Anything Political

[DJ360 6,730]

Yes she did. Numerous  marches have passed peacefully, but in her own inimitable way chose to reframe peace/ ceasefire and yes, Pro Palestinian (Not pro Hammas) marches as 'Mobs.' It's an emotive and inflammatory  term, especially when applied to marchers who have protested almost excusively in peaceful fashion for weeks, and are drawn from all sectors of UK society.

 

No, I am not extremist. I 'call out' extremists. My politics are democratic centre left as I have frequently  stated. However it isn't difficult to find extremists  among the members and fellow travellers of the present Tory party, since it is further to the right than any UK mainstream party in my lifetime.

 

I stand by 'Far Right Thugs', 'Brain Dead Morons' and 'Hard of Thinking',all of which I apply to the UK Far Right as represented by the likes of the English Defence League and whatever other groups claim to be the sole Patriots of the UK and who in any other circumstance would be spouting their AS bile. Those attacking police and trying to gain access to the Cenotaph today, whilst shouting 'English till I die' were clearly of that ilk. They certainly weren't there to represent  the Boy Scouts.

It's reported Yaxley Lennon was with them but left in a Taxi. Not a great look for the self styled leader of something or other.

 

The call for a cease fire is surely aimed at both Hammas and the IDF, though I doubt Hammas will listen because their back are against the wall. Also, it is the IDF which is killing thousands of innocent Palestinians , not, as far as I know, Hammas. 

 

Israel claims that Hammas sets up 'command centres' under hospitals etc. That may or may not be true, but I'd suggest that neither you nor I know for certain. Let's face it..although nobody but Hammes is responsible for the incursion, murders and kidnappings, the fact they could do so against one of the most security  conscious countries on the planet, casts doubt on both the IDF and the Netanyahu Govt.

 

I don't support the Socialist Workers Party. They are way too left wing for me.

 

However, we both know that Israel has systematically oppressed, corralled and subjugated Palestinins for decades, whilst continually expanding illegal settlements in defiance of  intwrnational law and opinion.

Even if Israel , under Netanyahu, were to kill every last Palestinian in Gaza, do you really think that would end Hammas?

 

Peace for both Israelis and Palestians depends upon a two state peace agreement and the re-establishment of  civikised governments in both.

I have no idea if you saw it, but there was an interview on BBC news with a young UK Jewish man who was on the peace march. He also understands  that peace will never come via the present attitudes on both sides.

 

As for the 'expected explosion', it only became 'expected' after Braverman raised the temperature and claimed that the marchers were a 'mob'. The only 'mob' seen today were the Far right idiots encouraged by Braverman.

[Brew 5,419]

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

The call for a cease fire is surely aimed at both Hammas and the IDF, though I doubt Hammas will listen because their back are against the wall. Also, it is the IDF which is killing thousands of innocent Palestinians , not, as far as I know, Hammas. 

 

I'm astonished! Hamas have their backs to the wall, IDF killing 000's and you think it understandable not to negotiate a ceasefire?

Are you OK with Hamas sticking to their principles whilst they allow their fellow countryman to die and suffer? Not even a small criticism of the intractability?

 

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Also, it is the IDF which is killing thousands of innocent Palestinians , not, as far as I know, Hammas.

 

Really Col? not that you're biased or anything but but you know that do you? Troops are massacring women and children but giving a free pass to Hamas fighters?

 

Jews did not start this mess though it seems obvious you have little sympathy for a nation that has suffered  thousands of years of oppression.

There was never a Palestine before 1947/8, or Hamas prior to '87. The Abraham Accord, two Arab nations recognising Israel's right to exist, progress to reconciliation and other less formal agreements now lies in ruins..

It was Iran. India and the former Yugoslavia (1948) that had a solution of a one party state. Israel  agreed, guess who didn't.

Israel only occupied the West Bank after being attacked by the armed forces of six neighbouring states who's avowed intentions were to wipe Israel from the map, yet still they are the bad guys. Hamas and their ilk have broken virtually every peace agreement and  only hold power in Gaza by force against their own people, but let's not count that they're the good guys.

Rabin and Abbas signed thew Oslo agreement, the PLO screwed that up.... It just goes on and on and blaming others is a national pastime

 

You may stand by the name calling but it only serves to indicated to me Col you are much further left than you believe yourself to be. You cannot claim the right for such expressions yet condemn similar from someone who holds different views to you, and uses slightly less aggressive words to boot.

 

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

I have no idea if you saw it, but there was an interview on BBC news with a young UK Jewish man who was on the peace march.

