Anything Political

[Brew 5,419]

  

12 hours ago, DJ360 said:

I see the Rwanda Bill has passed. We'll see what it actually DOES.,

Whether we agree with it or not at least someone is finally doing something positive and not just bleating about some ill-defined, hodgepodge plan no one, not even the proposers understand.

 

12 hours ago, DJ360 said:

the Tories absolutely cannot defend their appalling record, so they are desperately casting around for other people to blame..  Classic right wing tactics..)

 

Actually that's classic political debate. Every political party regardless will always claim to have an answer to a problem, just as they will always have a reason why it didn't work, and a place, or someone to lay the blame upon. It's not a particularly right-wing gambit.

 

12 hours ago, DJ360 said:

So.. it must be a fact that there are 70000 Civil Servants sitting about on their collective 'butts' doing nothing worthwhile.

It's always been a popular axiom that something easy is "like a job on the council". An urban legend and may not be true but the principle has merit.

Oz is right in many ways, the civil service has always been perceived as suffering from quango's, empire builders and those looking for an easy ride on the gravy train. The officious attitudes of jobsworths in the past still linger giving rise to the present-day stereotype.

 

Some facts. Under Blair there was a rapidly rising civil service peaking at almost 500,000, (2009).

The spending review of 2010 saw a fall of 100,000 over 5 years, far more than the present proposed cut.

It has risen since 2016 to 510,000 and still increasing at a rate of 20,000 a year.

 

More than time for some trimming methinks.

 

12 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Think about it..  If we actually had that situation.. WTF have the Tories been doing for 14 years to allow that to develop?  Especially since Public Services have been falling apart..coincidentally.. for the same period of time..

 

Probably the same as Blair/Brown did during their 13 years in office allowing for a huge rise in the civil service.

 

Cutting costs and budgets is not unprecedented; the Labour government cut the NHS budget even before it was fully established!

Starmer's proposal, whilst not increasing the civil service wage bill, will increase the public sector wage bill by 240,000. The increase in pension payments also coming from the public purse. Labour suggests renationalising the railways, as if that's a top priority.

Evidently, it's deemed more critical than the failing utilities, more pressing than polluting our rivers with untreated sewage, and outrageous price hikes. More urgent than the dilemma of choosing between eating or heating... More important than taking our energy supplies away from foreign control... And it reduces money available for any public spending.

 

Seriously?

 

Labour needs to get their priorities in the right order.

 

Part 3 is just puffery...   

[DJ360 6,730]

11 hours ago, Oztalgian said:

I am talking about the rapid proliferation of "administrators/managers" whose sole aim appears to come up with more ways of having the front-line staff do more reporting and data collecting thus spending less and less time on doing what actually matters.

 

Well I certainly can't disagree too much with that.. having been a victim of it myself.  In my early days in the Careers Service I was required to put in a simple monthly 'stat', detailing how many Guidance Interviews, Groupwork Sessions, Employer Visits etc., I had done.  These were added into whatever reporting was fed back to Central Govt, which was mostly, youth employment/unemployment figures etc. It wasn't an onerous task. I had a caseload of 'schoolies', a section of the 'unemployed' register, a section of the Employer /Training Organisation base and that was it. I was pretty much autonomous most of the time and just got on with the job.  It's true that over time, the amount of detailed info Central Govt demanded, increased exponentially and they seemed to operate on the basis that if there were unemployed youngsters it was because we weren't 'directing' them with sufficient force. Naturally that doesn't sit well witrh someone who is trained in GUIDANCE.. but whatever. All part of Govt. blaming everyone but themselves..

 

But... I'm not sure I could confidently come up with a figure of 30%. I'd also seriously question the notion that sacking off 70000 'Civil Servants' would free up enough cash for a major boost in defence spending. Sensible people will conclude that taxation will not come down..but of course that's not a popular message to Tory voters.

I'd also query what is meant by 'Civil Servants', since many former Civil Service functions have been privatised and many others are chronically understaffed and underfunded.

