Mid-60s dress standards; a headmaster's comment.

[Chulla 4,946]

Thanks Jill and Ann, I thought it might be so. How many bright children might have gone on to good jobs had they gone to higher education. I have no complaints; the seven school reports I got in the seniors had me twice No.1 in the class and never lower than ninth. My Leaving Certificate has 12 averages, 3 above average and 1 good. These average results got me a good job beginning with a trade apprenticeship. Always wondered what would have happened if I had gone to High Pavement. As things turned out I am glad I didn't. I left school with no qualifications; I cannot see this happening to someone like me today.

 

BTW. is there a difference between a High School and a Grammar School?  

[Jill Sparrow 10,417]

#26

 

Do you mean you can't see someone like you leaving school today with no qualifications or you can't see them getting a trade apprenticeship, Chulla?

 

I suspect anything like the apprenticeships of former years are thin on the ground now but i'd be willing to bet that it's all too easy to leave school with no qualifications.

 

Irrespective of whether one was educated at secondary modern or grammar school, those with a thirst for learning usually went on to further or higher education later on via night school or university. Manning had such a bad effect on me that I swore I'd never study again but in my 20s I was an undergraduate, going on to post Graduate studies later. It wasn't learning I was opposed to, just the regime by which it had been delivered.

 

If people want to learn, to study and progress academically, they will find a way to do so. I'd love to do a PhD when I retire but it depends on whether this Swiss cheese between my ears is up to it! 

 

[DJ360 6,775]

Interesting thread.

 

Round here in Merseyside and Greater Manchester the term 'High School'. is pretty much applied to all secondary schools, the bulk of which are Comprehensives.  This is slowly changing as more become (spit..) 'Academies'.

 

Nottingham High school as I understand it is effectively a Grammar School which charges fees. (Though they did at least have a few 'Scholarships' back in my day.  May still have them for all I know.) There is a formal term for this type of school but it escapes me.

 

Someone asked whether people were given a choice of whether to go to a Grammar (assuming they passed the 11+)  I think the official position was that you were offered a place at Grammar School and your parents signed an 'Agreement' if they accepted, which could only be broken under certain circumstances.  I have more detail somewhere and will dig it out later.

 

My parents made me fully aware of what is was costing to send me to HP, but never made me feel guilty about it.  There was also a well established Benevolent Fund' which was used to  discretely support people who struggled to comply with uniform and other requirements.  I recall form teachers taking a collection from the class at least once a week. 

 

We were required to provide the following:

 

Uniform:  blazer, cap, tie, grey or white shirts, grey trousers (short for first year) I also had some socks with the school colours round the top and a school scarf.  (Which was stolen from me when I was at college later.)

White shorts, pumps and T shirt for P.E./Athletics

Blue shorts, boots, socks one shirt in blue and one shirt in house colours for Rugby.

Whites for Cricket.

'Suitable attire' and towel for swimming.

White Apron for woodwork/metalwork/ chemistry

Fountain Pen, Pencil, 12" ruler, drawing instruments ( protractor, set squares, compass, dividers etc.)

Bible.

Copy of Hymn Book (Purchsed from school. cost 1s 6d IIRC)

 

I think that covers it.

 

Col

[Jill Sparrow 10,417]

In the early 60s, it was possible for parents to 'buy their child out of school' and I believe the fee was £10 which was a fair bit in those days.

 

I once worked with an ex Manning girl, older than myself, who had threatened to commit suicide if her parents didn't buy her out!

 

This practice had ceased by the time I needed it as the school leaving age had been raised to 16.

[catfan 14,799]

I can remember that Jill !

[Guest]

Since I was a very young 'in in the 60's- am I right that 'waxed' shoelaces were to be had?...or have i had too much Hobgoblin?

[catfan 14,799]

Possibly correct on both issues Ian !

[Chulla 4,946]

#27, The latter, Jill - can't see anyone getting an apprenticeship without so many O, A levels or a GCSE. I suppose it is fair; if ten lads apply for a job, the one with the better qualifications is likely to get it irrespective of aptitude.

 

For the life of me I cannot remember O and A levels and GCSEs in the early 1950s. Did pupils in secondary schools in those days sit for them, or hadn't they been 'invented'?

 

I think I heard that a grammar school taught Latin; others didn't

[katyjay 5,093]

I left school Dec '61. At that time, there was no mention of O levels. You could stay on until you were 16, but those that did took shorthand and typing or, I think a pre nursing course. I guess they didn't think any girl thought beyond secretary or nurse!  Don't remember any other reasons to stay on and don't remember a certificate at the end of it. Certainly didn't get a Leaver's Certificate like Chulla did. Same school anall. But 7 years after him.