 

I also saw the young lady who thought the Jews "must have come from somewhere and should go back to their homeland, where ever that is" a street interview by Al Jazeera (I think). TV interviews rarely if ever report the mundane and will automatically go for the better headline.

 

Has Israel done anything wrong? yes, though I have a great deal of sympathy for them (there are even now only 50% more than died in the holocaust and considerable fewer than the population of London), they have gone way to far in the past, but it is past, leave it there. Progress will never be made while we keep harping on about who did what, when and where...

 

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

As for the 'expected explosion', it only became 'expected' after Braverman raised the temperature and claimed that the marchers were a 'mob

 again with the extreme interpretation and quite wrong, Confrontations are almost always expected when there are masses of people fuelled on adrenalin and self righteousness, Football an easy example, nothing to do with Braverman using the word 'mob', not even she has that amount of clout. All its done is get her sacked.

 

There so much more but I'm tired now, may be later...

[DJ360 6,730]

Sorry Jim but your last post was far from your usual standard and you've accused me of numerous views I don't hold and statements I've not made.

 

  

23 hours ago, Brew said:

I'm astonished! Hamas have their backs to the wall, IDF killing 000's and you think it understandable not to negotiate a ceasefire?

 

I'm astonished you're astonished.  Where did I say anything about not negotiating a ceasefire?

 

23 hours ago, Brew said:

Are you OK with Hamas sticking to their principles whilst they allow their fellow countryman to die and suffer? Not even a small criticism of the intractability?

 

Of course I'm not.  Where did I say I am?  As far as I'm concerned most Palestinians are just as much victims of Hamas as Israelis are.

 

23 hours ago, Brew said:

Really Col? not that you're biased or anything but but you know that do you? Troops are massacring women and children but giving a free pass to Hamas fighters?

 

A total misreading of what I said.  What I meant was that the IDS is killing thousands of Palestinians.  I have seen nothing to indicate that Hamas is doing the same, though doubtless they are maintaining their control of Palestinian 'administration' by means other than friendly persuasion.

 

23 hours ago, Brew said:

Jews did not start this mess though it seems obvious you have little sympathy for a nation that has suffered  thousands of years of oppression.

 

Again, you are making massive assumptions based on zero evidence.  I've already stated above that I only blame Hamas for the incursion, murders and kidnaps, which of course I wholeheartedly condemn.  However, I'm mystified as to how such a security conscious country as Israel was not able to stop it. Israelis also are asking this of Netanyahu.

 

23 hours ago, Brew said:

There was never a Palestine before 1947/8, or Hamas prior to '87. The Abraham Accord, two Arab nations recognising Israel's right to exist, progress to reconciliation and other less formal agreements now lies in ruins..

It was Iran. India and the former Yugoslavia (1948) that had a solution of a one party state. Israel  agreed, guess who didn't.

Israel only occupied the West Bank after being attacked by the armed forces of six neighbouring states who's avowed intentions were to wipe Israel from the map, yet still they are the bad guys.

 

If I recall correctly, the Balfour Declaration of 1917 called for a Jewish state to be established, but, yes, it didn't happen until 1948.

 

I've not said Israel are 'the bad guys', but their land grabbing and illegal settlements only contribute to unease amongst their allies and even more hatred among their enemies.

 

As I recall Gaza was originally Egyptian, but that Egypt didn't want it back.

 

23 hours ago, Brew said:

Hamas and their ilk have broken virtually every peace agreement and  only hold power in Gaza by force against their own people, but let's not count that they're the good guys.

 

I too am tired, but I think that is now the third time you've misrepresented my views in one post. Nowhere have I described Hamas as anything other than terrorists.

 

23 hours ago, Brew said:

You may stand by the name calling but it only serves to indicated to me Col you are much further left than you believe yourself to be. You cannot claim the right for such expressions yet condemn similar from someone who holds different views to you, and uses slightly less aggressive words to boot.

 

I stand by calling Yaxley Lennon's EDF thugs and similar groups exactly what they are. They are mindless thugs who in any other situation would be spouting their Anti Semitic, Racist tripe, but here they chose to employ their misplaced 'patriotism' to disrupt Armistice Day.  They clearly didn't have the 'bottle' to try to take on 300000 peaceful marchers elsewhere. They are the ones who tried to gain access to the Cenotaph through use of violence against the police.  Yet already today, some are twisting that to make it sound as if it was 'Gaza Marchers'. Read between the lines of Braverman's statement today.