 

As I said, parts 1,2 and 3 of this latest set of diversions by the Tories are obvious attempts to frame the Tory argument around the usual stuff... just different versions of 'benefit scroungers', 'jobsworth bone idle public employees' and 'them forriners coming ere getting everything free and taking our jobs'.

 

It's NeoCon  'small state anti public service ambitions', victim blaming, jingoism, 'Little Englander' stuff all rolled into one.

[DJ360 6,730]

4 hours ago, Brew said:

It's not a particularly right-wing gambit.

 

I think it is.. because it is wrapped up in 'culture wars', NeoCon economic 'thinking' and all of the rest.

 

4 hours ago, Brew said:

It's always been a popular axiom that something easy is "like a job on the council". An urban legend and may not be true but the principle has merit.

 

If it may not be true, how can the principle have merit?

4 hours ago, Brew said:

The officious attitudes of jobsworths in the past still linger giving rise to the present-day stereotype.

 

Stereotypes are never correct, nor do they bear even superficial examination.

[Rob.L 1,090]

5 hours ago, Brew said:

 

Some facts. Under Blair there was a rapidly rising civil service peaking at almost 500,000, (2009).

The spending review of 2010 saw a fall of 100,000 over 5 years, far more than the present proposed cut.

It has risen since 2016 to 510,000 and still increasing at a rate of 20,000 a year.

I wonder what happened in 2016 that led to them having to recruit lots more civil servants.

[Brew 5,419]

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

If it may not be true, how can the principle have merit?

 

To have merit, or to merit something. To be worthy; of consideration, investigation, attention... Much like saying "there's some truth in it"

 

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

Stereotypes are never correct, nor do they bear even superficial examination.

 

I'm sure you don't need me to explain that stereotypes are over simplified generalised descriptions; but can serve to convey an opinion in short form.

 

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

I think it is.. because it is wrapped up in 'culture wars', NeoCon economic 'thinking' and all of the res

That's just left wing rhetoric...

 

And three non-specific replies reads much like obfuscation and akin to Starmer's  refusal to face facts...

---------------

 

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

'd also query what is meant by 'Civil Servants', since many former Civil Service functions have been privatised and many others are chronically understaffed and underfunded.

 

If so many functions have been moved to the private sector as you suggest, why do we have more civil servants now than at any time in history? and what on earth are they doing?

I'm struggling with your assessment. Spending cuts and fewer services, rising numbers (4% last year), of people to carrying them out - how does that work?

 

The reduction is to be phased over three years, a point the media omit to mention, it's far more dramatic to imply mass sacking.

 

Whilst I have some sympathy for your own personal experience and recognise it is meaningful to you, it is very much limited, localised, and cannot be used as a metric for assessing the whole civil service.

 

From our friendly left wing nedia. the Guardian:

 

"Instead of waiting like martyrs for the axe to fall, civil servants could do something about the appalling culture of wastage...

Sadly, I have often come across people who do a great deal to uphold the cliche that the civil service is bloated and inefficient."

"As someone who regularly defends the public sector and who doesn't want to see Thatcher-like cuts, I have nonetheless become disillusioned by the institutionalised squandering of money in my department, and by the way opportunities to implement Tory-imposed "austerity measures" have been ignored."

[Brew 5,419]

1 hour ago, Rob.L said:

I wonder what happened in 2016 that led to them having to recruit lots more civil servants.

It came about after the 2015 spending review. In 2016 the EU referendum took place when the civil service had the smallest workforce since WW2.

More were needed to prepare for the breakup with the EU - then came covid.

The growth in numbers from there on just never slowed down.

.

[LizzieM 9,510]

2 hours ago, Brew said:

 

The growth in numbers from there on just never slowed down.

And half of them work from home!  

2 hours ago, Brew said:

.

 

[mary1947 2,082]

I have only posted once/twice on this thread.

 

As we have regular people posting maybe you can answer a few questions for me?

