Ayupmeducks 1,730 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 I once asked a Polish fitter who I worked with in Australia what language he thought in.....English he said, if I thought in Polish I'd be forever translating, he even said he dreamed in English! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nonnaB 4,895 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Thats true. Ayupme ducks. My husband thinks and dreams in english. He even swears in english. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,108 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Just returned from London where I saw another extremely irritating thing. Draught beer advertised as DRAFT beer FFS. .. If I write a letter it's a draft. Not beer...... Tw4ts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,108 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Oh.... I did find someone down there who spoke English..... You've guessed it. He was a New Zealander .LOL 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OrphanAnnie 296 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 My local Co-op had a sign up in April about St George's Day which stated it was on the 23th! When I pointed it out to the cahsier she didn't have the foggiest idea what I was on about. I have also seen the 23th recently on one of those documentaries that recall events in 'real time'. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chulla 4,946 Posted February 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 This would seem to be the correct thread to post this item. I have never liked the use of the word 'gay' to describe homosexuals. To me it has always smacked of a beautiful verb being hijacked for a sordid reason. I have never used it and never will. Imagine my surprise, then, to find that it is genuine and relevant. My Pocket Oxford Dictionary has the following entry for the word 'gay'. Light-hearted, sportive, mirthful, showy, brilliant. Then it says '(euphemism)dissolute'. Checking the word 'dissolute' it says 'morally lax, licentious'. And for 'licentious' it says 'immoral in sexual relations'. So, it appears that the word is correct, and was originally coined by those opposing the actions of homosexuals, and over the years has taken on an opposite meaning by those involved, which seems strange. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,108 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 It just goes to prove my theory beyond a shadow of a doubt that we have the most amazing, diverse and complex language imaginable. We have so many words from different languages which slot into English perfectly. Not all though I must add. Well done Chulla for that little exercise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJBrenton 738 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I saw (and photographed) giant Valentine's cookies in Morrison's today that said 'Your the one' The different complexities of languages I find interesting as I speak a few. The most complex and difficult language to learn is apparently Polish, as it has so many cases and genders. A waitress can ask 'tea or coffee' and there are 9 different common ways of asking using only 3 words. I do maintain that English is the hardest to sound like a native in though as we have so much colloquial or 'shorthand' ways of saying things. it is also the most nuanced language together with Cantonese. Where we stress a word can alter or add to the meaning of the sentence. I always give the following example. She said she didn't do it - exactly as it sounds She said she didn't do it - but others presumably said she DID. She said she didn't do it - but her body language said she did She said she didn't do it - but she sure as hell knows who did She said she didn't do it - pretty emphatically didn't She said she didn't do it - so she only planned it did she She said she didn't do it - But she obviously did SOMETHING It would take forever for a foreigner to acquire such an understanding of our language that they would appreciate those differences. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,108 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 A good point DJB, I'll try to remember that when under interrogation from madam. LOL 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chulla 4,946 Posted February 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Excellent example, DJB. I often wonder if any other language has such nuances that change the understanding of a word. Does French, German, and does Italian, nonna? How would an Italian stress the word 'she' in the first example? Somewhere back on a previous thread I gave the different sounds to 'ough'. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nonnaB 4,895 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Yes it does Chulla . But "she" (lei) can get mixed up with formal you ( lei) Its not as comlpex as english Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chulla 4,946 Posted February 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Presumably then, an Italian might say 'she said she didn't do it', and has to be careful not to imply that 'you' said she didn't do it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJBrenton 738 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 A favourite of my old English teacher was to ask how you would pronounce the made-up word 'ghoti' as an example of how irregular English spelling and pronunciation was. Ghoti is pronounced FISH. Gh as in couGH o as in Women and Ti as in Station and you end up with Fish The reason English is so nuanced and varied is because it's a mongrel language. The Latin and Germanic languages all have pretty strict rules. Show me any French, Spanish and Italian word I don't know and I can tell you with almost absolute certainty how it is pronounced. The same with German. There are very few irregular verbs in the Latin languages compared to English too. One of the things I'm curious about is why, in so many languages, the most common verbs, such as 'to be', are irregular. You'd think the most commonly used verbs would become simplified such that they were regular English I AM You ARE He IS etc French Je SUIS Tu EST Nous SOMMES, Ils SONT etc Spanish Soy Eres Es Somos etc German Ich BIN du BIST wir SIND etc 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff Ton 10,470 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 One of the great things about english is that we have got rid of the stupid idea of making nouns masculine or feminine. Why do other languages persist with it? The one I know best is French; so you get the pointless idea that a door is female but a wall is masculine. A tree is feminine but a roof is masculine. Why ? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJBrenton 738 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 The reason genders persist is because by the time you're an adolescent, you use them without thought so you don't consider them a problem. Think of all the irregular verbs in the English language. We don't give the slightest thought to the different words we use instead of saying I be, you be, he be, they be, we be. It's just not a problem conjugating irregular verbs when it's your native language. It's only when learning a new language that it's a problem and no-one is going to change their language just to make it easier for foreigners to learn. We would have to deliberately start imitating poor English speakers to simplify our language. French isn't even a great example, they only have 2 genders. German and many others also also have neuter and Swahili has 18 noun classes or genders. Other than English, I think Finnish is the only Western European language without noun genders. Sorry to be a bit of a bore but linguistics was my thing through school and Uni., Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chulla 4,946 Posted February 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I can't answer your question about irregular verbs, DJ, but it might have something to do with 'be', in this case, being an intransitive verb (one that does not imply direct action). Just a guess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nonnaB 4,895 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Presumably then, an Italian might say 'she said she didn't do it', and has to be careful not to imply that 'you' said she didn't do it? L' detto che non la fatta. Or Lei ha detto che non la fatta. Or Ha detto che non la fatta lei. Lei is used when talking to an older person or writing a letter. The same thing in english when one word has more than one meaning. You have to see it in its context. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nonnaB 4,895 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 DJB Also Italian Io sono Tu sei Lui/ Lei e' Noi siamo Voi siete Loro sono I agree its was a pain conjugations but every language is learnable Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MargieH 7,603 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 DJB #113. Or even tu es? I'm having a picky day today - everything needs to be exactly right! Now why aren't my daffodils in neat clumps and where are the serviettes that match the dinner plates and why am I writing this rubbish..... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,108 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Now then Margie, no waffling or you'll have Mr F back. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJBrenton 738 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 DJB #113. Or even tu es? I'm having a picky day today - everything needs to be exactly right! Now why aren't my daffodils in neat clumps and where are the serviettes that match the dinner plates and why am I writing this rubbish..... Sorry, mistype. Of all the languages to get wrong, it's the one I'm most fluent in nowadays. despite my degree being in Spanish, the different amount of time I've spent in the two countries mean my French is now better than my Spanish, although you wouldn't know it from that post. <hangs head in shame> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chulla 4,946 Posted February 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 #117. Sorry nonna, but without an English translation your explanation is meaningless to me. BTW, where has your avatar gone? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nonnaB 4,895 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Chulla all three say the same thing. She said she didn't do it. In fact I made a mistake in the first one it should have been " L'ha detto che non la fatta" she said she didnt do it.. I was fed up with my avatar and tried to post a different one but although I cropped the photo it said it was too big , so in the end I got fedup and left it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chulla 4,946 Posted February 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 OK, got it now, thanks. I note the L'. Is this like French where the vowel is removed to make the word flow easily into the next? But in this case the next word is not a vowel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nonnaB 4,895 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 But is pronounced as a vowel as in " a" as in cat. Dropping the " h". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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