And meanwhile, have a look, and listen, to the 'Counter Protestors' trying to access the Cenotaph.

Make sure your sound is on and listen to their chants.

 

 

 

 

23 hours ago, Brew said:

I also saw the young lady who thought the Jews "must have come from somewhere and should go back to their homeland, where ever that is" a street interview by Al Jazeera (I think). TV interviews rarely if ever report the mundane and will automatically go for the better headline.

 

As I have already said, the bulk of Gaza Marchers were peaceful,and motivated by a desire for peac

but there will always be extremist on both sides.  Frankly she seems more ignorant than extreme, but needs putting straight.  There were some pictures put up on TV News today of Gaza/Palestine marchers making unashamed pro Hamas statements.  They need holding to account.  I'm wondering how many times I have to repeat that I do not support extremists of the left or the right and I do not support terrorists. I'm deeply disappointed that you think otherwise.

 

23 hours ago, Brew said:

again with the extreme interpretation and quite wrong, Confrontations are almost always expected when there are masses of people fuelled on adrenalin and self righteousness, Football an easy example, nothing to do with Braverman using the word 'mob', not even she has that amount of clout. All its done is get her sacked.

 

I disagree. So does half the Tory Party, practically everyone in other parties, significant parts of the press, etc. And as of now it hasn't got her sacked, which brings into even more doubt the suitability of Sunak, who made her Home Sec, after she had been sacked by Truss, for exactly the same sort of inflammatory breach of the ministerial code.

[DJ360 6,730]

P.S.  Do you seriously believe that Michael Gove would wander about alone in the middle of a Demo, by whatever group, yet with cameras conveniently close by?

An obvious put up job, just as Rees-Mogg did when he deliberately and inexplicably brought his son to Parliament and exposed him to anti Brexit protestors, but with the miraculous presence of cameras and a huge police escort.  Totally staged

My new specs are less transparent.

[Brew 5,419]

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

Where did I say anything about not negotiating a ceasefire?

You said Hamas had  their backs to the wall and would not listen, if the call is as you say applicable to both sides then one side not listening would in my mind reasonably be described as a refusal. In this case the call is denied by both.

 

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

Of course I'm not.  Where did I say I am? 

That fellows from the above however the whole tone of you piece seemed pro-Palestine with little sympathy for Israel

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

A total misreading of what I said.  What I meant was that the IDS is killing thousands of Palestinians.  I have seen nothing to indicate that Hamas is doing the same,

 

Again that reads that you have not seen Hamas killing Palestinians (IDS killing Palestinians and Hamas doing the same?), however I think you mean they are not killing Israelis in the same numbers, though they are certainly doing their damnedest to do so. It's more than tragic that non combatants are caught in the fighting. 

 

If I have misinterpreted your post my apologies.

 

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

If I recall correctly, the Balfour Declaration of 1917 called for a Jewish state to be established

There have been many proposals since 1917. but the Arab side proved intransigent at every turn.

 

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

I've not said Israel are 'the bad guys', but their land grabbing and illegal settlements only contribute to unease amongst their allies and even more hatred among their enemies.

 

I did say they have on occasions gone too far, but it rather depends on how much we take historical facts into consideration. They can legitimately claim previous ownership. But that's a big can of worms.

Egypt didn't want it back?   it was never theirs if we look from the time of Herod, Judea, the kingdom of Israel. The diaspora all  stemmed form that time.

They did actually start demolishing some settlements but then the rockets started again.

I did say the past should stay in the past, two wrongs do not make a right.

 

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

However, I'm mystified as to how such a security conscious country as Israel was not able to stop it. Israelis also are asking this of Netanyahu.

 

We have suffered a dozen or more London bombings over the years, were the government to blame for not having sufficient defences against terrorists?

Hamas did not do as the  IDF have done, they gave no warning of the attack, wiped out the security and went to massacre innocents. This was no small incursion of a few dozen, an estimated 3000 fighters broke through the Gaza/Israel barrier. In and area that small it's akin to a full scale invasion.

 

I just think it strange how it was global and the protest so well organised, or why Soros, who called the Holocaust 'the best years of his life' contributed $15 million . This was more than simply commemorating a 

 

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

I disagree. So does half the Tory Party, practically everyone in other parties, significant parts of the press, etc.

 

Perhaps that's part of the problem. Everyone is so scared to voice a real opinion, one that's not couched in ambiguity.

Maybe we need someone to speak out plainly without fear of favour. All sides are at the moment stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Starmer and Sunak are being tarred with the same brush. If all we can do is express opinions that upsets no one then we may as well crawl into a corner now.

