Anything Political

[Brew 5,419]

Not sure BK, I think you have to speak fluent rubbish

[Beekay 5,151]

Thanks for that Brew, at least there's a couple of teachers available. Your servant sir.

[DJ360 6,730]

27 minutes ago, Brew said:

Let's hope there isn't a third...

 

 

Indeed Jim.

What HSR is engaged in here, is generally  known on the Internet as 'thread crapping'. It may stem simply from mischief, or, as seems the case here.. from a deliberate attempt to prevent others from enjoying a legitimate discussion which for whatever reason, the 'crapper' doesn't  like.

His persoal attacks on me also run very close to 'trolling'.

 

[siddha 825]

DJ you continue with the polite discussions with those that you choose.

Ignore the irrationalists and the sadly bigoted it really is waste of your time and energy.

You are like most folk......... some of what you say makes good sense and some doesnt.

[HSR 286]

18 hours ago, Brew said:

HSR are you using recreational pharmaceuticals? Or just a fan of Tim Leary and counter culture prose?

 

Unlike Tim..my nutrients will be committed to Mother Earth. 

 

With all this rain, should be a bumper crop of shrooms this year.

Wollaton Park..the long grass directly facing was always fruitful..40 years ago.

Foragers are out in force nowdays..even the deer

are having their food removed from their table.

 

Yes.. quality of music in times of crisis..and back on political topic..

 

Give me an F..give me a U etc..

Country Joe.

 

Jimi Star Spangled..

Goes beyond music, priceless historic moments.

 

Nowdays..

From John O'Groats to Torquay...

Was at Parliament Square last Saturday when I visted my Daughter.

 

 

 

[Brew 5,419]

Must be your longest ever post.........  pity it make no sense... Try writing when not under the influence, who knows might find it interesting...

 

[DJ360 6,730]

On 11/1/2023 at 12:13 PM, Brew said:

I've not  heard anyone use the term 'bully' so far, and I'm not qualified to diagnose megalomania, that's just yaa boo name calling. Incompetent? he rose to the highest office in the land, and not by accident.

There is a well known recording of him on the phone trying to persuade some associate to get somebody 'roughed up a bit' or similar. He's a definite bully.

 

I'd have thought the megalomania, as with Trump, is blindingly obvious, but I recall the words of his sometime headmaster to the effect that 'Boris is baffled as to why he has not automatically been made Head Boy.'

 

He rose to the 'Highest Office' almost by default.

Had Cameron not 'kow towed' to the Tory Right, ordered a deeply flawed referendum and then 'bottled it' after the Brexit vote, there would have been no vacancy.

Had both May AND Corbyn not adopted the positions they did, there would have been no vacancy.

Only after he changed from a remainer to a Brexiteer, prepared to do anything to 'Get Brexit Dun', did he become PM, by whipping up and capitalising on a populist wave of Brexit fervour, largely again based on lies, about everything from the true role of Parliament, to our true relationship with the EU and so on.

Yes, he's incompetent and this is frequently confirmed by politicians of all stripes, as well as Civil servants and others. He wanted the power, but was largerly disinterested in the work that accompanied it.

On 11/1/2023 at 12:13 PM, Brew said:

eriously, are we are now so short of a stick to beat him with it's down to not liking his attitude, civil servants (Helen MacNamara), not liking and complaining of his "Breezy confidence"?

 

If that was all she'd said, maybe.. but she said a whole lot more, about the 'toxic environment', misogyny (on which she was backed by many others) and so on.

On 11/1/2023 at 1:31 PM, Brew said:

No plan? as I've already pointed out there can hardly be a feasible or workable plan if the civil service are not doing their job, not passing on relative information 

Do you know that to be the case? You seem very willing to accept criticism of the Civil Service, but very unwilling to accept what almost everyone says about the chaotic, toxic, shambolic decision making, which is the actual remit of this phase of the enquiry.

 

On 11/1/2023 at 1:31 PM, Brew said:

You seem quite willing to accept and  interpret things if it suits and disparages Johnson and the Tories in general, yet demand proof if it goes against left wing dogma. 

There is no 'left wing dogma' in my approach to this. I see an incompetent, anti democratic Govt . and cabinet in which a largely absentee P.M. who 'doesn't do detail', allows an unelected weirdo with an ingrained hatred of the Civil Service to run wild.

 

Also it's debatable whether he actually fired Cummings.  They 'fell out' and it looked to me more like Cummings jumping before he was pushed. Still Johnson should never have hired him in the first place.

[Brew 5,419]

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

There is a well known recording of him on the phone trying to persuade some associate to get somebody 'roughed up a bit' or similar.

 

In old fashioned terms Col I'd say he's recommending someone for a bit of a rollocking. Had a few and given a few of those myself. Hardly proof of bullying.

The head master story, really? Headmasters never make disparaging remarks about pupils. There's more than one millionaire who was told they'd never amount to anything.

 

  

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Had Cameron not 'kow towed' to the Tory Right, ordered a deeply flawed referendum and then 'bottled it' after the Brexit vote, there would have been no vacancy.