 On May 2nd its the day you vote  now we have had leaflets come though our door which say Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire councils are to join forces, they say that the region will be given powers it has not had before with control over a level of funding that will enable long term improvement in the performance of the regional economy of the regional of the prosperity of its people.

Question ? Did anybody ask or vote for them to join together.? not that I know of,

Question wait for it ????? Well I did not know that we had joined the USA we also have got to vote for a local Mayor yes a local Mayor It seems that when it comes to spending OUR MONEY this person will have the final say??? 

Question Will this get our roads repaired ? Now come on don't ask silly questions like that.

Each Party calls the other Party for not doing what the set out to do 

why don't each party stop calling the other one and say honestly what they will do.

One of our Party's say's it's going to clamp down on shoplifting now don't quote me but most people now shop on the internet, (was in Nottm to day there was very few people shopping)They say the other party has broken the criminal justice system? this is the first time I have heard about it.

Retirement is going up again Why don't they start training young people for employment and give them a decent wage? then people who want to retire can and have some life left to enjoy. Not all youngsters want to go on to UNI. To quote yasser Gis a job. 

The NHS could do with a good shake up who ever wins elections? more people are getting older and need help and care THEN GIVE MORE TRAINING TO THESE WORKERS  AND A DECENT WAGE 

Well this is me can you answer any of my questions please without calling any of the other parties?

[Oztalgian 3,296]

Our ex-Prime Minister, Scott Morrison has admitted that he took medication for severe anxiety whilst he was in office.

He explained "how his faith had intersected with his time as leader" (what does that mean) and that the toll of the job had worn on him and that his waves of anxiety had become acute.

As arguably the worst Prime Minister Australia has ever had. I can assure him that he caused endless anxiety to countless millions of Australians who lost their faith in him and his Liberal (Conservative) government with their endless rorts and waste of public money. The deliberate policies of grinding the less well off in our society further into the dirt were nothing short of scandalous. Their automated "Robodebt" debt recovery system and pursuit of people that were alleged to have been overpaid by our social security system was bordering on criminality. He won't get much sympathy from many Australians.

[Stuart.C 491]

Mary, yes there was a consultation to see if the Notts / Derbys residents wanted to join forces and have single East Midlands Mayor.
 

A public consultation on East Midlands devolution, carried out between November 2022 and January 2023, showed strong support for the plans among local residents, businesses and community groups.

 

There were 4,869 responses to the consultation overall, from members of the public and people answering on behalf of an organisation. The number of responses was higher than similar consultations on devolution in other areas.

 

[mary1947 2,082]

Thank you Stuart.C    it must be me as i did not know any thing the consultation. How many people live in Derby / Derbyshire / Nottingham / Nottingham / according to the figure quoted bout 5,000  Don't get me wrong Stuart but I do find it hard to belive that I never heard anything about it.

[Stuart.C 491]

This is what I posted on this Political thread in February this year, Page 125, when the subject came up,,
 

I was aware of talk of proposals for the East Midlands amalgamation and now assume that I must have thought that others, not the residents would be making the decision.

I must have been asleep between November 2022 and Jan 2023 as I don't remember any mention or any contact by anyone or by letter of any link to the consultation website, which I've just found.

Obviously the Have your say section has now been disabled / removed.

https://www.eastmidlandsdevolution.co.uk/

 

(page now completely changed)

 

 

[Brew 5,419]

Read the report fully and it turns out that the vote for an overarching authority of governance and a  single mayor did NOT gain a majority..

The vote was 43% for - 45% against, something they chose to ignore.

 

The hierarchy will be:

 

East Midlands Combined County Authority - 1

The city councils - 2

The county councils - 2

The district/borough councils - 15

The town councils - 351

The parish councils...  ??

 

There will soon be more chiefs than indians.

 

It was mentioned as Stuart says on Pages 110 and 125.

 

My view is that with so few aware and even fewer voting it was not a shining example of the will of the people -  it's just another display of the contempt our leaders have.