Willow wilson 894 Posted March 24, 2020 Report Share Posted March 24, 2020 I like both pieces and so went browsing Bach on YT. I found this Bach gigue on solo violin, it is now my current favourite. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DanielHST 1 Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 It seemed to change music in the 80s https://www.macearchive.org/films/atv-today-20021973-victoria-centre-clock The original rameu tune. https://www.macearchive.org/films/central-news-east-24111983-emett-clock IDK what tune it was. Or was it a tune they put on during xmas season? also the 1973 vid also explains emetts reason of using the rameu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
philmayfield 6,136 Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 It was such a shame that it was moved to the ‘back door’ end of the Victoria Centre. It deserves to be on more prominent display. I’ve not been in for some years now as the parking charges discourage shopping for those of us who don’t have a ‘bus service into Nottingham and all the stuff in there can be bought online anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brew 5,417 Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 A comment from our resident Philistine (me), " I can't tell the difference"!... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jill Sparrow 10,307 Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 I can't get the clips to play so I can't help. Never heard it play anything except the Gigue Fugue. There is a You Tube video of Nottingham at Christmas 1990 which shows it playing something I can't identify but which doesn't sound like Rameau. For some reason, I'm not being allowed to post the link. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DanielHST 1 Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 https://www.macearchive.org/films/central-news-east-24111983-emett-clock it does the same tune in that video so it might be a seasonal change for christmas starting in november Like I said it might have stopped in the 90s or the 2000s Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DanielHST 1 Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 On 2/29/2020 at 5:35 PM, The Engineer said: I was passing yesterday so stopped to check at midday. The bell rang and the music played. However the petals (a few of which now look bent) cycled down-up-down-up throughout the performance and the 'orchestra' (three birds and three squirrels) were not spinning. Looking back in this thread it appears that these faults I observed may have been present for over a year. The cobweb water wheel was turning but several butterflies were not tumbling. All butterflies look tarnished/verdigris. One of the 12 water jets looked a bit blocked. I agree with the sentiment of most (all?) who remember it in the lower atrium. It looks so lost upstairs and I was reminded yesterday how close the three rotating arms at high level come to touching the girders (luck rather than judgement I think). It is coming up for five years since Emma switched it back on (17 June 2015). How time flies. Let's hope it still attracts enough coins to make a difference to the chosen charities. Will you be able to go back and offer your work to move it back to the original location and fix it again? would work better and a new bigger bench frame would be epic when the move happens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Engineer 614 Posted October 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 Sad isn't it? There is no way they will move it back. Even though I gave my time (hundreds of hours) for free they spent something like £75,000 on consultants, architect, surveyor, crane hire, electrical services and tradesmen/materials for the concrete base/GRP liner/glass surround, etc. The Gigue en Rondeau II (composed by Rameau) was the original. The alternative (some sort of wassailing) was used at Christmas. However, that was in the days when the music was on an endless loop cassette tape. All the tapes were lost/damaged (even the Gigue) and the tape deck/amplifier was defunct. It now plays (when it works) from a CD with one track in a midi hifi system (a music teacher in Birmingham played/recorded it to avoid any issue of royalties). Intu could change the music by burning another CD (needs 75 seconds duration IIRC). Pete - the Emett Engineer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff Ton 10,466 Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 As the clock is in the Vic Centre, is it ultimately owned by or under the control of intu ? As intu are currently in administration I assume there won't be much happening with the clock - or anything else there - for quite a while. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stuart.C 491 Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 Intu the holding company are in administration. The various management companies, each centre has it's own, are not in administration. The profitable centres are currently being transferred out of the administrators control. I think it's almost certain the INTU name will disappear, maybe Victoria Centre will be the new name. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Engineer 614 Posted October 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 During my original research I recall reading that Emett gifted the clock to the then owners of the Victoria Centre. Despite administration I suspect the centre and shops will persist, meaning that the ownership of the clock will transfer with all other assets. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jill Sparrow 10,307 Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 The recording of the Gigue it now plays is infinitely better than the original recording which was played at too great a speed and sounded very tinny! A wasssiling song sounds very like what it was playing at Christmas 1990. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DanielHST 1 Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 Ask intu first if you can move it to where it was cause that would be just better. Also the birds and squirrels stopped spinning before the petals raised. