Leader

He'll regret it. She'll take his job if he doesn't watch his backside.

[philmayfield 6,316]

Angela Raynor as deputy! He’s scraping the bottom of the barrel from day one!

[Brew 5,516]

8 hours ago, Oztalgian said:

First Past the Post must surely be on life support following this General Election.

How can a system the gives a party a majority of 174 seats (one result in Scotland is yet to be declared with the Lib Dems and SNP in contention) with 412 seats having polled only just over a third of total votes cast be called democratic.

It can't and isn't. Democracy is when the people decides on policy initiatives without elected representatives as proxies. We and the rest of the world who claim to be a democracy actually aren't, we used a bastardrized version which differs from democracy in it's truest sense.

It's a fact the percentages you quote serve to demonstrate the inequalities of the system and on a simplistic proportional system more voted against Labour than for. It means however without a clear majority and a clear leader decsions would be reliant on differing factions agreeing and the nature of ever changing alliances precludes that happening, a hung parliament is neither use nor ornament.

 

I really don't car for those who boast of having a set number or percentage of women, I really don't care what gender they are provided they can do the job; promotion should be on competence not as a token.

[Jill Sparrow 10,432]

1 hour ago, Brew said:

I really don't care for those who boast of having a set number or percentage of women, I really don't care what gender they are provided they can do the job; promotion should be on competence not as a token.

I agree and the only caveat I'd add is that females can be very sly and manipulative in a way that never occurs to most males. I'm not of that type myself but I have encountered plenty of women who were.  There are exceptions, but I have never particularly enjoyed working with other females. Males are much more straightforward.