No matter what  they're damned if they do, damned if they don't

[mary1947 2,082]

I don't like to comment on Any thing Political  but  

 

Have you ever been to

 

AUSCHWITZ-BIRKENAU

 

If not then GO and see this place

 

I know in an ideal world we should live and let live but this will never happen.

[letsavagoo 963]

Suella Braverman sacked. Next PM?

[benjamin1945 16,160]

She'd make a good one i reckon........

[DJ360 6,730]

Bravernan sacked, and apparently  a reshuffle in progress.

AKA: Rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

 

But..already the conversation  has moved on since Cameron has been spotted in Downing Street. Speculation that he's to be offered Braverman's old job, but he'd need to be given a Peerage.

 

When it comes to candidates for important  jobs, Sunak is in full barrel scraping mode.

[DJ360 6,730]

A little humour from elsewhere on he internet:

 

Quote

From Twitter: “David Cameron isn’t actually a Tory MP, which means he’s okay to be Foreign Secretary but not a presenter on GB News.”

[Brew 5,419]

I don't get it?

 

[DJ360 6,730]

It's just a reference to the number of Tory MPs on GB News 

From memory, McVey and her husband (Phillips?), Johnson, Rees Mogg etc. Cameron wouldn't  qualify, and is unelected, but can hold one of the great offices of state.

[MRS B 521]

The same scenario of course happened with Lord Carrington. At least DC has a portfolio of useful contacts. I hear that Blair is being suggested as a Middle East peacemaker as well?

Good news Col that your boiler is back up and running, bet you’re well cozy now.

[Brew 5,419]

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

It's just a reference to the number of Tory MPs on GB News 

From memory, McVey and her husband (Phillips?), Johnson, Rees Mogg etc. Cameron wouldn't  qualify, and is unelected, but can hold one of the great offices of state.

I've genuinely never seen GB news on TV, no wonder i didn't get it.

--------------

Blair as a Middle East peace maker? Seems somewhat ironic...perhaps he'll co-opt Bush to be his adviser.

[MRS B 521]

Brew, I can’t think of Blair and Bush without the George Michael “Shoot the Dog” music and video. We actually saw the Bush residence on our New England road trip last month. There is even a free 15mins lay-by parking spot for tourists to take photos of it. We of course did !

[DJ360 6,730]

13 hours ago, Brew said:

I've genuinely never seen GB news on TV, no wonder i didn't get it.

 

I've seen bits of it, but I find it nauseating. It's not a News channel, it's a right wing propaganda channel. Almost a sort of 'Daily Mail does Telly'. Other 'notables' on there are Farage (of course..), Arlene Foster, Lee Anderson, Eamonn Holmes etc.  Some are overtly far right, other just seem to be there quite possibly because it's the only broadcast 'Gig' they can get.

Other opinions are available.

[Brew 5,419]

12 hours ago, MRS B said:

Brew, I can’t think of Blair and Bush without the George Michael “Shoot the Dog”

No idea about the music but as someone who once voted for Blair I'm now firmly of the opinion he should be prosecuted not promoted. 

There are howls about Johnson lying to Parliament (quite right too), yet Blair is as guilty, and considering the results possibly more so.

[Brew 5,419]

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Other opinions are available

Had half an hour or so viewing on the PC, mainly the politics. Initial impressions are not quite as disparaging though there is a definite lack of impartiality in the sub-editors straplines

 

GB News looks as though it's TV on a shoestring with much of the editorial taken from other sources. Have not seen a 'face', and the outside broadcast reporting on the kings birthday kept breaking down leaving the two anchors floundering a bit.

I think I'll stay with my usual feeds.

[DJ360 6,730]

As I've  already pointed out, GB'News',  platforms numerous former and currently active piliticians, not just as interviewees, but as presenters.  By far the majority of those are Tory Party members, or from other right wing groups. I found ONE former Labour member in the list of GB staff 

 

Ofcom has rules around 'news' broadcasting. As far as I can tell they concern impartiality, especially in content delivered by politicians who are campaigning for election.

As you might expect, there are numerous  grey areas.

I remember at one point that someone, possibly Ofcom, said that their influence was limited because technically GB 'News', is NOT a news channel

Certainly one former GBNews presenter has said that it isn't really a news channel as its content is 'mostly commentary'.

It seems to me that GBNews deliberately  treads this fine line between genuine 'News' and Propaganda. 