[Guest]

Funny that Kath,here in Ireland- when kids stay on they call it the 'Leaving Cert'.

[Jill Sparrow 10,417]

There was something called Matriculation which I've heard my mother refer to but she left at 14 from Guilford Girls on Bar Lane and didn't take it. I have school leaving certificates for both my paternal grandparents but these were only to prove that they had finished their formal education and didn't list any qualifications, as such.

 

We had a Latin, or Classics, master at Manning but the moment the school's future transition to comprehensive status was announced, he left. There would have been no role for him. Admittedly, he was lovely. Too nice for such a regime.

[Jill Sparrow 10,417]

#31

 

I remember liquorice shoelaces! Hate the stuff.

[Guest]

And liquorice pipes Jill,chocolate spanners also!

[Jill Sparrow 10,417]

#38

 

 

I know a few people who are as much use as a chocolate spanner, Ian!

[LizzieM 9,541]

During my school time the Secondary school children took CSEs instead of GCEs that the Grammar kids took.  The brightest (or should I say those who were good at taking exams) took the 13+ to give them a further opportunity of a Grammar School education.  

I have a friend I was at Junior School with. She's a twin, her brother went to Bramcote Tech Grammar, she failed the 11+ and attended Church Drive Girls Secondary School in Arnold.  She has said that at her school expectations weren't high and the girls were expected to find work in factories and shops on leaving school.  I think that in the 60s Grammar system, if you stayed on to do A Levels, it was the norm to go to Teacher Training College, (and without fantastic A level grades either), or go to University to study Medicine.  Well looking back in my old school magazines that seems to be the case at Carlton-Le-Willows GS anyway.

i left school after O Levels and did a one year Secretarial course at Digby College.  Until my final year at school I intended doing A Levels and going to College but I wanted money in my pocket to enjoy the delights of 60s Nottingham, Dungeon, Beachcomber, Boat Clubs.  to this day I haven't regretted that decision.  

[Guest]

Interesting that Lizzie,I found at the Becket School,that the lesson structure was harsh...but the staff allowed for a pupils personality or oddities to shine through.

They didn't bat an eyelid that I wore my Grandads monocle- but were keen for me to acknowledge the difference between a U and a V shaped valley.

[Chulla 4,946]

Here's what I have been talking about.

 

 

[catfan 14,799]

Another thing in the '60s qualifications didn't really matter a great deal. A school leaver could leave school & get a job almost anywhere, some leading to highly skilled apprenticeships.

My brother with no formal qualifcations served his "Time" at the ROF. The NCB also offered one of the finest apprenticeship schemes possible. Ask any ex NCB tech.

All without the help of the careers service too. We never saw a careers advisor ever.

[benjamin1945 16,308]

We had an employment officer Mr Berry on Standard Hill,and were given one appointment with him on leaving Secondary Modern..............'so Benjamin which Pit or Factory do you want to work or perhaps the Railway ?

             Thankyou very much Mr Berry,think i'll sort mesen out...........and have done ever since...........

[catfan 14,799]

Same here benjamin, I once called in at Standard Hill & all they wanted to do was send youngsters to crap dead end jobs.

I was sixteen & had a full motorbike license, "what a about a motorbike telegram lad with the Post Office" he asked, I didn't seem impressed, then he said, "But at eighteen you can become a Postman" he quipped.

Pounding the streets delivering mail didn't do anything for me at all, esp when it had to be done six says a week !

 

I do't think I'll bother or words to that effect followed.

[katyjay 5,093]

We had a careers officer come to our school 3 times a year for each leaving class. If, like me, you said you wanted an office job, you got sent to either Boots, Raleigh or Players. I guess it was the easiest for the officer, as those 3 always had vacancies. (or they were on commission!)

[benjamin1945 16,308]

Yes there were lots of jobs to walk into in 1960..............none that I wanted though,Secondary modern kids were treated with disdain and I was having none of it,......we'd gone from cannon fodder to work fodder for the establishment,cheeky barstewards.............always loved what I did (and still do ) made a bit of money lost a lot of money,started all over again (with nobody's help) made a lot of money lost most of it..........but loved giving life a whirl...........lol.

[Guest]

I don't see any faults with a Grammar School type education.. they do seem to encourage a business or entrepreneurial type of thinking... My three have benefited from this type of seat of education here.

[FLY2 10,109]

Although I detested FFGS, I never regret my GS education. 

[benjamin1945 16,308]

agree Ian,but I believe all kids should be given the same education......it then up to them what they make of it,and not judged at 11 years old or even 13..............