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mary1947 2,080 Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 I think the clock is magic, the way it would work, and the way it has been designed, doe's anyone know if there is another clock like it anywhere. It was a shame when they moved it from the main entrance to near the end of Victora Center. How many of us woud meet friends at the clock, After it was moved how many people stopped to look and admire the master piece where they placed it at the end of VC people did not have time to stop and look they were to busy catching there bus, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DanielHST 1 Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 The instrumental tune of Here we come a-wassailing was played at Christmas during cassette times. Also it would be nice if there was a pi based control panel to work with the clock Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Engineer 614 Posted October 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 Raspberry Pi is a credit card sized computer board. They've been around for a few years now. I had indeed contemplated controlling it all from a Pi and even wrote some of the software that it would need (in a popular computer language called Python). It could then be controlled over the Internet and have different music playing at different times/dates. The Pi would play MP3 files and control the starting and stopping of the various motors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonab 1,644 Posted October 16, 2020 Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 I always thought this thing was a total white elephant. Whenever I passed by it was being repaired. There seemed to be more Araldite than original clock. It may have improved - when I was around Nottingham the clock was at the front of Viccy Centre near to Boots and the Parliament St entrance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jill Sparrow 10,307 Posted October 16, 2020 Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 When it first appeared, not knowing anything about Emett, I assumed it was based on a Heath-Robinson drawing. It always seemed to attract crowds. Mainly children. It is years since I was in the Victoria Centre and it probably looks very different now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff Ton 10,466 Posted October 16, 2020 Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 I can remember it in its original (and much more sensible) location. The main advantage of that original position is that as well as seeing it from ground level, it could also be viewed from above, which is probably a better angle. Having said that, in those days I was always underwhelmed by it, because it never did as much as I'd expected it to. I was looking for more dramatic action, bits flying around and zooming off in different directions. The reality was just a few pieces sedately going round in circles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Engineer 614 Posted October 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 Jonab: I don't know about elephant but the frame was white until we had it repainted it in the original 'cockpit green' (as used inside Spitfires and the like). I muse on whether Emett had any RAF contacts after the war who had squirrelled away surplus paint (he had worked for the MoD during the war as a draughtsman working on aircraft parts). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Engineer 614 Posted October 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 Jill: I think Emett was certainly influenced by Heath Robinson. As for looking quite different now, I endeavoured to restore it to as near original as possible. For instance the frame had been 'butchered' on more than one occasion and the legs had been concreted in and cut off twice, reducing the height by a good 18" or so. I documented around 25 pieces of tubing that needed adding to restore to original stature. I liaised with a fabrication welder to get it right. It is not concreted in now (we added circular foot pads). Another attention to detail was the colour of the various glass beads in the butterflies. Each butterfly is unique. I studied old video frame by frame to document the required colours for each (I renewed every one as they had been eroded by the chlorinated water). I was even pedantic about using Imperial nuts and bolts instead of the metric ones that had crept in, even though no-one can see them. If you look at the ring of 12 water spouts in the middle, they had disappeared at some point so I recreated them, again from old video and photographs (I made the petals from plumbing fittings, cutting, shaping and filing as necessary). The mechanical drive for the cobweb wheel had also vanished many years ago, after its motor caught fire. I designed and built a new drive arrangement from scratch to keep the wheel going round. You can see now why I am dismayed if it isn't being looked after. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Engineer 614 Posted October 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 Mary1947: There is a similar clock by Emett in the Eastgate shopping centre in Basildon - I did visit to have a gander some years ago but surprise surprise - it wasn't working! It is called the Cat's Cradle Pussiewillow III and post-dates 'our' clock by around ten years. The clock faces are almost identical and it has the familiar 'cobweb wheel'. The 'sunflower is painted in pastel colours as opposed to our burnished copper. One striking difference is that it is a dry installation - I think Emett learned that water is quite damaging to bright metalwork, especially when chlorinated. Most Emett works are much smaller - he used to tour the country exhibiting them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jill Sparrow 10,307 Posted October 16, 2020 Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 I can quite believe that Emett was heavily influenced by Heath-Robinson. Their work is very similar. I wasn't very clear in that I meant the Victoria Centre probably looks quite different now, not the Water Clock. I haven't been there for years but I can't imagine the clock being anywhere other than its original site. Like CT, I always found it more interesting to view from above, although I always endeavoured not to be in the vicinity when it was about to 'jangle' Rameau. I marvel at your patience and dedication in resurrecting it, Engineer, and I can well understand how much it must irritate and frustrate you that it is not being well cared for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DanielHST 1 Posted October 16, 2020 Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 Raspberry pi is a mini computer with it's own linux distro could work on animation We would like it to be rameu all year like I am used to. The faults begain in 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzWkFuQnzhU but we will have to get a good start on moving it and fixing it's faults Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brew 5,417 Posted October 16, 2020 Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 I've always liked the clock, I saw it when first installed and quite frankly the workmanship left a bit to be desired. It worked but was very 'wobbly', no wonder it took so much looking after. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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