As of now, Ofcom has just ruled on a couple of complaints, criticising it for breaches of impartiality rules, but only really saying 'must do better'.

There are I think at least four other complaints/ cases before Ofcom, with rulings pending.

 

I have enough issues with the BBC, for what I see as mostly sins of omission, but they are paragons of virtue compared to GB 'News'.

 

[DJ360 6,730]

Off the back of the above 

Esther Mc Vey is a currently serving Tory MP who, along with her husband, also a Tory MP, is a presenter on GB News.

She has just been appointed as a minister by Rishi Sunak, with a brief which is being touted as 'Minister for Common Sense'. This in my view is best understood  as a formalisation of Tory 'Culture Wars', surrounding  Tory perceptions of 'woke', gender issues and many other areas of socio- political controversy. As such, it is my view that Mc Veys appointment  boils down to a formalisation  of Tory 'culture wars', at public expense. It is also pretty  clearly a consolation  prize offered  by Sunak to the Tory Right, in the hope of placating them for the loss of their standard bearer. Braverman.

In my view, her appointment  is also clearly part of Sunak's 'positioning' in preparation  for the general election which is due within the next year, and is extremely  dubious, since it does not even attempt to encompass policy, legal precedent etc, and is a purely propaganda/pseudo moralistic move.

[Brew 5,419]

 

Woke  is now reduced to the level of a general insult. You're a protestor - you're woke, you're in favour of lbg - you're woke, You want to save the whale - you're woke. Woke is nothing more than a catch all pejorative term. Ask most what it means and they will say it's an insult. 

 

Braverman has gone but it has to said despite being dangerously authoritarian, she caught the mood of the people in some of the things she said, .

McVey, minister without portfolio is quite frankly a joke. What special talent she brings to the table is beyond me.

She is to tackle the scourge of 'wokery',  Braverman, but wearing kid gloves?

 

GB News claiming to be a commentary service ties in with my view it's content is not original and mostly taken from other sources with the addition of headlines.

 

I've watched PMQ, for the most part it's little more than a well rehearsed pantomime. Starmer lost overall, but in the evading the question competition it was close but he came out on top. What is the point if they can't be made to give direct answers to direct questions?

Not impressed with Lindsay Hoyle...

[Rob.L 1,090]

Why would it be expected/relevant for the Leader of the Opposition to be expected to answer questions at Prime Minister’s Questions?

 

Time and time again, the Speaker has had to remind Sunak that he is there to answer questions, not ask them.

[Brew 5,419]

Fair point though I would expect an answer when a counter point it made. Sunak was mostly replying with carefully prepared answers to questions he knew in advance.

 Hoyle interrupted only twice and did not address Sunak.

[DJ360 6,730]

1 hour ago, Brew said:

Woke  is now reduced to the level of a general insult. You're a protestor - you're woke, you're in favour of lbg - you're woke, You want to save the whale - you're woke. Woke is nothing more than a catch all pejorative term. Ask most what it means and they will say it's an insult. 

 

 

Well yes, sort of. That's what I've been saying on here for a long time, but I believe it goes much further than just an insult. 'Commie', 'Lefty', 'Snowflake' etc. have all been used as general insults in an attempt to belittle genuine views which challenge the 'status quo', 'reactionary' or socio politically conservative views. However whilst you and I know that 'woke' is now used as a general label for any and all challenge, there does genuinely  appear to be an large element of the electorate which actually believes that 'woke' is a conspiracy .  A coordinated 'plot', which should be met by a 'moral panic'.

Like all moral panics that interpretation doesn't  stand even the most casual scrutiny, but so long as it works for them, the Tories will continue to use it.

 

[DJ360 6,730]

Surprised nobody has yet commented on the Supreme  Court ruling that the Govt's plans to 'export' asylum seekers to Rwanda.

 

A couple of points :

By far the most important is that once again we have been shown that the Govt, just like everyone  lse in the country, is subject to the rule of Law. It is that principle which (just about) protects us from Dictatorship.

 

Second point, in my view. Of course we have an immigration  problem, but I'm convinced that the present Govt doesn't want to solve it by for e g., seriously tackling people smugglers, or the huge asylum claims backlog, much less the causes of migration at source. Instead, I firmly believe that they want to keep immigration, alongside their 'woke' fantasy and a few other issues 'front and centre' as they approach the general election. That way, they not only continue to keep a lot of the electorate  'frothing', but also divert attention from their stupendous failures on Public Services, NHS, Education, Housing, Transport, Cost of Living, Criminal Justice, etc , etc ..