Had both May AND Corbyn not adopted the positions they did, there would have been no vacancy.

 

Sorry Col but that's simply if's and maybe's and takes nothing away from the fact he did. He won by a considerable margin over J Hunt. We may not think much of him, but credit where credit is due. some will call it underhanded finagling, others clever negotiation. Depends on what hat you wear.

 

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

did he become PM, by whipping up and capitalising on a populist wave of Brexit fervour, largely again based on lies, 

Quite frankly that's how most win elections, there is an almost endless list of manifesto pledges that never actually came to pass.

 

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Yes, he's incompetent and this is frequently confirmed by politicians of all stripes

Seemingly only those who oppose him, others, including a recent witness in the enquiry, make no mention of it.

 

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

but she said a whole lot more, about the 'toxic environment', misogyny (on which she was backed by many others) and so on.

 Yet the same witness I've just referred to (my memory fails me), tends towards an entirely different view and in so many words put it down to a power struggle between Cummings and MacNamara. Also that he did NOT recognise the situation she described!

 

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Do you know that to be the case? You seem very willing to accept criticism of the Civil Service, but very unwilling to accept what almost everyone says about the chaotic, toxic, shambolic decision making, which is the actual remit of this phase of the enquiry.

 

I fully accept they were running round like headless chickens at the start. What I'm nor so sure of is why. There were just too many involved for all of them to be incompetents.

The enquiry, when the lead advocate can stop lolling on his lectern, really needs to ask not how it was, but why it was.

So far we've nothing but bitter backbiting from people with massive egos who thought they knew best but were denied.

 

Do I know it to be the case? no of course not, I'm going by evidence given in the enquiry. As I said I don't believe there was mass incompetence.

Cummings, under oath claimed they did not have enough accurate data or information and it was ONLY after he personally went to the NHS and gathered the relevant data sets did the covid team begin to understand the full situation. Data is fed to cabinet via the civil service is it not?

 

With the ongoing feud, and accepting all sides were truthful, some a assumptions.

The Civil Service failed to do their job, or data was deliberately withheld or delayed, or Cumming's was not entirely truthful. or he himself held the information in order to gain an advantage. Whatever the reason it was not available to the right people at the right time.

 

Possibly the lack of cohesion between so many departments led to misunderstandings.  But to my mind it was not Johnson's job to do the arranging, it was down MacNamara as the senior civil servant and the massive Whitehall machine to organise the main conduit for information and to ensure it was both accurate and relevant. Johnson had every right to expect to be kept up to date by his secretaries etc. but obviously wasn't.

 

I have to agree Cummings was allowed to get way out of line, appointing him turned to be a huge mistake.

I have an extremely low opinion of Cummings but in the interest of balance looked at MacNamara - oh dear.

She tries to give the impression of  gentle soul trapped in a nasty misogynistic bullying macho environment.  But this from awhile back paints a slightly different view:

____________________

 

Speaking at an event on "how women succeed*

She spoke with enthusiasm about "the disruptive power of change" and how "crisis creates the opportunity to be disruptive"

There's no crisis that's much bigger than Covid; and she thinks being disruptive a good thing? Does she believe it and was smacked down when trying to implement a disruptive policy?

 

In late 2015, she was involved in a tribunal case in which she argued that the frequency of cabinet committee meetings should not be made public. It doesn't say why she thought they should be held in camera but...

 

The Information and Rights Tribunal described her as "evasive and disingenuous", and her evidence as "fundamentally flawed and of no value whatever"   Not a good thing to have a your CV...

 

She fell out with Patel after the bullying accusation and actually blocked an inquiry Petal wanted to clear her name.

 

Different strokes for different folks...

 

 

[DJ360 6,730]

I'll return to the Covid enquiry etc., when I'm not quite so up against other stuff like staying warm, getting my knee right etc.

But just one thing which came up during the BBC's coverage  of the King's Speech.

 

There was discussion  of the history and tradition around it. Nobody raised any serious objection to continuing the whole thing, but one person..a Labour MP I think, did point out that many people, struggling with the current economy might justly ask what it all says about Parliament's attitude to ordinary working people.

I was frankly disappointed that the MP in question was not challenged over that, as it is not Parliamament, but the Government, which is responsible for the current state of the nation.

I really wish people would learn to distinguish between them.

Parliamament's role is to scrutinise and hold Govt. to account, and to defend our democracy  from dark forces such as unelected actors like Cummings, and those like Johnson who not only facilitated Cummings et. al, but in Johnson's case, worked deliberately  to disable Parliament to get his own way.

It's unfortunate that the opposition in Parliament is both rather ineffective and limited by a huge govt. majority, but I just get sick of the igjorance which causes people to confuse Govt. and Parliament.

[philmayfield 6,140]

I’ve just watched, out of curiosity, the ‘State Opening of Parliament’. What a load of archaic rubbish. Who was the chappie in the silly fur hat who did the stilted speech?

[Brew 5,419]

The lady Labour MP (i can't remember her name), didn't  really have much of a clue. but used the interview to claim her 15 minutes by making a totally unrelated political point. No doubt trying to impress and raise her profile within the party...

[DJ360 6,730]

I only heard the comment I referenced. I don't think her point was unrelated.. just badly targeted.

[HSR 286]

16 hours ago, philmayfield said:

I’ve just watched, out of curiosity, the ‘State Opening of Parliament’. What a load of archaic rubbish. Who was the chappie in the silly fur hat who did the stilted speech?

 

I think his name is Klaus, why didn't 'Tall Paul' get the job?

[woody 552]

See Gary Lineker is poking his nose into politics again. For a very average broadcaster he has far too much to say about private matters. I thought he had been put in his place after the last outburst but obviously not. High time the licence fee was scrapped instead of overpaying so called celebrities who are supposed to  be neutral but still want to do their own thing. As Lee Anderson said , he should stick to selling crisps.

[DJ360 6,730]

I've seen nothing reported. What has Lineker said and on what platform?

[letsavagoo 963]

I see Carol Vorderman has gone from the BBC as her twitter (X) comments are not compatible with being a BBC broadcaster. I don’t know whether she decided that or it was decided for her. 
DJ.

Gary Lineker has faced criticism for his outspoken views on various political matters on social media  in recent months.

[Brew 5,419]

Lineker made some silly references to the Nazis in relation to the government immigration policies. Later he said he was open to hosting immigrants in his multi-million pound house in London. I would imagine such an offer would have been snapped up immediately yet somehow they've not go round to accommodating any.

 

Vorderman has a right to voice her opinions just as the BBC has a right to defend its integrity and reputation. She appears to have left by mutual agreement. But if I listen carefully I could probably hear the cries of right wing bias from here claiming she was sacked.

 

Unlike Lineker she has stood by her principles and resisted pressure to to keep quiet.

[letsavagoo 963]

49 minutes ago, Brew said:

But if I listen carefully I could probably hear the cries of right wing bias from here claiming she was sacked

Not sure you’re referring to me in this comment but not from me. I met Ms Vorderman briefly when I worked at the BBC. She was/is lovely and can do no wrong in my eyes.
The beeb as the countries national broadcaster should preserve an unbiased stance, something they haven’t always achieved although the left will claim right wing bias and visa versa. 
I believe that Lineker did briefly have a refugee living with him, but a rather well to do one. Can’t recall the details.

[philmayfield 6,140]

I bet you fancied her! 

[Brew 5,419]

Lets, one of the ways this topic survives is by not referencing anyone in particular if it can be avoided, misunderstandings are too easily made with emotive subjects. If you think the I meant you in particular, I didn't.  As with your "left will claim right wing bias and visa versa", it's non-specific

 

The single refugee that Lineker helped was a Pakistani law student who, for whatever reason, abandoned his wife back in Pakistan and stayed with Lineker for a few weeks in 2020. There are another few 000s to choose from if he fancies another.

 

Lineker must look down from an ivory tower when he claims "there is no huge influx"...... "am I wrong?

Yes Gary you're wrong.

Last year the UK population increased by 1% just from immigration alone, and if he can't calculate that for himself I'll do it for him - it's over 600,000 in one year.

 

He's probably going to have a right conniption when he reads Germany are following the UK in exploring Rwanda as an option.

[Cliff Ton 10,467]

I suspect the introduction of Lineker into this thread may be connected with his comments on the Israeli-Palestine situation.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gary-lineker-palestinian-protesters-armistice-day-b2441512.html

[DJ360 6,730]

It all seems very messy.

As far as I can tell the article Cliff has linked to claims that Lineker supports a march concerning Palestinine DURING the Armistice  Day march. According to the News I just watched, the march concerning Palestine is not scheduled to start until AFTER the two minutes silence and some distance away.

Lineker is entitled to  his views. The issue is where he airs them. Newspaper reports can easily distort perceptions around this and 'faux' indignation surrounding all sort of issues is the 'stock in trade' of much of our press.

[Brew 5,419]

Whilst I support the right to protest, I have a rather uneasy feeling that it's so well organised, by whom and who is leading it. That three or four apparently unconnected people can call out so many here is a stretch but internationally?

 

One report accuses George Soros, a left leaning billionaire, of giving $15M to the groups organising the protests, not sure what to think about that.

[DJ360 6,730]

It seems to mecthat even definitions of the proposed march are highly contentious. Is it 'pro Palestine', 'Pro ceasefire', or what? Is there even any conflict between traditional armistice day reflection on 'the fallen' and those seeking peace in Gaza and recognition of the innocent fallen there.

[letsavagoo 963]

12 hours ago, philmayfield said:

I bet you fancied her! 

It was over 25 years ago now but she was breathtakingly beautiful. A real stunner. Much much nicer than I thought she would be. She came to me, chose me from the dozens she could have and whispered sweetly “can you tell me where the little girls room is”. I can still feel the warmth of her breath on my face and the scent of her perfume as she slipped away. In answer Phil, you bet I did.